Black Book - Insurrection (PUBLISHED)

[Skalpynock]

Finally, Skal, I was thinking on the chapter quote and became enamored with the idea of Yuchau giving the quote. In-story, he offers a unique perspective as a neutral party but has brothers on both sides of the debate. From a meta perspective, it's a nice in-joke to have a quote from Yuchau since Kozja is the focus of the chapter and you've created both of these primarchs. The quote itself doesn't have to be anything incredibly inspirational, could just be an observation.

 

"The Baal judgement put into light all that is wrong with my 'brothers'. For creatures built for war, they spent much on petty squabbling over irrelevant details, rather than crusading. Pursuing anything else will only lead to a loss in the Crusade's momentum, until it eventually comes to a stop." -Yucahu*, primarch of the Void Eagles

 

*Which you seem to be consistently misspelling 

 

And yeah, I agree that our setting is darker. The Drowned and Berserkers would make the Night Lords and World Eaters bow in shame. Rather than a few Terata/Chymaerae and "accidents", gene-horrors are a commonplace weapon. Loyalty is more blurred, with some legions switching sides during the Insurrection and the Wardens of Light's initial neutrality, while several other are broken apart. Even among those who are still loyal to the Emperor and Warmaster, we have the Eagles whose vision of "loyalty" is "completely razing planets", and the Lions/Wolves/Bears of whom we already have spoken. A while ago I remember someone mentioning that post-insurrection, the only primarchs left to rebuild the Imperium are the warriors who aren't as versed in politicking as, say, Guilliman or Vulkan (that doesn't account for the ex-Revolutionaries, but we aren't there yet). 

I guess that was bound to happen, when all our legion had originally to be purged.

[Chief Captain Redd]

That's whole reason Daer'dd is killed he's targeted by Icarion because he was one of the few with the right set of skills to hold the Imperium together if The Emperor and Alexandros are assassinated.

[simison]

Yucahu, Yucahu, Yucahu.

 

Sorry about that. My eyes saw it the other way, and I've been stuck seeing it spelled that way.

[simison]

Alright, still waiting to see if anyone wants to take up the 2 red sections, but, in the meantime, I've updated our progress report.

 

The Prosecution chapter, complete with its new quote, is essentially waiting to be turned into PDF pages. 

 

I'd like to repeat, 6 legions are featured in this book, and anyone of them can ask me for brainstorming, writing, editing, etc at any point of time. They are still priority #1.

 

Until someone takes me up on that offer, I'm shifting from Alpha to Beta stage. The target: the Madrigal Purge. Although it is the first battle in the book, it is not the first one chronologically. To recap what we have so far, Icarion ensures that the 17th Expeditionary Fleet comes to Madrigal seeking to rally Loyalist forces, only for Icarion to declare his Insurrection and make a recruitment offer. The fleet is commanded by Pyrrhicles who promptly rejects the offer and attempts to flee the system. Unfortunately for him, his fleet is in chaos as his lieutenant, Citadel Malis, is persuaded and tries to subvert Pyrrhicles and the other Wardens to switch sides. Icarion attacks, Pyrrhicles dies, and the fleet is half destroyed while the other half submit to Icarion's leadership.

 

Athrawes, as you can imagine, I'm seeing this as a naval engagement with the main focus on boarding operations. At this point, Icarion is still more Idealist than Corrupted, so I see him making an effort to minimize casualties. Minimize, in this case, means slaying all of the die-hard Loyalists, capturing the undecided, and protecting the new insurrectionists. Every Warden turncoat is both a symbolic and a military victory over the Loyalists, while capturing warships is a far better prize than simply destroying them. 

 

A few questions:

1. Although the Order of the Shield makes up most of the 17th complement, there are still a number of Vraben which will include some diviners. Most of them are still reeling from the Insurrection's storm, but a few of them will recognize the threat Icarion poses after entering the system. Do the Lightning Bearers have a method or a way to at least muffle the visions of their true loyalty? Depending on that answer, the 17th fleet will either be anywhere from the edge of the Madrigal system to right next to the planet?

