Black Book - Insurrection (PUBLISHED)

[Athrawes]

Well In cannon verse, Horus' body survived to be carried by the Soh into the eye of terror, just his soul was obliterated I think. 

 

Here is the relevant passage from Visions of Heresy that describes the moment Horus is 'freed' from Chaos during his fight with the Emperor: 

 

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i327/nickfayette1/b983cfcb-3c14-482c-9032-c424bae2e9c7.jpg

 

I imagine something similar Happens with Icarion, He reasserts himself because of the memory from Alexandros, and so lays himself bare to the Emperor, so that he can be killed.

[Skalpynock]

This also makes the Scouring a much more important period, as it's not just about pushing the Traitors back the Eye of Terror, but actively reconquering half an Imperium. A Second Great Crusade of sorts, with the Revolutionary empire contesting Terra over the remnants of the Icarion's domains.

[Sigismund229]

 

 

 

Well lets looks at it from this perspective, since Icarion is going into the war not wanting to destroy the imperium or his brothers.

 

I see 1 problem with it. The Lions and a large portion of the Bears don't retreat to Terra, they fall back to defend the empire of Mycenae. That's where they intend to make their stand and of necesary die. We had it that the BoU, Jackals&a force of EW attack them and at the end of it Raktra goes deamon following the Cadian massacre. That campaign could only last 2 or 3 years and it would make strategic sense to have it at the beginning of Insurrection.

With the apparent lengthening of the war, i don't really see a problem with any of the above happening. The Lions and the Iron Bears withdrae to Mycenae and establish their foothold there as the rest of the loyalists fight battles being pushed back to form an imperial defense line, which I assume Mycenae would be a part of of.

 

The BoU, Jackals and EW invasion of Mycenae would then happen sometime in the middle portion of the war, (For argument sake and assuming 30 year insurrection, lets call it 15th year) So that way, the cadian massacre and ascension of Raktra coincides with the corruption of the Traitor war effort, and it becomes one of the principle reasons the Revolutionaries say the Traitors have gone too far.

But strategy would dictate that the BoU and co. would want to attack Mycenae immediately after the ambushes, capitalising on the loyalists confusion and elimination the III and VI BEFORE they have a chance to dig in.

 

Although I suppose we could change it so that the Cadian Massacre is when Raktra starts going down the path of Khorne and gets noticed by the Chaos gods and his actual ascension occurs at a later date...

 

Also, side note. Where would the Sheperds go when the heresy began? Would they have been purged by Raktra or could some of them fight alongside the III&VI against their traitorous bretheren?

[bluntblade]

And we have less rational motives too for certain actors. Alexos will have his agenda after all.

 

I need to consult Raktra on Insurrection era, but the Shepherds ended up as an independent unit sometime after the reunion. My thoughts are that Raktra will have most of them butchered early on (Hastur Sejanus has a date with the Grinder, it's gonna be painful) leaving a few to become Knights Errant.

 

What's been established in-thread is that the Shepherds spent one miserable decade stuck to the Zerkers with recruitment rights withheld, until they reached a breaking point. I've got an idea for said point, and I intend to run it past Raktra in the next few days.

[Athrawes]

 

 

 

Well lets looks at it from this perspective, since Icarion is going into the war not wanting to destroy the imperium or his brothers.

I see 1 problem with it. The Lions and a large portion of the Bears don't retreat to Terra, they fall back to defend the empire of Mycenae. That's where they intend to make their stand and of necesary die. We had it that the BoU, Jackals&a force of EW attack them and at the end of it Raktra goes deamon following the Cadian massacre. That campaign could only last 2 or 3 years and it would make strategic sense to have it at the beginning of Insurrection.

With the apparent lengthening of the war, i don't really see a problem with any of the above happening. The Lions and the Iron Bears withdrae to Mycenae and establish their foothold there as the rest of the loyalists fight battles being pushed back to form an imperial defense line, which I assume Mycenae would be a part of of.

 

The BoU, Jackals and EW invasion of Mycenae would then happen sometime in the middle portion of the war, (For argument sake and assuming 30 year insurrection, lets call it 15th year) So that way, the cadian massacre and ascension of Raktra coincides with the corruption of the Traitor war effort, and it becomes one of the principle reasons the Revolutionaries say the Traitors have gone too far.

