Anti-tank Secutors

[Frater Cornelius]

I am debating what source of anti-tank I want for Mechanicum. I was considering to run a Legio Cybernetica list (or Taghmata with minimal Troops), then around 4 Castellax, a Thanatar (possibly Cynis), possibly a Land Raider with Rad-Engines and a unit of Destroyers either on foot with my Warlord and CHOOOM or without the Warlord in the aforementioned Raider with more cancer flamers.

 

I have most bases covered but anti-tank. I never really had much success with Thallax and I do not own any Krios yet. Secutors with Graviton came to mind. Do you think a unit of 3-5 or even two units of 3 with dual-grav are overkill? Should I mix weapons? Or get my reliable anti-tank from somewhere else?

 

Cheers ;)

[Slips]

You actually have a few Options for anti-tank.

 

Photon weapons come to mind but are "meh".

 

Darkfire Lances on Castellax is a very good choice but S7 Lance? Well, its 2 shots each.

 

I would not take the Lascannon Thanatar. 1 S10 Shot at 60" on a nearly 300 point platform? :\ I'd go instead for the Normal Thanatar since hit shot is Barrage, Large Blast and S8 Ap2 meaning it bypasses things like Flare Shields and has a wider application range.

 

40k Grav / Graviton Imploders are a solid choice, yeah. But, Auxiliary Drives are a thing and an opponent who gets caught once is unlikely to get caught again especially since Imploders/40k Grav bank on Stacked Immobilized Results to do damage.

 

You also still have Access to the Primaris Lightning and Artillery Tanks.

[Terminus]

You're talking about the Calix, that's the sad bloke with the lascannon and haywire flamer. The Cynis wouldn't actually be terrible, since it has 4 S8 AP2 shots, but 18" range means you will spend first turn or two running.

Dual grav-gun secutors would wreck vehicles, but are pretty mediocre against everything else and are very expensive. You will need a Triaros to get them around.

If you're going for a transported close-range death star to go with your warlord, I'd consider Myrmidon Destroyers with graviton imploders (closest thing we got to Centurions).

You can take Reductor Adepts, which is 135 points for two conversion beamers and 4 ablative T5 wounds.

The new Magos Ordinatus gets armourbane instead of tank-hunter, so actually turns the photon thruster into a scary anti tank gun (average roll glances AV14).

Krios Venators wreck face.

Darkfire Castellax can also do well against vehicles.

[Slips]

You're talking about the Calix, that's the sad bloke with the lascannon and haywire flamer. The Cynis wouldn't actually be terrible, since it has 4 S8 AP2 shots, but 18" range means you will spend first turn or two running.

Dual grav-gun secutors would wreck vehicles, but are pretty mediocre against everything else and are very expensive. You will need a Triaros to get them around.

If you're going for a transported close-range death star to go with your warlord, I'd consider Myrmidon Destroyers with graviton imploders (closest thing we got to Centurions).

You can take Reductor Adepts, which is 135 points for two conversion beamers and 4 ablative T5 wounds.

The new Magos Ordinatus gets armourbane instead of tank-hunter, so actually turns the photon thruster into a scary anti tank gun (average roll glances AV14).

Krios Venators wreck face.

Darkfire Castellax can also do well against vehicles.

...Look Between Calix and Cynis, they REALLY start to become similar >_> I have a hard time telling them apart since they both start with a C and end in a similar way ix and is :\

[Hesh Kadesh]

I can't recommend Krios Pulsars enough. They are just so much fun, to the extent where I'm beginning to try and work out how to include Mechanicum allies for that purpose alone. I'm not sure on how much more effective they are, but a Fast AV14 Tank with a BS4, 4 Shot S9 AP2 Ordnance weapon rips through even Monstrous Creatures.

 

The Lascannon Thanatar looks okayish. The fluff states that the Lascannon was meant to KO emplacements like an open topped basilik or medusa emplacement, as it advances while smashing in with its haywire template, and 3 S10 AP1 Armourbane Attacks. It's a Dreadnought killer, basically, and a fit combatant to a Leviathan. 

 

The Cynis is S8 without Barrage, so hits the targeted side, and is affected by Flare Shields. 4 Shots, assuming all shots hit vs AV14 without flare shield is getting 2 glances in 3 turns. By Turn 6, you may just have killed a Land Raider. You couldn't run either, it's lumbering advance.

 

Secutor Destructors are limited by their 18" range and Lumbering Advance, but they can pick up a Triaros. 3 with a Triaros comes in at 345pts, which brings a haywire Ram, and AV14 with a Flare Shield.

 

I can't actually see another use for the elites slot.

[Slips]

If only the Domitar had Faster Movement.

 

4+ S10 Ap2 Attacks with the grav hammers would be pretty awesome to punt vehicles with.

 

As it stands, hes WAAAAY too slow.