 

2. Tied to the divination question, how does Icarion arrange his fleet? 

 

3. Does Icarion manage everything from afar or does he take direct action in this battle? 

 

While I wait, I'm going to start reading through the canon campaigns and get an idea of what's needed. I suspect I'll need to start making a list of key units and commanders. I have Pyrrhicles and Malis, but that's just a start. 

[Hesh Kadesh]

Edit; wip

[Sigismund229]

If no one else is willing to, I'll take up the red section on oceanic warfare. If I end up doing it, I make no promises about how soon it will come.

[simison]

If no one else is willing to, I'll take up the red section on oceanic warfare. If I end up doing it, I make no promises about how soon it will come.

 

 

That's fair. I'm just trying to shift some of the burden off my shoulders. 

[Sigismund229]

Heres the beginning of the red section on underwater war. Just wanted to check if it sounds ok to everyone?

The Legiones Astartes were designed to be the ultimate warriors, the final word in the vast melee that was the universe as the Emperor united Terra and launched the Great Crusade. He recognised that, in order to fulfill its' destiny as the sole occupant of the galaxy, mankind had to be stronger than all the xenos races it encountered in the vast expanse of space. So it was that the Astartes came into being, stronger and faster than the teeming hordes of humanity but still close enough to them to be human. The Astartes were built to excel in all fields of war, their bodies gene forged to withstand the heat of battle. However, while the exploits of the Halycon Wardens and Lightning Bearers on land and in the void are celebrated with statues and epics across the Imperium, very little attention has been paid to the battlefields of the oceans, arguably the most testing of any field of war. It is in the murky depths of the oceans that the Drowned and Scions Hospitaller do battle, eradicating the horrors that lurk there and making those waters safe for human settlement. While many of my fellow remembrencers chose to join those legions such as the Halycon Wardens, Lightning Bearers or Void Eagles, heroes whose deeds are celebrated daily, I myself chose to join the XVI, the Drowned. While they were reserved at first, they have gradually become more forthcoming with their accounts of wars fought in the deep places of countless ocean worlds, to such an extent that I have compiled this manuscript on the dangers and unique challenges presented by oceanic warfare.

 

From what I can glean from those of the Drowned I have talked to, war in the oceans is a far more brutal and unforgiving form of conflict than any practised on land, one in which mercy is a ludicrous fantasy and the province of madmen, making chivalrous acts such as those frequently enacted by the Halycon Wardens an impossibility. It is perhaps for this reason that the wars waged under the waves have received so little recognition, they are, by their very nature, merciless and brutal affairs, with few acts of heroism or glory occuring. In oceanic warfare, you can only have one goal: the complete and utter destruction of your enemy in as merciless and efficient a fashion as possible. In addition to this, ranged combat is another impossibility of under water combat, due to how water slows down any bullets fired through it and degrades the efficiency of ranged weapons used under water, as it gets inside them and rusts their mechanisms. This makes prolonged engagement an impossibility and as a consequence much of the combat that takes place in the oceans consists of the two sides stalking each other and trying to put themselves in the position of greatest advantage before engaging in a short, sharp combat which sometimes lasts mere seconds before the two sides break off and the process of stalking begins again. In these short engagements, the two sides aim to inflict maximum damage on their opponents, either by killing them outright or by severing a vital artery, or cracking their protection and leaving the pressure of the water to do the rest.

[Athrawes]

I had imagined that the Wardens would be seeking shelter and aid from Icarion and the Lightning Bearers, as madrigal would be the 'closest loyal port' in their eyes. 

 

That said, I think to keep the situation from raising too many red flags to the loyalists that Icarion would keep them at arms length, maybe having their fleet hold position around Akira.

