Using Cataphractii: How many combi-weapons and chainfists?

[Wolfbiter]

Hi folks. I have a question about Cataphractii Terminators. Since they have a good Invulnerable save and I have the option of deep-striking them for a Night Lords army list I'm building, I was thinking of giving the squad of 5 I'm building combi-meltas and chainfists to give them more punch against vehicles. For those of you who have used them in this role, how many of each type of weapon would you recommend for a squad of 5? Thanks!

[GreyCrow]

Think about what you want your squad to do, ask yourself if there aren't more efficient alternatives, then gear up your squad for that ;)

[Hesh Kadesh]

Depends what you're doing with them. If slapped in a Transport and you're wanting them to assault, don't shoot them. It only makes it harder for yourself to get in CC. 

 

They can't overwatch because Slow and Purposeful, so combi-flamers lose their allure - UNLESS you are playing either Orbital Assault, Night Lords, or Imperial Fists, who can deep strike without needing a pod (and because you still can't assault on Deep Strike, and no pod available for Terminators and no pod with Fire Points), you can Deep Strike the Cata's and hope the scatter doesn't kill you, before unloading a half dozen flamers on the enemy unit which you then assault the next turn. Might as well take a Heavy Flamer in that instance as well.

 

Melta/Plasma; see above. But a unit with all Fists and Plasma/Melta just eats other terminators alive. Deathshroud and Firedrakes melt under a concerted effort.

 

As for Chainfists, In a 5 Man squad, 2, in a 10 man squad 3, because you can shield better in a 10 Man Squad and although it's only 5 points, it helps save them. You can always add more in later.

 

That said, there are always better units in Cataphract Armour out there, and those that don't usually get more use out of a Terminator Squad which can run and use Implacable advance, or get into a more useful position with their power weapons.

 

Red Butchers, Deathshroud, Firedrakes, Lernaeans, Tyrants are all better. Imperial Fists get Deep Striking Storm Shields and Power Weapons which can be a pain, but they cost 240pts for that benefit, nor can they get T5 because Stone Gauntlet is potatoed. Justaerin are priced for 5 (and even then stretching) but only have 3 men in the squad, Fulmentarus cost too much for what they bring. 

[Gorgoff]

I played CSM for quiete a long time and often used Kamikaze units like deep striking Terminators and I can tell you that three Melters are enough. Plus one Power Axe on the Sergeant and Power Maces on the other dudes.

They go in, kill a tank and then get shot to death by small arms fire. If they survive they can kill another tank with their maces. Only because you allways have to take at least five in a unit I would recommand one chainfist. That'll get the job done.

[helterskelter]

I'm running a 10 man in my pride night Lords list with transponder for deep strike loveliness, taking 2 chain fist, 5 combi melta and sprinkling some axes in there for fun. Should be a reasonable take on all comers unit, just have to be careful as possible on placement

[Gorgoff]

I'm running a 10 man in my pride night Lords list with transponder for deep strike loveliness, taking 2 chain fist, 5 combi melta and sprinkling some axes in there for fun. Should be a reasonable take on all comers unit, just have to be careful as possible on placement

Like I said those units tend to die in small arms fire.

Which unit can bring a hell lot of shots AND can get an augury scanner.....

CHOOOOOOM CHOOOOOOOM CHOOOOOOM. ;)

[helterskelter]

 

I'm running a 10 man in my pride night Lords list with transponder for deep strike loveliness, taking 2 chain fist, 5 combi melta and sprinkling some axes in there for fun. Should be a reasonable take on all comers unit, just have to be careful as possible on placement

Like I said those units tend to die in small arms fire.

Which unit can bring a hell lot of shots AND can get an augury scanner.....

CHOOOOOOM CHOOOOOOOM CHOOOOOOM. ;)

Avoid the apothecary tac blobs and anything I think has interceptor was the general idea :p hopefully the small arms units are tied up with the void harness praetor and 15 night raptors, or shredded by the leviathan, or whirlwind scorpius'd to death :p

[GreyCrow]

Yeah, and doesn't the Augury Scanner allows to intercept only at 18" ?

 

Besides, assuming it's a heavy support squad with Volkite Culverins at 10 men, it's "only" going to kill 4 men on average and that's with 40 shots :p Plasma feels like a better alternative, tee hee ! (And now I'm imagining a Heavy Support Squad with augury scanner, 10 Plasma Cannons and Siege Breaker for Tank Hunters and Wrecker, the anti-deep strike porcupine, oh yisssss, murder ALL THE THINGS :p ).

 

But I agree with Helterskelter, when Deep Striking infantry, go big or go home at full size games.

[RandomMarine]

I have 10 with combined plas and axes for anti teq and 5 with combi bolter and single claw coz rule of cool

[Sheesh Mode]

Hi folks. I have a question about Cataphractii Terminators. Since they have a good Invulnerable save and I have the option of deep-striking them for a Night Lords army list I'm building, I was thinking of giving the squad of 5 I'm building combi-meltas and chainfists to give them more punch against vehicles. For those of you who have used them in this role, how many of each type of weapon would you recommend for a squad of 5? Thanks!

What legion are you using? Cataphractii are suited for an anti-vehicle role when fielded by the Sons of Horus because they can mount a dreadclaw to assault turn two or turn three. Further, Reavers already accomplish the anti-infantry role, and it is worth noting that terminators are more expensive when equipped to effectively eliminate enemy infantry. 