But strategy would dictate that the BoU and co. would want to attack Mycenae immediately after the ambushes, capitalising on the loyalists confusion and elimination the III and VI BEFORE they have a chance to dig in.

 

Although I suppose we could change it so that the Cadian Massacre is when Raktra starts going down the path of Khorne and gets noticed by the Chaos gods and his actual ascension occurs at a later date...

 

Also, side note. Where would the Sheperds go when the heresy began? Would they have been purged by Raktra or could some of them fight alongside the III&VI against their traitorous bretheren?

 

 

I guess I don't see why Icarion's strategy would dictate that, Icarion isn't out to eradicate anyone ( in the beginning). The death of Daer'dd is unfortunate but necessary, and the crippling of the Loyalists is likewise unfortunate but necessary to allow the Insurrectionists reconquest to begin. Icarion doesn't need to hunt down the surviving Lions and Bears, he only needed to cripple them/the loyalists to allow his legions the freedom to begin the reconquest, and the Insurrectionists achieved that. 

 

The Loyalists wouldn't just pull out of the war for 10 years after the initial betrayal. They would be fighting at the expanding border of the New Imperium, trying to stop the Traitors and Icarion. But the Numerical superiority of the Insurrectionists following the Day of Revelation is so significant that Icarion wouldn't see the shattered legions continued survival as a credible threat (he is of course wrong about that) but after he cripples the loyalists, his priorities shift towards conquering worlds and convincing the rest of his surviving brothers to join him.

 

At the beginning of the Insurrection, though Icarion needed to humble/cripple the loyal legions, he still hopes that after he reconquers the Imperium, that they can be swayed to his cause, and thereby protected from the Emperor. it would be years before Icarion stops caring about his brothers, and begins to burn the galaxy, that's when he would loosen the reigns on his more bloodthirsty brothers like Alexos and Raktra and let them finish off the still weekend Loyalists.

[MikhalLeNoir]

One important strategic plint i can see Icarion attack and i heavily suggest he has to if he wants to cripple the legions for a long time, are the training facilities of the loyalists legion where the new astartes are created. A precise surgical strike could turn the tide even more to his favors.I guess It takes decades to recover from such a strike.

[Sigismund229]

Trouble with that is that, in order to put up a decent fight when the BoU, SJ&EW come rollinh along, the CL need to he left with a significant portion of their strength intact and by BoL standards they're not a big legion to begin with but of they still have a significant portion of their strength intact then they still present a threat etc.

 

Or we could by pass that problem by saying that Mycenae and the surrounding empire gets cut off my warp storms or smthn, thus rendering it impervious to large scale traitor incursions but at the same time unable to participate in the war at large(until the warp storms clear however much time into the Insurrection)

[MikhalLeNoir]

But isn't the mycene an empire itself? So if the lions is forced to split his powers between his worlds and the imperial army is led by them but takes the main fight, then it could lenghten the fight without taking a too great toll on the lions marines. Let the planets inhabitants suffer :)

 

And wouldn't the powers kf the warp ensure that their allies get through to the warp storms but the lions inside can't get out?

[simison]

It's been a while since I've woken up to a flurry of posting overnight. 

 

Athrawes, I agree with your timeline for the most part with one minor shift. Instead of increasing brutality being the cause of the split, it's the slow descent into Chaos that drives away the Revolutionaries and Jackel. 

 

Now, as far as criticisms, I'm seeing two main threads. One, how does Icarion maintain his 'gentle conquest' strategy with unpredictable Primarchs like Travier and Raktra? Travier I don't see as much of a problem as Raktra, since he's listening to all 4 Chaos gods, two of which has some mastery of patience. Raktra, though, will still adhere to orders until Khorne starts whispering into his ears. That does provide some interesting scenarios where Icarion will have to assert his authority to prevent undue massacres. 

 

And that could tie as one of the factors for Icarion growing more cruel and reliant on chaos is that the less impatient Primarchs are repeatedly challenging his authority and losing marines in battles and campaigns Icarion didn't plan for, with his control weakening over the first decade or two until Icarion goes from idealist to cynic. 