 

As for Your legion's diviners, sensing something is up. I'm unsure. I honestly don't think they should be aware that anything is really wrong with Icarion or the Lightning Bearers until icarion reveals himself and makes his demands. I'm not sure we need any specific mention of Diviners getting bad feelings about the Lightning bearers, I mean their dealing with another powerful psychic legion, not to mention that the warp is undoubtably clouded, with the betrayal underway. It's not too hard to imagine that the Wardens would be going into this situation precognitively blind. That is honestly part of the reason they are seeking out Icarion in the first place. To your Wardens, they can't see anything, and don't know who to trust. In their eyes, short of Alexandros, Icarion is the one Primarch who they are certain will aid them. Obviously, that turns out tragically for many of them.

 

At this point in the war, the Lightning Bearers fleet would have been consolidated in Icarion's Realm, as the first strikes of the Insurrection would have been carried out at the hands of Icarion's subordinates. Akira is the Shipyard and 2nd largest anchorage in the Sphere soul it would have a sizable fleet presence and orbital defenses. That Said, I would imagine that Icarion would have dispatched most of his fleets to the far edges of his Empire, as his main goal it to convert the Wardens, not destroy them. 

 

I'm not certain whether Icarion would manage this fight personally or hand it over to one of his lieutenants. My gut says that Icarion oversees the initial offer to the wardens, and sets the Lightning Bearers in motion once he is rejected, and then he would hand control of the fleet over to one of his Sentinels, probably Susanoo Empyon, who is sort Icarion's first captain.

 

All that said, I'm open to suggestions on any of this.

[Slips]

@Siggy: I'd probably make mention of "Beam" Weapons being the only Semi-Reliable form of Ranged Weaponry such as Melta and Volkite. An Argument could be made for Plasma but they're still a physically projected....projectile. Theres also the concern that the Water Pressure might make the Magnetic Field around the Plasma Collapse or have the water conduct too much of the Energy and render the final impact a proverbial wet noodle.

 

Granted, I dont really know the science behind this so if someone is in a more educated position, feel free to correct. This is just how I'd view it.

 

In short, it would keep the Engagements as close, brutal affairs with a very limited arsenal of ranged weaponry at the disposal of the Marines.

[Hesh Kadesh]

That's a point, we need to come up with some rules for it... How about;

 

Dangerous Environs; All terrain is considered to be both difficult and dangerous terrain, and run moves may never be taken. Any successful Initiative Tests taken must be rerolled. Models with the Slow and Purposeful special rule roll one extra dice when charging and discard the highest. Terrain already classified as difficult terrain rolls an additional dice and selects the lowest, while terrain already classified as dangerous must reroll any successful roll. Models and units containing one or more models with Move Through Cover special rule do not gain any of the normal benefits normally associated with it although they do not suffer any of the above noted effects associated with the Dangerous Environs special rule.

 

Limited Ranged Effectiveness; Any non Laser, Volkite, or Melta based ranged weapon has their maximum range reduced by 1/3rd, rounding down to a minimum of 1". This has no effect on Psychic Powers or Witchfires, or from shooting attacks made by a model with the Daemon special rule. Flamer weapons and other heat based attacks (such as Volkite, Melta, and Plasma etc) can be modified to work underwater but have their strength reduced by 1. This has no effect on Meltabombs.

 

Battles in the Dark; Battles taking place in the deepest darkest depths of the oceans, and as such are always considered to be under the effects of Night Fighting. All vehicles with the option to take a Searchlight may take one for free (even if they'd otherwise need to purchase one). Any other vehicle, artillery carriage or character may purchase a Searchlight for +5pts. Any template left as a result of the Lingering Death special rule counts as lighting up everywhere within 3" of the template as if under the effects of a Searchlight, although it doesn't affect the firing model. 

 

The Cold Depths; fighting in oceans is very similar to fighting in the depths of space. The Cold Void special rule is always in play. In addition, if a weapon fails a Get's Hot! special rule, no roll to wound is failed. However, for all other purposes, the weapon is still considered to have suffered a "Gets Hot". In addition, any attack with the Blast type also gets the Shred special rule (or +1 Strength if they already have Shred) as a result of explosive shockwave being more dangerous in an area where pressure cannot disippate as easily. Any Toughness tests taken for Graviton Collapse and Graviton Pulse must be rerolled if successful.