 

In my experience terminators are built to accomplish the following: Eliminate elite infantry, eliminate heavy vehicles, eliminate monstrous creatures. They are durable enough to weather attacks from Thanatar, Castellax, Palatine Blades, and Templar Breatheren yet can also utilize a large number of attacks when charging. Three terminators armed with chainfists will hit six out of nine times when assaulting a vehicle. Their primary target - the enemy Lord of War - will be penetrated 3.500 times and glanced .833 times totaling to 4.333 hull points removed from the target. According to mathhammer there is a 75.3% chance that five man terminator unit will destroy its target. So, essentially, a 215pt unit is capable of destroying a 350pt unit or higher. So much for that Typhon.

 

Determine the role your terminators play within your legion's strategies and equip them accordingly. 

[Caillum]

Cataphractii are suited for an anti-vehicle role when fielded by the Sons of Horus because they can mount a dreadclaw to assault turn two or turn three.

All Terminators-amoured units of 5 or less models can take a Dreadclaw, not just SoH.

 

But it's a good point. They aren't a top-tier unit, but if you focus them on a role (like anti-tank) they will perform fine.

[Hesh Kadesh]

But they take up Fast Attack slots. Soh have them as DT.

[Caillum]

No, they don't Hesh. They CAN be taken as Fast Attack, but also as Dedicated Transports for Terminator-equipped units of 5 models or less, for any Legion. Any of them! :) Grave Wardens, Firedrakes taken as a boyguard for Vulkan, World Eaters Terminator Command Squads, etc.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Early morning brainfart!

[Slips]

Early morning brainfart!

The best kind! and the ones everybody is susceptible to!

[depthcharge12]

 

 

Early morning brainfart!

The best kind! and the ones everybody is susceptible to!

CRUCIFY HIM! CRUCIFY HIM!!!

 

Jk I still love the Justaerin, and think they'd be great to nuke something like a Spartan with all their meltas, and then charge the occupants. Yes they're pricy, but they can get some work done coming out of a dreadclaw.

 

I've been considering taking a 5 man vanilla terminator combi plas squad in a dreadclaw since they can put out 10 shots at double tap and are actually super cheap compared to a plasma support squad that'll likely die after unloading a fusillade anyway. This way you have a durable assault unit too that can put a dent in those pricy unique terminator squads.

[Hesh Kadesh]

95pts a model is very pricy when the only thing keeping you alive is a 2+/4++ and the spartan is running Armoured Ceramite (it will be).

[Sheesh Mode]

 

 

Early morning brainfart!

The best kind! and the ones everybody is susceptible to!

CRUCIFY HIM! CRUCIFY HIM!!!

 

Jk I still love the Justaerin, and think they'd be great to nuke something like a Spartan with all their meltas, and then charge the occupants. Yes they're pricy, but they can get some work done coming out of a dreadclaw.

 

I've been considering taking a 5 man vanilla terminator combi plas squad in a dreadclaw since they can put out 10 shots at double tap and are actually super cheap compared to a plasma support squad that'll likely die after unloading a fusillade anyway. This way you have a durable assault unit too that can put a dent in those pricy unique terminator squads.

 

Why take 5 when you can take three, arm them with chain fists, and stick them in a dreadclaw to hunt tanks? It comes out to around 335pts and is a more effective option than melta-support squads.

[Black_out]

For my NL if a group of 5, I run 2-3 chainfists. If a group of 10 I take 3-4, maybe even more depending on what I might face. Combi-melta I keep to 2 or 3 max again unless I'm facing deathshroud or firedrakes etc. The abundance of armored ceramite really keeps me away from running much more. Everything else is just a smattering of power swords & axes.

[depthcharge12]

 

 

 

 

Early morning brainfart!

The best kind! and the ones everybody is susceptible to!

CRUCIFY HIM! CRUCIFY HIM!!!

 

Jk I still love the Justaerin, and think they'd be great to nuke something like a Spartan with all their meltas, and then charge the occupants. Yes they're pricy, but they can get some work done coming out of a dreadclaw.

 

I've been considering taking a 5 man vanilla terminator combi plas squad in a dreadclaw since they can put out 10 shots at double tap and are actually super cheap compared to a plasma support squad that'll likely die after unloading a fusillade anyway. This way you have a durable assault unit too that can put a dent in those pricy unique terminator squads.

Why take 5 when you can take three, arm them with chain fists, and stick them in a dreadclaw to hunt tanks? It comes out to around 335pts and is a more effective option than melta-support squads.

I honestly love the mm for the aesthetics and the range, but honestly, you'd be better off with more combi meltas. Definitely at least 2 chainfists as you'll have S9 plus armorbane on the charge. Warlord Titans weep when they see this.

 

I wouldn't worry about getting merciless fighters with this unit, and you shoul probably be rocking axes or fists anyway. I'd honestly make it a 4 man honor guard squad with a delegatus in the Primus armor and another fist or axe. Give everyone a combi Melta and some fists/chainfists and watch the unit eat thru your enemy's Death Star unit.

[Sheesh Mode]

You do not need combi-meltas to destroy vehicles. Given the potential for armored ceramite combis are potentially wasteful. 

[depthcharge12]

True but I haven't seen a lot of people take armored ceramite in 2000 point lists, it's a bit of a crunch. Not to mention the lack of Melta in the meta, which lead people to drop the upgrade as it becomes a point sink insurance policy.

 

I just like to shake things up in potential list so it doesn't become rock paper deredeo :D

[Wolfbiter]

Thanks for the responses. Just to clarify, this is for my planned Night Lords army using Sevatar, so the Terminators would Deep Strike and use Sevatar's Master of the Atramentar ability to avoid scatter. I want to gear them as anti-vehicle/anti-TEQ support until I can expand my army with heavier anti-vehicle weapons.