Knight Angels Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Hello everyone Can someone explain the rules of the darkshroud-6''-Bubble to me? My question is; how many models form a unit have to be inside the 6''-Bubble to get: a. no overwatch b. stealth and fear ? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAngeal Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Just one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Angels Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 Nice, thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Dark Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 An aditional question If darkshroud is part of a rw support squadren, does it impart abilities to all landspeeders even if they are further out than 6? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 The squadron rules say 4" so at least one will be within the 6". Thus all will have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypher 102 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Unless you leave only one Land Speeder within 6" of the Dark Shroud and your opponent gets sneaky and sets up his attacks so that that Land Speeder has to be removed as a casualty and breaks the chain. Then you'll lose stealth. The shrouding will stay because the rule requires at least one model in the unit to have the rule for it to affect the rest of the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 A tactical note on the Dark Shroud & Unit If your going to go into a gunline and I play against TAU quite frequently the trick of holding back then Turbo boosting so my Bike squad gets to go in while denying overwatch is priceless A recent game I had to weather the storm of ignores cover leaving the Int Chaplain and Medic as the sole survivors rather than snap shoot the DS which had had to jink I used the upwash rule to gain extra inches and block overwatch while wiping the smile off my Tau opponents face as he'd been trash talking how I had no chance after removing 5 of the squad in the 1st turn. The gambit paid off and the 2 were responsible for removing the Commander + marker drones then other key units by themselves. Pre-Measure and use it to gain tactical supremacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Unless you leave only one Land Speeder within 6" of the Dark Shroud and your opponent gets sneaky and sets up his attacks so that that Land Speeder has to be removed as a casualty and breaks the chain. Then you'll lose stealth. The shrouding will stay because the rule requires at least one model in the unit to have the rule for it to affect the rest of the unit. Incorrect. The Dark Shroud becomes a member of the Squadron. The Dark Shroud as a member of the squadron is within 6" of itself so the squadron gets stealth too regardless of coherency.... Now mind I think it is cheesy to give the squadron both shroud and stealth and I imagine that there will be a FAQ.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Unless you leave only one Land Speeder within 6" of the Dark Shroud and your opponent gets sneaky and sets up his attacks so that that Land Speeder has to be removed as a casualty and breaks the chain. Then you'll lose stealth. The shrouding will stay because the rule requires at least one model in the unit to have the rule for it to affect the rest of the unit. Incorrect. The Dark Shroud becomes a member of the Squadron. The Dark Shroud as a member of the squadron is within 6" of itself so the squadron gets stealth too regardless of coherency.... Now mind I think it is cheesy to give the squadron both shroud and stealth and I imagine that there will be a FAQ.... The Speeders get shrouded because there in unit but the Darkshroud can never get stealth as it specifically says so in its entry In terms of FAQ on shrouded that's just how it works and given what they just did to TAU looks intended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Angels Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 why you even mind about the darkshroud getting stealth and shrouded in the formation? he will alwasy be jinking and so getting the 2++/2++. You cant go better than that. a question to how formations work (because i dont use them... yet): if somethings shooting at the formation, does it affects all models of this formation or just the one being shot at? I'll guess the answer is the second. Thanks for pointing it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Unless you leave only one Land Speeder within 6" of the Dark Shroud and your opponent gets sneaky and sets up his attacks so that that Land Speeder has to be removed as a casualty and breaks the chain. Then you'll lose stealth. The shrouding will stay because the rule requires at least one model in the unit to have the rule for it to affect the rest of the unit.Incorrect. The Dark Shroud becomes a member of the Squadron. The Dark Shroud as a member of the squadron is within 6" of itself so the squadron gets stealth too regardless of coherency.... Now mind I think it is cheesy to give the squadron both shroud and stealth and I imagine that there will be a FAQ.... The Speeders get shrouded because there in unit but the Darkshroud can never get stealth as it specifically says so in its entry In terms of FAQ on shrouded that's just how it works and given what they just did to TAU looks intended My point was missed but thats okay, I didnt qualify that the shroud STILL cant give itself steath but the rest of the squadron doesn't lose it if they happen to go out of coherency. This isnt like an IC joining a unit, the DS is part of the Squadron until the squadron is all dead... And since the DS cannot get out of the squadron, the DS will always be within 6" of itself so the Squadron will always get Shroud and Stealth. why you even mind about the darkshroud getting stealth and shrouded in the formation? he will alwasy be jinking and so getting the 2++/2++. You cant go better than that. a question to how formations work (because i dont use