 

Environmental Adaptations; While fighting in a world's oceans is an a niche application of a legions might, it is assumed that the models chosen are all adapted specifically to operating in the enviroment. As such, no unit options are banned as a result of fighting this type of battle unless otherwise mentioned. However, as an alternative option, which you should agree with your opponent(s) prior to the game could allow for operations may operate above the sea floor, in which, no model without the Jump Infantry, Jetpack Infantry, Flying Monstrous Creature, Flying Gargantuan Creature, Skimmer, or Flyer unit type may be taken.

 

Sigismund, I like what you've done mate :)

[Slips]

I kinda want to make a Flooded Installation ZM Rules-Thing

 

Also, thoughts on limiting Barrage Weapons? Doesn't make much sense to have weapons that require Ballistic Arcs to function.

 

Also, good thing I made the Phaeton-Pattern Storm Eagles Submersibles....at least, in their Fluff ;

[Hesh Kadesh]

Ooh, that's easier to manage.

 

There is the "Catastrophic Damage-Blood in teh Void" special rule which we could use to represent areas becoming drowned. (no pun intended). Maybe rename it slightly?

 

"2-5 Infrastructure Holds"

"6-7 Short Circuiting"

"8-9 Buckling"

"10 Hull Breach"

"11 Critical Hull Breach"

"12 Terminal Hull Failure"

 

Here's a thought - for our first engagement/Legendary battle - Morro attempting to assassinate Pionus in a ZM, to which a further lets say 1250pts are added (maybe 1000 for Scions), because Pionus' objective is to escape, to a hangar to where an immobile (gamewise) Phaeton (or Storm Eagle for none Scions recreation) awaits. The Hangar is teleport shielded to protect from a Teleport assault, but Scions cannot Deep Strike and go second. Aware of the danger, and the risk of something like a Recon Squad infiltrating with a Phase Field Generator/Devastation Drones meltabombing the Storm Eagle second turn, the Storm Eagle could have the ability to overwatch/reactionary fire.

 

Attackers (Drowned) Win if Defenders (Scions) Primarch is killed, Defenders win if their Primarch boards the Storm Eagle.

 

Attackers get Shock and Awe and free Void Hardened Armour on all units for free, Defenders get Security Airlocks, and a Voidsman unit in the Hangar.

 

And in the Catastrophic Damage-Blood in the Void Table, each turn adds a cumulative +1 to the count, starting from turn 1; so turn 2, when you start rolling, there's a +2 to the roll. 

[simison]

Sigismund, that's an excellent start, I love the direction, and, being brutally honest, appreciate the Warden mentions. I'm not sure how much more you planned, but feel free to be short enough to the point of adding only a concluding paragraph. Once you've finished, I'll give it a run-through. 

 

Well, to be fair, we are entering uncharted territory, Athrawes. As far as I know, no one in BL, GW, or FW has ever had a divination battle between two sides which specialize in it. I thought some Vraben may have some kind of advanced warning since galactic-shattering events often cause outward ripples in visions and portents. So, I figured it wouldn't be unreasonable for one or two Warden diviners to be on edge as the fleet enters the system. Now, they'll obviously fail to save the fleet, but perhaps one or two Warden vessels may successfully flee because of their diligence. 

 

As for Icarion, it's your call. Obviously, it'd be very cinematic if Icarion is the one who strikes Pyrrhicles down, but, as an ironic reflection of Warmaster Alex, there's a certain appeal to Icarion directing things from afar. Written correctly, it helps establish how truly enormous it would be to organize a rebellion against the Imperium if he can't spare any more time than he needs on this battle. My only reservation is that it feels weird to have Icarion's stats shown in this book, but to never have a battle (legendary or otherwise) where he shows up. Again, your call.