 

The other thread is tied to the final battle. Since Icarion doesn't have an anti-psyker armor, the chink Alex does is mental in nature. As mentioned, Alex basically uses his last move to hit Icarion with their favorite 'bro' moment which breaks a hole in Icarion's psychic defenses. Beyond that, the only idea I had was having another unexpected consequence happening to the Wardens by Alex's death and possibly a 'Sanguinor'-like character or something coming out of it. Anyway, the psychic 'chink' allows the Emperor to defeat Icarion Ascended, but we've always assumed we would just shift into a canon ending there. An empty body with no soul. Again, all we have were some broad outlines instead of details at this point. I'm not sure if we need to have a discussion about the final battle in detail right now with so much of the Insurrection needing covering.

[MikhalLeNoir]

as mentiomed i asked the questions right now cause i tend to forget them and they never come back.

[Big Bad Squig]

If the war is so long, some changes will be made to the Godslayers.  While I still maintain that they go full plague mode after the Death of the Bear (perhaps once the entire legion returns to Zbruch to celebrate the new Imperium), they are going to then be withdrawn for perhaps the first decade as Zbruch is enveloped in warp storms/Koschei hides his legion out of shame/there is all-out war on Zbruch with small bands of survivors trying to hold out against the corrupted legionnaires.  That way, the revolutionaries will be exposed to the growing fall to chaos once Koschei is able to subjugate his legion enough to bring them to battle, while allowing Nurgle's joke to be punctual.

 

If that's gonna cause a numbers problem, allow me to compensate by reiterating what I said somewhere in one of these threads about the Dune Serpents; being one of the more secretive, selfish and unethical legions, and having such a close relationship with the Eagle Warriors, it would make sense for at least some of them to split off from the loyalists.

 

Also, I've been flicking through these last two pages, and something became unclear to me; does the Emperor still die in this continuity?

[Sigismund229]

If the war is so long, some changes will be made to the Godslayers.  While I still maintain that they go full plague mode after the Death of the Bear (perhaps once the entire legion returns to Zbruch to celebrate the new Imperium), they are going to then be withdrawn for perhaps the first decade as Zbruch is enveloped in warp storms/Koschei hides his legion out of shame/there is all-out war on Zbruch with small bands of survivors trying to hold out against the corrupted legionnaires.  That way, the revolutionaries will be exposed to the growing fall to chaos once Koschei is able to subjugate his legion enough to bring them to battle, while allowing Nurgle's joke to be punctual.

 

If that's gonna cause a numbers problem, allow me to compensate by reiterating what I said somewhere in one of these threads about the Dune Serpents; being one of the more secretive, selfish and unethical legions, and having such a close relationship with the Eagle Warriors, it would make sense for at least some of them to split off from the loyalists.

 

Also, I've been flicking through these last two pages, and something became unclear to me; does the Emperor still die in this continuity?

Really? That soon? 

 

Can't you delay it a bit? Something like the death of Daer'dd is what starts Koschei down that path and it's his guilt over that that gradually grinds down his resolve until finally he see's something which causes him to finally collapse under the weight of it all and beg to have the internal pain removed and the galaxy finally made the way it should be(at which point Nurgle comes in and offers to obliterate Koschei's pain and make all equal, after which they go full plague mode and go hide on Zbuch after Koschei see's what his legion have become)

[MikhalLeNoir]

I second Sigismund here. After Daer'dd dies Koschei is stricken with guilt and je starts hearing voices. At first it seems as if it is his own. But the voice grows ever stronger and has the longer the insurrection goes more influence on koschei. First it is dismissed as his inner thought but then it adresses him personally. Really talking to himself. An active advisor. So you can underline his descent into the abyss of madness over a long time. If the Godslayers are removed from battle this early. The advantage of icarion in numbers is soon gone.

 

A slow change seems imho better as they are cut iff from the rest and appear suddenly out of the plague as zombified marines.

Imho cooler would be if they slowly recognize the changes.

 

Something like that just of couse in yourbusual great story form

 

Hidden Content

May 9, 1998

 

At night, we played poker with Scott the guard, Alias and Steve the researcher.

 

Steve was very lucky, but I think he was cheating. What a scumbag.

 

 

May 10th 1998

 

Today, a high ranking researcher asked me to take care of a new monster. It looks like a gorilla without any skin. They told me to feed them live food. When I threw in a pig, they were playing with it... tearing off the pig's legs and pulling out the guts before they actually ate it.

