simison Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 The Damocles Command Rhino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Oh yeah that. I say its a vehicle and doesnt count. So still a three unit limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 Except I've been counting unique vehicles as part of the limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 I thought we agreed no unique vehicles in the books? Well silly me then. Ok then i guess three + a vehicle is cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grifftofer Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 From my point of view I don't mind if it's 3 or 3+ a vehicle. But if we can keep [unique units + vehicles + named characters] to an even number that would help me out with layout and things :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Can we exchange our unique vehicle for another unique unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Perils Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 3 units (+ 1 vehicle) sounds like a sane limit to me. Do new consul types count in the same limit ? If not, Sigismund, you might be able to use the vehicle slot for that, but 4 units sounds a little much, considering that the units in the Crusade Army List are already supposed to represent most units one could encounter in the Legions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 How about 3 units types + 1 consul/ vehicle + 2? relic/ weapon+ 3 named characters? So we have the magic 9 Togheter with the primarch we have an even 10 But I second Hesh ( we had the discussion before) trying to use the existent rules to represent chars/ vehicles etc is better. So instead of creating the blinding light landspeeder. Just use a javelin and equip it with the legion relic naked emperor to blind everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 The Damocles Command Rhino, however, is available to all Legions. I think the only reason its special for the UM is because it can be a Dedicated Transport for their Masters of Signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 The Damocles Command Rhino, however, is available to all Legions. I think the only reason its special for the UM is because it can be a Dedicated Transport for their Masters of Signal. Even so, that's different enough for FW to count it as a legion-specific unit slot. Which is why I was wondering if we had any details about Book 6. I wanted to know if this was UM only or if this was the start of a new trend. Can we exchange our unique vehicle for another unique unit? I feel like we've had this conversation before. If we're adding a potential 4th unique legion unit, then yes. I'm not going to say that every legion has to have a unique vehicle. I thought we agreed no unique vehicles in the books? Well silly me then. Ok then i guess three + a vehicle is cool. No, I said it was okay to have a unique vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 After looking into Retribution and learning that it doesn't have the answers I seek, I'm going to side with caution and maintain our current limits. For a quick reminder, that should be: 1 Primarch - 1 Relic - 2 RoW - 1 to 4 legion-unique wargear - 3 unique units - 3 unique characters Pivoting back to the Iron Bears, Redd, I think the relic weapon is fine, except for the name. I think it's a little bland, but that might just be me. EDIT: Continuing my catalog of the Iron Bears' rules: you're short 1 RoW, 1 unique character, and over 1 unique unit & 11 unique pieces of wargear. Regarding that last point, I think you can cut down on a lot of it if you just reduce the number of 'hawk' weapons. Also, Redd and Aandeg are way too expensive and need to be downgraded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Captain Redd Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Alright, first let me apologize as I had no idea there had been a limit. well easy stuff first is I'll get rid of Phalanx Leviathans, so that's 3 unique units. It also removes Phalanx bolters, while we are at it I'll get rid of Tomahawk charges, Warclaws, power kopis, Ironhawks and Warhawks. I'll also ixnay Ironbound armour. The rest might take awhile to sort for me as they're heavily used in the two special units, both special characters, and potential upgrades for characters. As far as legion traits go there is one other drawback sort of hidden in mechanics and that's that Bears will rarely get to use overwatch as the way it is now special units are designed to force charges. And I'll still leave breachers out. And do need to be downgraded points wise? Because I over priced both intentionally, so they wouldn't be seen either as totally broken. Redd isn't nearly as reliably killy as Sigismund just a good bit tougher. And I thought as the Bears are involved in three books I thought we had discussed them having one each book, with the second focused on the broken legion elements and the the third focused on the 4th on Terra during the siege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I think they should be only fluffwise in every book. Cause if you follow that road we should have alex and icarion in every book. With.rules new armies etc. Would be easier to make a compendium for legions who are shattered or for the loyalists and make general rules. Call it "broken" and it could mean "bonds broken" for the loyalists/ traitor elements or simply "broken" for a legion who lost their primarch or "broken" describing pionius body and those elements who were against the eldar tech solution etc. Put it in every book with rules we could change the name to "bears rising" or "iron returns" ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Captain Redd Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Ohh no I didn't mean to insinuate that the Bears would be special as far RoWs or anything else for that matter, I just assumed it'd be something similar for most everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 Alright, first let me apologize as I had no idea there had been a limit. well easy stuff first is I'll get rid of Phalanx Leviathans, so that's 3 unique units. It also removes Phalanx bolters, while we are at it I'll get rid of Tomahawk charges, Warclaws, power kopis, Ironhawks and Warhawks. I'll also ixnay Ironbound armour. The rest might take awhile to sort for me as they're heavily used in the two special units, both special characters, and potential upgrades for characters. As far as legion traits go there is one other drawback sort of hidden in mechanics