[Athrawes]

Hmm, well I had originally thought that Icarion Lets a few of the Loyalist Wardens escape in order to bring Icarions message back to Alexandros, as Icarion still would rather recruit him than kill him. I would Imagine that having to fight and keep the Ghost Crusade a secret would breed a certain control into the Lightning Bearers, they certainly wouldn't want to broadcast their actions their brother Legions even while they were loyal, it's part of what added to the Mystique and aloofness of the Lightning Bearers. Plus I think it might be cool to write about psychic counter intelligence, broadcasting fake images and messages psychically to overwhelm/disorient would be opponents.

 

 

 

Well, I'm sure there will be time for Icarion to fight during the Insurrection, but by comparison, neither Horus nor Fulgrim fought on Istavaan III, yet their Profiles are given in book 1. 

 

Dorn wasn't even properly in book 3, but his stats were given as well.

 

So I think it would be safe to er on the side of having Icarion's 1st Sentinel duel and take down Pyrrhicles. 

[Sigismund229]

Finished the Red Page. Firstly, Simison os it long enough? Secondly, jow does it sound as a representation of the wars your legions specialise in Hesh and Slips?

The Legiones Astartes were designed to be the ultimate warriors, the final word in the vast melee that was the universe as the Emperor united Terra and launched the Great Crusade. He recognised that, in order to fulfill its' destiny as the sole occupant of the galaxy, mankind had to be stronger than all the xenos races it encountered in the vast expanse of space. So it was that the Astartes came into being, stronger and faster than the teeming hordes of humanity but still close enough to them to be human. The Astartes were built to excel in all fields of war, their bodies gene forged to withstand the heat of battle. However, while the exploits of the Halycon Wardens and Lightning Bearers on land and in the void are celebrated with statues and epics across the Imperium, very little attention has been paid to the battlefields of the oceans, arguably the most testing of any field of war. It is in the murky depths of the oceans that the Drowned and Scions Hospitaller do battle, eradicating the horrors that lurk there and making those waters safe for human settlement. While many of my fellow remembrencers chose to join those legions such as the Halycon Wardens, Lightning Bearers or Void Eagles, heroes whose deeds are celebrated daily, I myself chose to join the XVI, the Drowned. While they were reserved at first, they have gradually become more forthcoming with their accounts of wars fought in the deep places of countless ocean worlds, to such an extent that I have compiled this manuscript on the dangers and unique challenges presented by oceanic warfare.

 

From what I can glean from those of the Drowned I have talked to, war in the oceans is a far more brutal and unforgiving form of conflict than any practised on land, one in which mercy is a ludicrous fantasy and the province of madmen, making chivalrous acts such as those frequently enacted by the Halycon Wardens an impossibility. It is perhaps for this reason that the wars waged under the waves have received so little recognition, they are, by their very nature, merciless and brutal affairs, with few acts of heroism or glory occuring. In oceanic warfare, you can only have one goal: the complete and utter destruction of your enemy in as merciless and efficient a fashion as possible. In addition to this, ranged combat is another impossibility of under water combat, due to how water slows down any bullets fired through it and degrades the efficiency of ranged weapons used under water, as it gets inside them and rusts their mechanisms. This makes prolonged engagement an impossibility and as a consequence much of the combat that takes place in the oceans consists of the two sides stalking each other and trying to put themselves in the position of greatest advantage before engaging in a short, sharp combat which sometimes lasts mere seconds before the two sides break off and the process of stalking begins again. In these short engagements, the two sides aim to inflict maximum damage on their opponents, either by killing them outright or by severing a vital artery, or cracking their protection and leaving the pressure of the water to do the rest. The only exception to this are those who use beam weapons, melta's and volkite chargers being but two for under the oceans, their effectiveness not only doesn't decrease but in fact grows due to the short range everyone other ranged weapon gets reduced to. A side utilising beam weaponry is able to snipe its foes from a relatively large distance, reducing them in numbers and breaking down their morale before moving in to finish them in close quarters. However, even these weapons aren't 100% effective in the galaxy's oceans as, if the marines don't take care to seal their weapons completely after firing, then water soon gets inside, rusting the firing mechanism and making the weapon useless as anything but a club(although I have heard that this is some of the Drowned's preferred use for them even when working).