 

 

May 11th 1998

 

Around 5 o'clock this morning, Scott came in and woke me up suddenly. He was wearing a protective suit that looks like a space suit. He told me to put one on as well. I heard there was an accident in the basement lab. It's no wonder, those researchers never rest, even at night.

 

 

May 12th 1998

 

I've been wearing this annoying space suit since yesterday, my skin grows musty and feels very itchy. By way of revenge, I didn't feed those dogs today. Now I feel better.

 

 

May 13th 1998

 

I went to the medical room because my back is all swollen and feels itchy. They put a big bandage on my back and the doctor told me I did not need to wear the space suit any more. I guess I can sleep well tonight.

 

 

May 14th 1998

 

When I woke up this morning, I found another blister on my foot. It was annoying and I ended up dragging my foot as I went to the dog's pen. They have been quiet since morning, which is very unusual. I found that some of them had escaped. I'll be in real trouble if the higher-ups find out.

 

 

May 15th 1998

 

Even though I didn't feel well, I decided to go see Nancy. It's my first day off in a long time but I was stopped by the guard on the way out. They say the company has ordered that no one leave the grounds. I can't even make a phone call. What kind of joke is this?!

 

 

May 16th 1998

 

I heard a researcher who tried to escape from this mansion was shot last night. My entire body feels burning and itchy at night. When I was scratching the swelling on my arms, a lump of rotten flesh dropped off. What the hell is happening to me?

 

 

May 19, 1998

 

Fever gone but itchy. Hungry and eat doggy food. Itchy Itchy Scott came. Ugly face so killed him. Tasty.

 

 

4.

Itchy.

Tasty.

[Big Bad Squig]

Alright, I see where people are coming from.  The only problems I see are twofold; one, I don't see the plagueification of the Godslayers as a slow burn thing.  It's quick and needs a catalyst, but more on that later.  Two, I don't see the Godslayers as a dishonourable legion (i.e. murdernating innocent planets. etc.), and I feel like to have them being generally villainous for a decade kinda cheapens the tragedy of their fall from grace.

 

Thusly:

 

The dead legionnaire visits Koschei in a dream telling him to side with Icarion, blah blah blah (insert something about dreams being an important philosophical part of Zbruchan culture, blah blah blah).  Koschei kills Daer'dd and the Godslayers go about their usual traitorous business.  Over time, Koschei is plagued (pun intended) by guilt over Daer'dd's death and visited more and more by Nurgle's emissary, who tries to silence his conscience and keep him on Icarion's side.  After some time, however, Koschei considers leaving Icarion and the traitors and withdrawing from the war like Gwalchavad.  All of a sudden, Zbruch comes under siege by 'xenos' (daemons; Nurgle's final gambit to stop Koschei from leaving the traitors) on a massive scale, forcing the entire Godslayers legion to return to Zbruch briefly.  By the time they arrive, the populace is already zombified (and Koschei inevitably meets Nurgle's emissary in the flesh, because story arcs), and attack the marines, who are overwhelmed.  Over a period of weeks, the entire legion is infected and Koschei driven to madness.  He takes what he can of his legion, vowing to attack the Loyalist legions with everything he has and simply to take everything away from his brothers as he has had everything taken away from him.  He is only restrained from turning this hatred onto the traitors by the fact that Nurgle has allowed his nephew to live in exchange for his compliance.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Nothing is better than a good honorful legion on the wrong side ;)

But your layout suits to Athrawes timeline. At the beginning Koschei wants to help Icarion to secure their empire and draw people to their cause. And the turn for the rusty comes about the time Icarion policy changes to a more violent approach.

 

Fits

 

"Where is me bloody dagger"

[Sigismund229]

Oh ok, that sounds like a believable story arc. I thought you meant Daer'dd died and then BOOM Godslayers go all plaguey immediately afterwards.

 

As to the length of the Insurrection, I still think it should be no longer than 12-15 years. I mean think about what will happen if Icarion needs to repeatedly exert his authority over Raktra and other such individuals. They will become discontented and, seeing as Icarion's conquest is going so slowly, they will have no clear sight of victory to keep them fighting for Icarion and so he'll need to put them in their place more often and if he does that TOO often he risks them deserting him and going renegade at best.