and that's that Bears will rarely get to use overwatch as the way it is now special units are designed to force charges. And I'll still leave breachers out. And do need to be downgraded points wise? Because I over priced both intentionally, so they wouldn't be seen either as totally broken. Redd isn't nearly as reliably killy as Sigismund just a good bit tougher. Units good. Remaining wargear: Tomahawk, Power Toma, Proto Assault Can, Inferno Pistol, Totem armour, Iron Hide, Gauntlets, Iron combat shield, Storm Shield So, still 5 over. If you don't make a third unique character, I'll allow two more unique wargear to compensate. That could just leave you 3 over. Now, one way to shorten the list is to make some items, unique unit only. My Myrmidon have a unique weapon called the Siren Grenade Launcher, but it doesn't count toward my legion wargear limit because it's only for the Myrmidon. Are there any items you could work in that way? Also, is the Inferno Pistol not a common weapon in HH? Did you also go big for the Artificer's Wrath? Because I think that one is very audacious. I think it'd be more balanced if you split it into two RoW, one focusing on the Iron Bears' engineering side, and the other focusing on the Iron Bear Mark system. Now, speaking to everyone, I have a question. When I created the Tower Shields of the Halcyon Wardens, it was because I thought it would unrealistic to depict the canon Wardens of creating the first Storm Shields before the Salamanders and Imperial Fists. Here, I don't see that as an issue and have been debating whether or not I should replace the Tower Shields with the Storm Shield and claim the Wardens created the first ones. Likewise, the prototype Assault Cannon is another wargear that is limited to two legions in canon that could also be a mark of some renown here. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Is there no multilaser lascannon? ;) that would fit to the wardens of light^^ No problem if you switch the tower shields with stormshields. Makes sense, but we have the lions as shield legion too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Yeah the Lions use shields pretty much universally but I suppose the Wardens could invent the storm shield(they are the warmaster's own after all) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 Is there no multilaser lascannon? that would fit to the wardens of light^^ No problem if you switch the tower shields with stormshields. Makes sense, but we have the lions as shield legion too We could have more than 2 legions using the Storm Shields. It's just a little more popular in BotL than in Canon-verse. So, while I'm waiting to hear from Redd, I'm using the free time to begin uploading the Godslayers' fluff into the PDF. And I've been reminded of something I've been debating for a while now. Should the Godslayers be labeled as Pariahs? Last time I spoke with Squig about this, I mentioned that they were much easier to understand if I thought of them as a breed of Psykers who could only counter other psykers. Especially since the whole Legion is supposed to fall to Nurgle. Squig, are you okay with shifting the Godslayer fluff and rules this way? Practically, it shouldn't change much, they'll simply be able to generate Warp Charges during the Opponent's phase and perhaps have Adamantium Will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Nah. It was meant for if the lions claim the invention of the storm shields for themselves. But sigismund already said they didn't ^^ If they become nin pariahs, do they still use the pariah power chart grifft developed? Would be sad as the 4 pariah legions resembled all a special trait and were kinda balanced. Removing 1 dysbalances all :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 They could still use it, since it is functionally the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Squig Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Should the Godslayers be labeled as Pariahs? Last time I spoke with Squig about this, I mentioned that they were much easier to understand if I thought of them as a breed of Psykers who could only counter other psykers. Especially since the whole Legion is supposed to fall to Nurgle. Squig, are you okay with shifting the Godslayer fluff and rules this way? Practically, it shouldn't change much, they'll simply be able to generate Warp Charges during the Opponent's phase and perhaps have Adamantium Will. The Godslayers are similar to pariahs in terms of rules (they have Adamantium Will as their Legiones Astartes main trait, use the pariah table on everyone but Koschei, etc.). The fluff thing is a hangup from when I started my project in the canonverse and the idea of a Pariah Primarch was shut down, so I had to work around it. Basically, I don't mind either way. EDIT: You mean shifting them to be Psychic Suppressants fluffwise, rather than taking them back to being pariahs? I'm happy for that as well; misread the previous posts a little bit . What changes do you think this would necessitate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Why did they shut you down on the pariah thing? Let me guess: primarchs gain their power from their warp and a pariah would never have been able to be abducted by the chaos gods, right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted May 4, 2016 Author Share Posted May 4, 2016 Why did they shut you down on the pariah thing? Let me guess: primarchs gain their power from their warp and a pariah would never have been able to be abducted by the chaos gods, right Hm....I had never thought of that. Oh well. Anyway, fluff-wise, I want to shift to the Warp Suppressant psyker fluff. Mechanically, we could either switch to giving the Godslayers 'Brotherhood of Psykers' and Adamantium Will to represent their Warp Suppressant nature, or just leave it as is with the Pariah tree. Either works, and I leave that choice to you, Squig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Captain Redd Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Okay cleaned up the Bears armoury to Power Tomahawk, Assault Cannon, Ironbound Shields, Storm Shields, Gauntlets of Terra, and Ironbound Hide. I'll get the RoWs done tonight or tomorrow. And I'm going to for sure take your advice Sim and edit some bit into the unit entries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 Do we have any scenarios/fluff for the Day of Revelation that still need some work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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