 

An increased difficulty of aquatic war is lack of effective transport other than ones own two feet. Due to the close range nature of aquatic war, many of the Drowned believe that transports are a wasted hunk of metal, too easily ambushed and too visible to be of much use to them as they hunt in the depths. I've also heard that the Scions lay down compact, portable fortresses on the sea bed, containing hangars, apothacerions and supply dumps. From these fortresses, they push out and destroy any enemies found in the area before laying down another fortress and moving on.

As I hope I have conveyed, those wars fought in the galaxies oceans deserve as much if not more recognition than those fought in the void or on land. In the oceans, war is a brutal, attritional afair, a matter of how long an armies morale and strength will hold, as they hunt their foes in an ever changing and ever more deadly game of cat and mouse in which there is no room for mercy and the only possible outcome is the death of one protagonist or the other.

[Slips]

I'm cool with it!

[simison]

Fair points, Athrawes. Alright, so Icarion is there at the start, but doesn't make a personal appearance. The Warden fleet enters the system and is directed to Akira, where the Bearer fleet is along with nearby orbital defences. Icarion makes his offer, which Pyrrhicles rejects, but Malis and a rogue faction within the Order accepts. Pyrrhicles orders a full retreat and attempts to get the Wardens out of the system, but around a third of the Warden fleet is paralyzed or has already switched sides. The Chosen Sentinel leads the Bearer fleet to engage the Loyalist Wardens, opting to let a few ships go but trying to capture and 'liberate' as many vessels as he can. Toward the end of the battle, the Sentinel boards Pyrrhicle's ship and ends the Paragon's last stand. How does that sound as a general outline? 

 

Excellent work, Sigismund! I caught a couple of errors, so I'll do an editing job, and then it'll be ready for Grifft.

[simison]

Battlefields without Mercy

The Legiones Astartes were designed to be the ultimate warriors, the final word in the vast melee that was the universe as the Emperor united Terra and launched the Great Crusade. He recognised that, in order to fulfill its' destiny as the sole occupant of the galaxy, mankind had to be stronger than all the xenos races it encountered in the vast expanse of space. So it was that the Astartes came into being, stronger and faster than the teeming hordes of humanity but still recognizably human. The Astartes were built to excel in all fields of war, their bodies gene forged to withstand the heat of battle. However, while the exploits of the Halycon Wardens and Lightning Bearers on land and in the void are celebrated with statues and epics across the Imperium, very little attention has been paid to the battlefields of the oceans, arguably the most testing of any field of war. It is in the murky depths of the oceans that the Drowned and Scions Hospitaller do battle, eradicating the horrors that lurk there and making those waters safe for human settlement. While many of my fellow remembrencers chose to join those legions such as the Halycon Wardens, Lightning Bearers or Void Eagles, heroes whose deeds are celebrated daily, I myself chose to join the XVI, the Drowned. While they were reserved at first, they have gradually become more forthcoming with their accounts of wars fought in the deep places of countless ocean worlds, to such an extent that I have compiled this manuscript on the dangers and unique challenges presented by oceanic warfare. 