them... yet): if somethings shooting at the formation, does it affects all models of this formation or just the one being shot at? I'll guess the answer is the second. Thanks for pointing it out! Depends on the formation. The above RW Support Squadron is a single squadron as defined by the formation sheet. The RW Assault Squadron may combat squad as normal as mentioned in the formation rules. The RW Silence Squadron isnt a squadron at all as you can roll for each plane to come on as a single unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Unless you leave only one Land Speeder within 6" of the Dark Shroud and your opponent gets sneaky and sets up his attacks so that that Land Speeder has to be removed as a casualty and breaks the chain. Then you'll lose stealth. The shrouding will stay because the rule requires at least one model in the unit to have the rule for it to affect the rest of the unit. Incorrect. The Dark Shroud becomes a member of the Squadron. The Dark Shroud as a member of the squadron is within 6" of itself so the squadron gets stealth too regardless of coherency.... Now mind I think it is cheesy to give the squadron both shroud and stealth and I imagine that there will be a FAQ.... I was thinking on this recently because there was the possibility of it coming up in a game, and I realized that the unit does NOT get both rules. Stealth and Fear is given to separate untis within 6" of the DarkShroud, The Darkshroud itself, and any models attached to it (i.e. forming a *single* Squadron unit), will have Shrouded. There is no "I give you Stealth and Fear?, and then I join you?, but you are still, like, separate-ish and so keep Stealth and Fear?, and now you get Shouded because we now form a single bff unit, yet you still keep Stealth and Fear and give it to me because, like, I still say you are kinda separate-ish?" going on. :p Sorry to rip the band-aid off, but, yes, the double benefit would seem to be B.S. I was leary to begin with. You do buy the units separately, but as soon as you put them both into a Ravenwing Support Squadron and they form *a single unit* because they are required to do so, the Ravenwing Land Speeders will gain Shrouded instead of Stealth and Fear, as they are not a separate unit within 6" of the Darkshroud. But, as members of a unit with one model having the Shrouded rule, the Ravenwing Land Speeders do then gain Shrouded. The Stealth and Fear rules are not imparted to the Darkshroud's own unit, only other units within 6". And so the RWSS gets a 5+ cover save when in the open, a 3+ cover save if behind cover, and a 2+ re-rollable cover save when Jinking. It could still use an FAQ, just to make things abundantly clear, but I will play it this way for the meantime. Poorly written, and easily abused/confused to be sure, and it should have been addressed in the only place where it matters- the Ravenwing Support Squadron entry. A single errata sentence would clarify it: P. 143 Support Squadron: Add the following sentence to the end of the paragraph. "The Darkshoud's Icon of Old Caliban gives the entire Ravenwing Support Squadron the Shrouded special rule, and otherwise gives the Fear and Stealth special rules to other friendly units with the Dark Angels Faction within 6" of the Darkshroud (models within the Darkshroud's own squadron do not gain the Fear and Stealth special rules, but non-Darkshroud models in a different Ravenwing Support Squadron may.)" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 And the argument can be spun the other way... A friendly Unit within 6" gets Stealth... The Darkshroud itself is a friendly unit but page 127 specifically excludes the Darkshroud so when the others join it they are within 6" too... But the intent is clear that they shouldnt have both...Remove man and add "FAQ" http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w20/fred40k2002/family/smilies/th%203.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 That is more of a rules lawyerer argument though, as other rules do not work that way (but yes, we agree). :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Angels Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 Had a hard discussion about ds-rules lately. my friends think its too OP and the rules as written are not clear. They belive, that only modells inside the bubble get no-overwatch, stealth and fear, althougt its written, that if only one modell per squad has the stealth-special-rule, then the whole squad gets it.So the question is now; when is a unity WITHIN 6 ''? does it apply every modell or only one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypher 102 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 The Icon of Old Caliban rule is pretty clear. Check the General Principles section for the rules covering when a unit is within x" of another unit. The Dark Shroud works like it's supposed to: on a unit, not on the individual models. The 6" bubble is not that big and if it were on a per model basis it would get real crowded, real fast. I don't even know how the no overwatch rule would work on a model by model basis. Besides if you're getting the benefit of the Dark Shroud by just one or two models then it's actually pretty easy for your opponent to take that away with a mobile unit with enough firepower or if your position of these models is bad. The Dark Shroud by itself is not your friends problem. It's the combination of all the Ravenwing rules together. I would agree with them about it being overpowered if it weren't for the fact that there is so much stuff in the game nowadays with the Ignore Cover rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 We have had an army that for too many years has just "rolled over" for other armies. Is it overpowered of us to just stay alive? You are reading it correctly and your friends are wrong. Sorry we aren't doormats anymore and you have to work to kill us now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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