Leviathan Siege Dread tactics

[depthcharge12]

Well the rules are out on the net and the model is likely to be released within the next two weeks. So here's my thoughts:

 

• Grav flux bombard - great anti-TEQ weapon, a strength test on 2d6 (not toughness) at AP2? Anything not S7, read all non primarchs and even some, will be wounded due to the law of averages. Tanks busting is unreliable even at 3d6, so that's a S10-11 hit on average. I think it even suffers against a Spartan flare shield since it's not a haywire attack.

 

• Leviathan Storm Cannon - Great for killing marines and looks freakin sweet, however, do you really need an AP3 weapon on this dread? Seems a bit of a waste considering you could just get a Scorpius for almost a third of the points cost and kill more marines.

 

• Siege Claw - the claaaaaaaaaw :P well it might actually be the best option, as I will mention below the unlikely use of armorbane from trying to go across the board to kill a Spartan or Titan. This weapon reigns supreme when fighting those multi wound terminators, AdMech, and Castellax that seem to pervade most lists. Additional melta gun is icing on the cake.

 

• Siege drill - while seemingly the best choice because of armorbane, I'd shy away from this because there's no solid way of moving the dread quickly up the battlefield to kill its intended target. Spartans will run circles around it, and Titans will likely nuke the dread first turn out of fear. The dread is too slow for this option, but still cool nonetheless. Plus you auto get a melta gun in the claw anyway, and I don't find people taking AC often, so you'd be better off with the claw.

 

**Also, you get two S8 auto hits for HoW not to mention going up to I5. If those two hits, a melta gun, a grav bombard, and S10 hits in cc with a claw can't do it for you, you might need to sacrifice your first born to the dice gods.

 

• Phosphex thingy - yeah buddy. If you've got the points, I'd recommend taking it because it meshes so well with the grav/claw load out with all the AP2 don't give a :cuss about how cool you think you are terminators. Quite possibly you could obliterate a whole terminator squad between this weapon and the grav, with the claw as an insurance policy. If the grav isn't as useful against Castellax, the phosphex will eat them up.

 

 

My ideal load outs:

 

1.) Anti-TEQ/multi wound model "go to" -> Siege Claw, Grav bombard, phosphex, volkite (mostly optional, but gives you 4 shots at 30" since the dang thing is so short ranged) - 310 points

 

2.) Rule of cool/Anti MEQ shredder -> Storm cannon, Claw, volkites, phosphex (if you have points) - 300 points/285 without Phosphex

 

3.) CC destroyer -> if drop pods become available, then this would be a great, cheap load out. 1 fist, 1 claw, phosphex. Gives you versatility in cc as well as ranged. You can double melta someone, or use the phosphex and heavy flamers to obliterate infantry sections. - 290 points plus drop pod

Edited October 18, 2015 by depthcharge12

[helterskelter]

The options are really elites shredder or armour hunter. You forget the rule for double hull point damage. Which if you pull your rolls off is going to be very useful. I'd have claw, grav, and choom in the chest, give it ceramite. If you are feeling particularly saucy give it the phosphex too.

I'd also consider keeping it near a particularly juicy bait unit or direct it at an objective. Pretty certain multiwound elite termie squads are going to be given cause for concern to be charged by this. Two strength 8 hammer of wrath too. It's evil

[depthcharge12]

Yeah sorry my phone is being goofy about updating. My ideal setup would be grav, claw, and the phosphex if I have the points.

 

And obviously take the choom even if only for cool points :)

[helterskelter]

Well its 4 rerollable str 6 shots on your way to the target, which you could point at a rhino or 2 if you didn't take the storm cannon. Or a DG or sallie might leave the flamers on for reasons.

I don't even care about its bad points (I. E.slow) or costs (300pts plus) I just want one in the vain hope it'd be the one battle to plop in front of that unit and watch the carnage.

Edited October 18, 2015 by helterskelter

[depthcharge12]

Well its 4 rerollable str 6 shots on your way to the target, which you could point at a rhino or 2 if you didn't take the storm cannon. Or a DG or sallie might leave the flamers on for reasons.