[Frater Cornelius]

Okay, the naming just for out of hand :D No, I am not running the Lascannon Thanatar. Either Plasma Mortar or the 4 shot guy, but probably the Mortar. Next to the Krios Venator, I really only see Graviton Guns as solid anti-tank. That is the Haywire one. I do not really care for Imploders because they are only 18" and do not get re-rolls to immobilize tanks. If I let the Destructors slog, better give them a weapon with decent range, namely Volkite.

 

So, if the 18" is an issue for the axe-wielding haywire-toting guys, why not stick them in the aforementioned Land Raider? Then they can also charge something with their axes when Haywire is not required. 30k is sports way too many options for tough vehicles to not include Haywire.

 

Or cause, I can also run 2 sets of Destroyers at the cost of the cancer flamer Land Raider and have the second unit carry Grav Imploders and have them ride a Triaros.

 

But other than that, I am running out of options. I think it basically comes down to one of the two Myrmidon options, seeing as I do not have the cash for a bunch of Krios tanks right now.

[Flint13]

^Keep in mind too that Myrmidon Destructors have Preferred Enemy (Everything!) with BS5. 

[Frater Cornelius]

But no dedicated anti-tank weapons, except Conversion Beamers, which are not good enough at opening Spartans or Knights.

[Theredknight]

Caleb looks ruinous for glancing a spartan to death..

[Terminus]

Okay, the naming just for out of hand No, I am not running the Lascannon Thanatar. Either Plasma Mortar or the 4 shot guy, but probably the Mortar. Next to the Krios Venator, I really only see Graviton Guns as solid anti-tank. That is the Haywire one. I do not really care for Imploders because they are only 18" and do not get re-rolls to immobilize tanks. If I let the Destructors slog, better give them a weapon with decent range, namely Volkite.

So, if the 18" is an issue for the axe-wielding haywire-toting guys, why not stick them in the aforementioned Land Raider? Then they can also charge something with their axes when Haywire is not required. 30k is sports way too many options for tough vehicles to not include Haywire.

Or cause, I can also run 2 sets of Destroyers at the cost of the cancer flamer Land Raider and have the second unit carry Grav Imploders and have them ride a Triaros.

But other than that, I am running out of options. I think it basically comes down to one of the two Myrmidon options, seeing as I do not have the cash for a bunch of Krios tanks right now.

If you're foot-slogging, yes, stick to Volkites for mass volume of wounds. Maybe stick a irad engine guy there just to keep riff-raff away.

Again, Secutors have a VERY narrow focus, and are very expensive. Also, Mechanicum don't get assault vehicle on their raider, plus now you're spending even more points to deliver a rather ineffectual unit into combat where they will either get tied up indefinitely (you lose, since undoubtedly you spent more), or just die like dogs (you lose again).

[Flint13]

I think people are missing the focus of Secutors a bit if they're using them unsupported for mainline combat.

 

They have Fusillade for a reason (ie, their two shooting weapons). Sure they don't get to assault the turn they pile out of a Raider or a Triaros, but that shouldn't be their main objective for the several points you have mentioned, Terminus. They are closer ranged fire support, at which they excel. I've had great results running three or four with one volkite and one plasma fusil in a Triaros. They pile out, kill a big chunk of a tactical or breacher squad, which then either has to try to avoid them (not likely) or assault them and get power axed (also not attractive). They aren't spectacular in close combat, so you can't expect them to kill much of anything that hasn't been whittled down first. 

 

If you want to make them more assault oriented, its totally doable as well. A Magos with the Myrmidax upgrade and a void shield harness adds two more shooting weapons to the squad, at least four more attacks from a Paragon blade or chainfist in close combat, gives them all hatred and rad grenades on the first round, and the void shield (when utilized properly) will serve wonderfully to protect them for that vital round after they've piled out of their transport and/or that first overwatch. Of course,  it is a points investment that you're building an army to support, that needs to be utilized properly, but its entirely feasible, fun and competitive. 

[Terminus]

I think people are missing the focus of Secutors a bit if they're using them unsupported for mainline combat.

 

They have Fusillade for a reason (ie, their two shooting weapons). Sure they don't get to assault the turn they pile out of a Raider or a Triaros, but that shouldn't be their main objective for the several points you have mentioned, Terminus. They are closer ranged fire support, at which they excel. I've had great results running three or four with one volkite and one plasma fusil in a Triaros. They pile out, kill a big chunk of a tactical or breacher squad, which then either has to try to avoid them (not likely) or assault them and get power axed (also not attractive). They aren't spectacular in close combat, so you can't expect them to kill much of anything that hasn't been whittled down first. 

 

If you want to make them more assault oriented, its totally doable as well. A Magos with the Myrmidax upgrade and a void shield harness adds two more shooting weapons to the squad, at least four more attacks from a Paragon blade or chainfist in close combat, gives them all hatred and rad grenades on the first round, and the void shield (when utilized properly) will serve wonderfully to protect them for that vital round after they've piled out of their transport and/or that first overwatch. Of course,  it is a points investment that you're building an army to support, that needs to be utilized properly, but its entirely feasible, fun and competitive. 

