The Frag Cannon, Blood Angels dedicated weapon ?

[Frater Antodeniel]

The 30K Blood Angels Modus Operanti :

 

Strategic Tendencies :

- High Intensity Warfare

- Strategic Decapitation Strikes

- Planetary Interdiction Campaign

- Multi-vector and Sub-orbital attack

 

The High Intensity Warfare tend to explain the use of more brutal weapons, such as the Assault Cannon, the Frag Cannon, and the Autocannon.

 

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More than a concept, it is the style of warfare the Blood Angels use. The Blood Angels Thematic is "Angels/Fallen Angels/Vampire/Berserker/Despair/Hope/Art".

 

It is far more logical to imagine a Blood Angels fight in the Heat of Battle, surronded by the raw sound of Frag Cannons, Assault Cannons, Autocannons, with his comrades fallen from the sky with fury. The perfect counter example, would be the more cold Dark Angels, who use extensive plasma weaponry.

 

Just play a FPS to imagine the sensation that a Blood Angels feel when he is earing the mortal sound of his weapons.

[Quixus]

Isn't high intensity warfare just code for "Send in the marines, the guard can't handle it."?

[Silverson]

I believe that if any weapon suits blood angels more than others it would be the "inferno" weapon (including the melta weapons also as a parent weapon). I see it like this because I see blood angels as a fast moving assault army, where inferno weapons(melta) allow the blood angels to pop vehicles to get to the occupants inside on the charge.

 

looking at our codex I see in the images that the:

captain, librarian, Tycho, Tycho the lost, librarian dreadnought,the techmarine squad picture has 2, the tactical squad, the command squad, sanguinary guard, dreadnought, death company dreadnought, sternguard vetrans, the drop pod immage, land speeder, bike squad, storm raven, devastator squad, land raider redeemer and commander dante all sow models with inferno/melta  weapons prevalent.

 

the reason Assault cannons help us so much is because they are on vehicles (behind our assault units)  which give us supporting fire as we go in. flame weapons/ frag cannons on infantry/vehicles in mass numbers I think go against the blood angels way of war in that they reduce our chance of getting into combat because they require either our assault units to be close enough that we would rather charge anyway, or be on vehicles that would get in the assault units way. 

 

with the furioso dreadnought being the only exception with the frag cannons I think it works because the unit arriving from drop pods needs to clear space and do its damage the turn it arrives to give it a chance of doing anything in the later turns. stearnguard and assault marines in pods can also do mas flamer weapons but the only real reason they are used is for alpha strike and not really a fluff reason in my opinion.

 

TLDR: leave the template weapons to our green brethren and give us better ways of getting enemy vehicles popped so we can face our enemies in hand to hand combat. (or long range artillery for some suppressive fire while we advance.

[Quixus]

 

"The brutal, unsubtle nature of such a weapon perfectly fits the dichotomy that is the nature of the blood angels."

 

You miss the point^^, for such a weapons may be brutal and effective yet very subtle. For Blood Angels are for many weapons artificer, quite the same way as the Salamanders. And, it is expected that such Frag-Weapons use ammunation made with some of the finest material of war. Yes, a big artificer shotgun with shard of adamantium that can pierce throught anything....And more, for the Blood Angels nature, it is well know that Fragmentation weapons make their victims bleed...

 

An artificer weapon with manufactured ammunitions are by far far far more effective than the mass products ones, don't even thing to compare a mass product weapons with an artificer one. Finest material and ammunitions make those weapons the bane of any foe...when a science become an art, it only mean that you are at the top of this science, and many Blood Angels are artist of war. =)

 

Where has it ever said anything about And more, for the Blood Angels nature, it is well know that Fragmentation weapons make their victims bleed.   Im very confused about that concept.  Blood Angels have never to my knowledge cared about making them bleed... Just about killing them close.  

 

Also, blood is tasty why waste it? :devil: (unfortunately there is no vampire smiley)

[Omega-soul]

Why WE should give them our templates when THEY got our  meltas?

 

Moreover - frag-canon  isnot a flamer  weapon - it's a canister shot  with thousands  metal  blades - just like our angelus boltguns with  blood-shard ammo.

 

It fits on SO  many levels to us.

 

1 - It's assault  weapons nuff said - we want to assaut

2 - It's close  combat weapons  - wewant to be close  (on contrary to Sallies)

3 - Hand-type  weapons increase our attacks in close combat

4 - Our devastators will   never use their  blood thirst/FC rule because they never  had assault weapons - now  they can  act like any  blood angels.

5 - Sharp weapons is about spilling blood - and spilling blood is like a red cape for bulls, or taste of blood  for sharks -  it invokes the hunger for upcoming battle

6 - It  have a  nice defensive potential - while we suck miserably being charged - wall of death would be a  nice compensation for our unused faction rules.