I don't even care about its bad points (I. E.slow) or costs (300pts plus) I just want one in the vain hope it'd be the one battle to plop in front of that unit and watch the carnage.

I added some more load outs to the OP :) yeah the volkites help with the 30" range.

[Lord Blackwood]

So  do you think it wouldnt work as a knight killer with the two siege drills ? 

[depthcharge12]

So do you think it wouldnt work as a knight killer with the two siege drills ?

It defiantly could, though knights would likely avoid it like the plague. The Lancer on a charge could kill it, and an Acheron could as well if it denies the Levi from charging, but a Castigator would have a hard time. Other knights such as a Paladin or Errant could trash it as well with S:D, but if you get a charge off, you'd be golden. However, I'd assume you'd play against a competent player who wouldn't do something rash to get their Titan killed, and could outmaneuver the Levi.

 

You'd also be handicapping yourself if you take two ccws as you could get nailed by some AT and become immobilized, at which point, you're literally a sitting duck.

 

It's more useful against Primarchs, even those with S10, and other big multi wound baddies.

[Lord Blackwood]

So  Claw > Drill  for sure then , good to know , thanks 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Important to note that you can take a dreadclaw to give it a mobility boost. Expensive and takes a FA slot on top, but it could be really good to panic your opponent with

[depthcharge12]

Important to note that you can take a dreadclaw to give it a mobility boost. Expensive and takes a FA slot on top, but it could be really good to panic your opponent with

I agree, it's also great for obliterating rapier batteries that everyone seems to tote around these days.

 

Considering a rapier platform doesn't even have a strength value as an artillery piece, would the grav bombard auto wound it? I guess it's use majority strength of 4 from the squad, but that's pretty superb.

 

Using a dreadclaw will make it incredibly pricey - however, it makes a rock hard unit drop into enemy lines that your opponent will need to deal with.

 

Ultimately, this unit I'd give an 8 or 9/10 except for its move rate and price. I'd say to only use it in games above 2000 points where the points sink is less noticeable, and there are more big, stompy things for it to kill.

[ninjasuperspy]

Happy to see this thread. I'm excited to grab one of these & see how it does with Dynat's "+1 to Vehicle Damage In the Enemy's Deployment Zone" rule. Now all I've got to do is continuously remind myself of the state of my bench so I don't sell my right arm to grab one off of eBay pre-release...

[depthcharge12]

I'm still tempted to grab the Storm Cannon as it looks awesome - but I seem to have missed that it has Sunder. It'd be perfect for facing off against lighter vehicles that you'll see populate heavier points lists, not to mention being useful against flyers every now and again.

[helterskelter]

Heinrich managed to slot one in to an 1850 list. And the list is pretty solid. However I'm in agreement you will see best use in the 2k+ lists where you can spend the points on turning it into the monster it should be.

Is it too big for zone mortalis? There its speed wouldn't be an issue.

[Slips]

Apparently, it isnt even though it has the same base size as a Deredeo who comes with a "Made Especially for ZM Ops" wargear in the shape of the Antomantic Pavise ( Btw a Deredeo with Plasma and Pavise + a Leviathan walking together = 3++ on the Levi....500+ points though).

 

IIRC theres a limit on 60mm bases being the maximum size allowed for ZM Games. Both being on 80mm's means...yeah.

 

On the Flipside, however, I'd be cool with just letting you run the damn thing since ZM Games are usually 1-1.5k points games and sinking ~300 Into a single dread is enough of a drawback.

[1ncarnadine]

Heinrich managed to slot one in to an 1850 list. And the list is pretty solid. However I'm in agreement you will see best use in the 2k+ lists where you can spend the points on turning it into the monster it should be.

Is it too big for zone mortalis? There its speed wouldn't be an issue.

 

Zone Mortalis calls out Monstrous Creatures on bases larger than 60mm as being illegal, but doesn't say walkers on over 60mm are illegal. Might be ok? 