From what I can glean from those of the Drowned I have talked to, war in the oceans is a far more brutal and unforgiving form of conflict than any practised on land, one in which mercy is a ludicrous fantasy and the province of madmen, making chivalrous acts such as those frequently enacted by the Halycon Wardens an impossibility. It is perhaps for this reason that the wars waged under the waves have received so little recognition, they are, by their very nature, merciless and brutal affairs with few acts of heroism or glory occuring. In oceanic warfare, you can only have one goal: the complete and utter destruction of your enemy in as merciless and efficient a fashion as possible. In addition to this, ranged combat is another unrealistic tactic of under water combat, due to how water slows down any bullets fired through it and degrades the efficiency of ranged weapons used under water, as it gets infiltrates weapon systems and rusts their mechanisms. This makes prolonged engagement an impossibility and, as a consequence, much of the combat that takes place in the oceans consists of the two sides stalking each other and trying to put themselves in the position of greatest advantage before engaging in a short, sharp combat which sometimes lasts mere seconds before the two sides break off and the process of stalking begins again. In these short engagements, the two sides aim to inflict maximum damage on their opponents, either by killing them outright or by severing a vital artery, or cracking their protection and leaving the pressure of the water to do the rest. The only exception to this are those who use beam weapons, melta's and volkite chargers being but two weapons for under the waves, their effectiveness not only doesn't weaken but in fact grows due to the short range everyone is reduced to. A force utilising beam weaponry is able to snipe its foes from a relatively large distance, reducing them in numbers and breaking down their morale before moving in to finish them in close quarters. However, even these weapons aren't 100% effective in the galaxy's oceans as, if the marines don't take care to seal their weapons completely after firing, then water soon gets inside, ruining the firing mechanism and making the weapon useless as anything but a club (although I have heard that this is some of the Drowned's preferred use for them even when working). 

An increased difficulty of aquatic war is lack of effective transport other than ones own two feet. Due to the close range nature of aquatic war, many of the Drowned believe that transports are a wasted hunk of metal, too easily ambushed and too visible to be of much use to them as they hunt in the depths. I've also heard that the Scions lay down compact, portable fortresses on the sea bed, containing hangars, apothacerions and supply dumps. From these fortresses, they push out and destroy any enemies found in the area before laying down another fortress and moving on.

As I hope I have conveyed, those wars fought in the galaxies oceans deserve as much if not more recognition than those fought in the void or on land. In the oceans, war is a brutal, attritional affair, a matter of how long an armies morale and strength will hold, as they hunt their foes in an ever changing and ever more deadly game of cat and mouse in which there is no room for mercy and the only possible outcome is the death of one protagonist or the other. 

 

[Finished. It's good for PDF stage.]

[Hesh Kadesh]

Only thing i saw mentioned that might be a bit off was rusting; I wouldn't have thought that Atsartes weapons would be made of iron alloys, least of all one which is susceptible to rusting. Or really any other form of easy construction, like Elements 119+, or Ceramic Compounds, or even the old favourites of a Titanium/Cobalt/Tungsten alloy.

 

Plus, that it is not so much rusting that damages the weapons, but the resistance of the water which reduces their efficiency.

 

Other than that, I like it. ;)

[Sigismund229]

@Hesh, I was a bit iffy on that too but decided to include it in order to give a reason as to why underwtaer engagements are almost always close range. For the beam weapons, its not so much rusting as water getting inside them and fouling the insides which probably have at least a few electrical parts.

[Hesh Kadesh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzm_yyl13yo

 

Might prove helpful ;) Couple of the guys were sharing it around the office the other day. Rocket assisted ammunition might help of course, but even then, so called underwater pistols are already really short ranged. 

[Nomus Sardauk]

Thing is, as we know, Bolt rounds are more than simple bullets. Aside for the hgh-explosive warhead the other characteristic trait of the Bolt round is it's propellant, which burns slowly over time like a firework (I believe the term for such ballistic rounds are Gyrojets) rather then the simple propelling explosion of conventional rounds.

We also know that they are many, many different variants on the standard bolt shell and they are highly customisable. So, what I'm saying is would it be possible for the Imperium to design a model of Bolt round specifically for use in underwater environments? If so, what kind of rules could you use to represent them?

[MikhalLeNoir]

Maybe they work but have only the half or a third of the range? So the close combat of under water fight is underlined

[Grifftofer]

I could see them working more like the Tempest(?) shells that Seekers have access to. So not as long range, less penetrative, but with additional explosive charge so that they can cause damage even on a near miss. In an underwater environ I think the concussive effect of the explosion might even be enhanced.