 

So, while I agree that we can lengthen the Insurrection as Icarion's goals are different to Horus' and he wants to build a stable empire, I don't think we should lengthen it too much as the idea of making it a decades long stalemate in which Raktra, Morro etc. have stayed loyal to Icarion for decades when they have no sight of a final victory, only an endless cycle of conquering worlds and allowing the loyalists to re build their strength kinda breaks the immersion for me as it seems so non sensical.

[Doctor Perils]

snip

So it seems like Koschei falls to Nurgle's aspect of despair in a first instance, rather than Mortarion wishing to make his legionnaries more endurant (or somethin ?)

 

Depicting a fall to nurgle is the most difficult one to imagine I think: The other gods have strong emotions linked to them, but Nurgle seems a bit complicated to portray. It is doubly difficult, as we haven't seen a good portrayal of why Mortarion falls to Nurgle (well, we haven't seen a good portrayal of Mortarion full stop :P), so it isn't possible to compare like with like as it is for the Berzerkers/World Eaters or the Drowned/Emperor's Children.

 

 

Your plan seems like it could work, though I'm not sure about the idea of Koschei joining the god of plagues just because he spared his nephew. I'd really play up the despair and depression elements, and show some of that even before the daemonic/zombie outbreak on Zbruch

[bluntblade]

Could we perhaps get a poll thread going?

[Slips]

For?

[bluntblade]

For?

For just how long the Insurrection spans, given the effect it'll have on so many story arcs.

[Slips]

Alright.

 

Odd that y'all cant make polls but, oh well :p

[MikhalLeNoir]

Well, Koschei can start seeing dead people. As nirgle is the god of decay, death and life if he plagues Koschei with visions and regret I think his transformatiom could be really cool and believable. I think nurgle has great potential. It is really sad that gw didn't choose to make it cool, but that gives us an advantage as we don't need to copycat;)

 

 

By the way, don't forget, that the crusade lasted for nearly 300 years, I bet even those impatient Primarchs know, that it takes time to conquer a galaxy, especially if the have marines fighting them.

 

And Icarion losing control over his more chaosy brothers could be another reason, why he rushes in the end to terra and tries to force a decission in the conflict.

A stalemate would offer new storytelling points like some sort of warfare like WW1, only on a planetary or galactic scale. Battle weary marines. So much potential

[simison]

The Day of Revelation

 

After decades of hidden planning, Icarion's moment had finally arrived. As a testament to his gifts of divination, his legions struck as one against their targets as the thirteenth hour arrived on Terra. The astropaths aboard Pyrrhicles' fleet reported seeing images of brother fighting against brother, several Primarchs looming large to their blind eyes. With little concrete evidence of this unexpected enemy, Pyrrhicles sought the nearest safe haven to alert the Imperium and to prepare for the new horrid war that had thrusted itself upon them. True to the Stormborn's plot, Pyrrhicles saw Madrigal as the nearest system and changed his fleet's trajectory to it. Upon arriving in-system, they were met by the Evening Star who escorted them to the shipyards orbiting Akira. Unwittingly surrounded by a fleet of enemy warships, it was only due to Pyrrhicles' preparation for battle that any of his ships were ready for engagement.

 

Once the Lightning Bearer fleet had the Warden expeditionary fleet completely surrounded, ostensibly for protection, Icarion opened a channel so that his voice reached from the mighty captains of the V^th legion to the lowliest menials. He began with praise of the close brotherhood the two legions shared and of the Halcyon Wardens' famed valour known throughout the galaxy. It was then Icarion revealed himself, speaking in a dire tone of warning about the true threat facing the Imperium: the Emperor himself. Mentioning knowledge gleaned from future sources, Icarion foresaw a tyrant who would destroy his gene-sons and the space marines once their purpose was complete. Their only salvation was to join Icarion's cause, to serve not Warmaster or Emperor, but to serve the Stormlord. 

[Grifftofer]

Ok. So I'm still looking to finish the allies table off. If anyone wants to help me fill in the blanks I'd appreciate it. Apologies if you've posted them before and I've missed them.

 

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn171/Grifftofer/BotL%20Alliance%20Table_zps1llyhsmk.jpg

[Demus Ragnok]

Fire Keepers would be Fellow Warriors with the Lightning Bearers and By the Order of with the BoU.

 

Niklaas and Raktra tend to end up in fist fights.