 

Double-check me, p.169 in HH1: Betrayal. Want to make sure I'm reading that right.

Edited October 19, 2015 by LetsYouDown

[Slips]

 

Heinrich managed to slot one in to an 1850 list. And the list is pretty solid. However I'm in agreement you will see best use in the 2k+ lists where you can spend the points on turning it into the monster it should be.

Is it too big for zone mortalis? There its speed wouldn't be an issue.

 

Zone Mortalis calls out Monstrous Creatures on bases larger than 60mm as being illegal, but doesn't say walkers on over 60mm are illegal. Might be ok? 

 

Double-check me, p.169 in HH1: Betrayal

 

Oh, its only MCs? For some reason I thought it was no Base Size (in general) larger than 60?

[Hesh Kadesh]

Dual Grav Bombard. 310pts, and a complete infantry smasher. Still not sure why a lesser version of the weapon has haywire and that doesn't.

[1ncarnadine]

 

Oh, its only MCs? For some reason I thought it was no Base Size (in general) larger than 60?

 

 

Yeah, that's what I thought until I looked it up. Someone on h30k talked to Andy Hoare about running the Leviathan in ZM and he said no because 80mm, but now I can't find where Walkers are disallowed by base size? Feels like I'm missing something. Maybe a RAI vs RAW thing that hasn't come up until now, or I'm just dumb and can't find the entry.

 

Dual Grav Bombard. 310pts, and a complete infantry smasher. Still not sure why a lesser version of the weapon has haywire and that doesn't.

 

Run with the phosphex launcher and even if they don't die horribly, you've potentially created a ridiculously large barrier of dangerous terrain. It's the load-out I've been looking at the most (plus shredding flamers, XIVth all the way). 

 

What if it did have haywire too though? Double hull-point damage haywire plus a 3d6 pen roll on top? Owwww

Edited October 19, 2015 by LetsYouDown

[Hesh Kadesh]

Would need a slight improvement.

 

Consider the knight level weapon has a Vortex on a 6, how about Haywire and deals 2HP on a Penetrating hit. That way a Dual Grav Bombard ia still the Anti Infantry Weapon, but thanks to an AP2 Haywire hit, it is capable of crushing vehicles.

 

Haywire replaces the normal penetration roll; maybe roll 2 dice for haywire and choose the highest as a pseudo ordnance piece of kit.

[Flint13]

That thing is going to be super nasty if it makes it into combat. 

 

That's the problem I'm seeing though. It's slightly more sturdy than a normal contemptor, but every gun ever is going to pound it into scrap if it doesn't come out of a pod.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm totally going to by one b/c its XII as hell, but I dunno how much table time he'll see. Costing 9/10s as much as a Spartan is a bit of a hard sell no matter how cool he is (which is incredibly).

[Marshal Reinhard]

Definately getting one of these. Thing is I'm thinking I'd want to be able to field mine in both HH and 40k, so that'd dictate it's armaments somewhat. Cannons, Claw, flamers and phosphex thingy (becomes HK's in 40k), still a viable loadout? In HH i use Fist legion rules.

[Charlo]

I think Phosphex and twin storm cannons plus Volkite could be fun. Just dakka all over the place. Walk forward and watch the enemy infantry cry.

[Flint13]

^ I was just thinking that.

 

The more I go over the options, the better using it as a fire platform for hella dakka looks. Maybe that's the best way to mitigate it's glacial dreadnought pace? I mean, Deredeos are slow as hell too, but no one complains about that :d

[Hesh Kadesh]

Combine a pair if Leviathan Dakkadakkas with a Typhon to leave no escape. Use Grav Cannons and pod Dreads to AT duties.

[Charlo]

I think as well it's not much more effective in combat than a normal dread. It's more survivable but massed Melta bombs, chain Fists etc will still bring it down. You'd want it against multi wound models, but these are the ones who usually posses such anti armour prowess in combat...

 

S7 ap3 and sunder is very powerful, especially at 12 shots! Backed up by Choom it's a walking firebase.

 

Very DG & IW if you ask me ;)