Everything you just mentioned is done infinitely better by Myrmidon Destroyers, both in shooting stuff to death and punching it in melee. In fact, the shooting them to death part is done infinitely better by pretty much everything else in the army for a fraction of the cost. I mean, for roughly the same cost you can bring 4 tricked out castellax robots, or two 6-man cohorts of Thallax with plasma fusils. And this is before you add the 250-300 point Magos you're describing.

 

Or hell, give that Explorator Raider a volkite culverin and sponson irad engines, and it will kill all the infantry itself.

 

No no, Secutors' unique niche they can fill is haywire. It's 210 points for three guys, same as a full rapier battery, except you don't have the T7 or range, so you need a transport. Triaros costs half as much as a Raider, so I'd lean in that direction. This actually isn't a terrible use of points if your meta has a lot of flare shields, and you can deal with their other unique niche, looking stupid (how you gonna swing that axe with those t-rex arms?). :P

 

Personally, I'm waiting for FW to write the rules that allows me to bring Skitarii.

[Frater Cornelius]

Still does not answer the question whether these guys are a waste of space or worth their points. This thread is not about looks or appeal. This is not about anti-infantry or whether they are better than Destroyers or whether axes are good or not. Does the performance justify their cost as tank hunters. That is the issue at hand.

[Terminus]

That question has been answered. They are currently the only source of haywire for 30K Mechanicum, and if you face a lot of flare-shielded AV14, that could be useful. Realistically, this means Spartans and Typhons. Given the short range of the Secutors, by the time you reach the Spartan, it has already achieved its purpose of delivering a deathstar in the middle of your lines. By the time you reach the Typhon, it's had 2-3 turns of firing upon you, so you may not have Secutors anymore. So you make the choice if that's acceptable performance, because they are pretty much a terrible investment for any other role.

 

Anything less than flare shielded AV14, you can more easily blow up with Krios Venators.

[Theredknight]

As

That question has been answered. They are currently the only source of haywire for 30K Mechanicum, and if you face a lot of flare-shielded AV14, that could be useful. Realistically, this means Spartans and Typhons. Given the short range of the Secutors, by the time you reach the Spartan, it has already achieved its purpose of delivering a deathstar in the middle of your lines. By the time you reach the Typhon, it's had 2-3 turns of firing upon you, so you may not have Secutors anymore. So you make the choice if that's acceptable performance, because they are pretty much a terrible investment for any other role.

 

Anything less than flare shielded AV14, you can more easily blow up with Krios Venators.

 

Again. Caleb decima 2d6 haywire shots. Also sunder and tank hunter naturally.

[Terminus]

Again. Caleb decima 2d6 haywire shots. Also sunder and tank hunter naturally.

Yes, let's not forget about good old Caleb (you mean Wrecker, not Sunder), especially now that he can become a relentless eternal warrior and bring an auxilia unit with him. You could potentially build a nasty anti-tank unit here. The two Adepts can take graviton guns, so there's two more haywire shots, and then the servitors can either be more ablative wounds or relentless tank-hunting multi-meltas. BS3, but still.

[Frater Cornelius]

 

Again. Caleb decima 2d6 haywire shots. Also sunder and tank hunter naturally.

Yes, let's not forget about good old Caleb (you mean Wrecker, not Sunder), especially now that he can become a relentless eternal warrior and bring an auxilia unit with him. You could potentially build a nasty anti-tank unit here. The two Adepts can take graviton guns, so there's two more haywire shots, and then the servitors can either be more ablative wounds or relentless tank-hunting multi-meltas. BS3, but still.

 

 

Hm, very good idea. However, I dislike that he must be your Warlord if I want to be him Relentless. This means I can not run the Archmagos Dominus and thus unable to run Ordo Reductor (I mean Cybernetica of cause :D). However, having him with an Auxilia unit might still be good enough. I will look what I can cook up.

[1ncarnadine]

You might want to note that Calleb is an Archmagos Reductor, and can be run as a Warlord for Taghmata or Reductor under that rule :P

[Frater Cornelius]

You might want to note that Calleb is an Archmagos Reductor, and can be run as a Warlord for Taghmata or Reductor under that rule

My bad, I meant Cybernetica. I was reading about Reductor and accidentally typed that one out. No, I am running Cybernetica, mainly because none of the Troop choices apart from the Castellax really impressed me in my games. Plus the addition range for the cybermagics.

[Brofist]

Good luck running an army without any scoring units :( Are you taking anything besides the castallax in your troops slots?

[Frater Cornelius]

Nothing. Good point I suppose. I keep forgetting that AoD ruleset has limitations on what is scoring. Eugh. Too much 40k. But then again, there is literally nothing that worked for me in the Troops slot. I suppose I could run Taghmata and unlock Auxilia as Troops for some Tank-Hunting goodness.