 

And even then - Looking at Horus Heresy rules for blood  angels - Our Legion have this magic exchange - any heavy flamer  (on ANY model) can be switched for assault cannon. And while   it's quite impossible for that option  in 40k frag-cannon  could  be that substitute - it's also S6 with rending basicly- but with assault profile  as  we need.

 

This  is the particular reason  why we  don't  really need grav-cannon that much.  It's not assault - and we want to use  our close  combat prowess.

That's  what i think.

[Silverson]

Why WE should give them our templates when THEY got our meltas?

Moreover - frag-canon isnot a flamer weapon - it's a canister shot with thousands metal blades - just like our angelus boltguns with blood-shard ammo.

It fits on SO many levels to us.

1 - It's assault weapons nuff said - we want to assaut

2 - It's close combat weapons - wewant to be close (on contrary to Sallies)

3 - Hand-type weapons increase our attacks in close combat

4 - Our devastators will never use their blood thirst/FC rule because they never had assault weapons - now they can act like any blood angels.

5 - Sharp weapons is about spilling blood - and spilling blood is like a red cape for bulls, or taste of blood for sharks - it invokes the hunger for upcoming battle

6 - It have a nice defensive potential - while we suck miserably being charged - wall of death would be a nice compensation for our unused faction rules.

And even then - Looking at Horus Heresy rules for blood angels - Our Legion have this magic exchange - any heavy flamer (on ANY model) can be switched for assault cannon. And while it's quite impossible for that option in 40k frag-cannon could be that substitute - it's also S6 with rending basicly- but with assault profile as we need.

This is the particular reason why we don't really need grav-cannon that much. It's not assault - and we want to use our close combat prowess.

That's what i think.

frag cannons may shoot differently to flamer weapons but that does not change the fact that they have a weapon profile very similar to flame weapons. (I was only meaning the weapon profile not the fluff behind it when I was comparing the 2)

1. just because it has a weapon type of assault does not make it better at getting our marines into combat.

2. its a close range shooting weapon. we dont want to be close, we want to be in comabt.

3. hand-type weapon increase our attacks in close combat? if you mean pistol then would a pistol version of a frag cannon not be very similar to the hand flamers we have access to at the moment?

4. devistator marines I believe go against the grain of what blood angels want to do as a core (get into assault or be fast). but we remain close to codex compliant and someone needs to pop the vehicles/ suppress the guys our assault marines are charging at.

5. everyones opinion of fluff is different. I dont believe blood angels want to spill blood with shooting to get the red thirst going. I believe the red thirst is what causes them to want to kill the enemy in close combat,

6.it has nice defensive potential?- this does not fit my opinion of how the blood angels see combat. but I do agree we struggle when we don't get the charge.

I haven't got a clue about the horus heresy game but the frag cannon being a replacement for the assault cannon would sound cool if it was not a template weapon and instead an assault x shoots weapon

I think we just see our sons of baal a little different, its good to see other opinions

[Ushtarador]

I really really want those frag cannons on our devastators! :) And a nastier version on our dreadnoughts

[Teetengee]

Of important note, the manportable frag cannon the deathwatch has appears to have a solid shot mode as well.

[Charlo]

Aye, two shot, S6 ap3. Not bad.

[Teetengee]

I thought the slug was S7 AP3? 2 shot

[Charlo]

Maybe. I only saw the profile once and in German for a second :O

[Slips]

Its either:

 

Template, S6 Ap -, Assault 2, Rending

 

Or

 

24", S7 Ap 3, Assault 2.

 

Its a rending Heavy Flamer with no Ap or an Ap3 half-range Autocannon.

[Teetengee]

heavy flamer is only s5  1 shot though, so much better than that against meq

[Quixus]

Its either:

 

Template, S6 Ap -, Assault 2, Rending

 

Or

 

24", S7 Ap 3, Assault 2.

 

Its a rending Heavy Flamer with no Ap or an Ap3 half-range Autocannon.

Where can I find those profiles?

[Slips]

Deathwatch Thread in N&R.

 

It was the German Version or French.

[Arkangilos]

Isn't high intensity warfare just code for "Send in the marines, the guard can't handle it."?

I took it as like a, "never giving the enemy a moment to breath" thing. Basically, an unending, unrelenting, fast and intense assault. Like there is "high impact" which is crazy powerful weapons, and "high intensity" which has more to do with pace.

 

So yeah, high intensity doesn't really mean more powerful weapons, it means a crazy pace.

[Frater Antodeniel]

I was "searching" for some "Flesh Tearers inspiration, when i found the "Global" idea behind "High Intensity Warfare" :

 

In this video, we have a pure Flesh Tearers, named Brother Rambo, explaining the concept :

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL39jJN9hHM