Phubar Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Hi all, simple question about a single specific argument: guardsmen in open ground ih front of a leman russ give cover to it? Yes/No. Why? Tnx all! Edited for typing mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsev Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 If 25% of the front facing of the tank is 'hidden' yeap cover if not nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kontakt Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Your Question is not as simple as it seems. I will explain as best I can, I am sure the others can fill in anything I miss. Before I can say yes or no, there are two questions you must answer: 1. Are the models in between the firing model and the model being targeted? 2. Is the hull of the vehicle 25% or more obscured by terrain/models. If they are firing through the squad of guardsmen in order to hit something else, then the obscured target (leman russ in this case) will recieve a 5+ cover save. Edit: This does not seem to apply to vehicles. See page 77 in the rulebook. If the troops/terrain obscures the vehicle by 25% or more, the vehicle will receive a 4+ cover save. The only other thing I would note is to remember that area terrain has no effect on vehicle cover, the vehicle must be literally obscured. Hope this explanation helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Guardsmen aren't that tall compared to our tanks, so they will only provide that 25% cover if the enemy is shooting from quite close to the soldiers. As such its not something to rely on unless you get get up in their faces so realistically that'll usually just be melta weaponry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Most of the time, from my experience, they will. 25% is relatively easy to accomplish and this is why Conscripts are a thing. Pack them nice and densely and you'll likely have it. The big worry will be elevated shooters. The new perspective blows it for the cover since they see the target differently now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW1 Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 This is where Bullgryns come into their own. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morroccomole Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Camo netting and cover camping will be your friend more than model saves will be. I'll use the two extremes for an example. One, you are tank heavy, and only have the bare minimum of two vet squads. You don't want those two obsec squads to be cannon fodder, so quick elimination of the foe's AT capabilities are your top priority, usually meaning that your tanks are going to be aggressive and not caring about cover saves (as much.)Two, you play a footslog list, with a couple of tanks. Odds are, if you play like I do, you bring some longer range tank weapons, to support your glorious infantry advance. In this case, I auto-include camo netting and park the Russ' in cover for the duration of the fighting, only bringing them out to do mopping up on turns 4-5.That being said, my enemies getting in the way of themselves has given my tanks more cover saves than anything. If you can threaten with your infantry advances in the right spot, you can force your enemy into unfavorable lanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phubar Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 Tnx all for your answers but my question is not about when a LR can have cover but if guardsmen are tall enough to grant cover to him in plain terrain (assuming that the firers are at the same level of LR an guards). Because i think yes but my mates say no :) I love 40k for the infinite ways that a rule can be applied! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Your question has been answered: they can provide cover but it depends on the origin of the attack as the game uses true line of sight. The 25% rule applies no matter how the cover is achieved - be it wall, another tank or infantry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phubar Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 But interveining model rule says that cover is not granted if the shots fly over the unit so shots fired on the vehicle part above guardsmen head are not affected by them. So if the remaining part of the LR is more than 75% it will not gain cover. This is our interpretation if the rule of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Yes, that's why we've mentioned true line of sight as that's what decides how much can be seen/is in cover. If the firing model is close enough then it is possible the Guardsmen will provide a cover save but only if they obscure 25% or more from the shooter's perspective using true line of sight. As mentioned it is possible but very unlikely due to the size difference - Leman Russ tanks are very tall compared to a Guardsman. Ogryns are much taller (almost as tall as a Chimera) so would have a much better chance of granting cover for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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