Adeptus Titanicus: 30k Titan Tacticia

[Athrawes]

Adeptus Titanicus: 30k Titan Tacticia

 

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i327/nickfayette1/Divisio_Militaris_symbol_1.jpg

 

Welcome to the Titan Tacticia. A place to discuss the tactics of commanding these god-machines on the battlefields of the Horus Heresy.

 

 This topic is for comparing the benefits of the new armaments and weapon combinations in different tactical situations, discussing Titan on Titan combat, and even the strategies of combating Titans with mundane forces and other Super Heavy Vehicles.

 

With the release of Horus Heresy Book V: Tempest, Titans have undergone some pretty drastic changes. 

 

I've been searching around the web for a few months now looking for a tacticia detailing the new titans, but all I can ever find are discussions dealing with the older apocalypse versions and armaments. 

 

This Topic is meant to address that deficiency.

 

There have been a handful of topics discussing how to take down individual Engines:

 

How to KIll a Warhound Titan

 

How to Kill a Warlord

 

These are a good place to start, but I was hoping to create a more comprehensive topic for discussion of the use, and combating of God Machines.

 

 

+++

 

 

To get the ball rolling, Depthcharge12 and I are gearing up for titan combat this winter. His Reaver and Knights Acheron and Atrepos Against my Warlord. While Both of us will be supporting our Engines with 3000 point armies. We both know that the odds are stacked slightly against anything attacking a Warlord,  but I was hoping for some helpful discussion on how to take down a behemoth like the Warlord with such a force to help make our games truly Titanic.  

[Jolemai]

Standard practice is the take down the void shields (6) with things like autocannons, krak missiles, etc, and then hit it with a shot from either a Cerberus, Valdor or Sicaran Venator. Rinse and repeat.

 

Also, a Knight can potentially do a number on it in combat but I do realise that it will need to be buffed somewhat. Also, it's unlikely that anyone will ever take the close combat option on the Warlord.

 

***

 

As an aside, how do folk rule the Warhound Inferno Gun on a Reaver following the Towering Monstrosity (Reaver) rules? Measure from the base? Houserule it to have Torrent? Obviously my group has asked FW about this but you can guess their reply...

[Athrawes]

 

 

Also, a Knight can potentially do a number on it in combat but I do realise that it will need to be buffed somewhat. Also, it's unlikely that anyone will ever take the close combat option on the Warlord.

 

 

Funnily enough, my ideal setup on the Warlord (for when the weapons are released) are two shoulder mounted reaver laser Blasters, an arm mounted Sunfury Plasma Anhilalator, and an arm mounted saturnyne lascutter. I think the Warlord CC weapons are only going to be chosen when you know you'll be fighting other titans or knights in CC. Honestly, I want people to enjoy playing games against the Titan so I want to avoid the ranged D weapon spam (even though it is devastating) that the warlord comes with stock.

 

 

 

As an aside, how do folk rule the Warhound Inferno Gun on a Reaver following the Towering Monstrosity (Reaver) rules? Measure from the base? Houserule it to have Torrent? Obviously my group has asked FW about this but you can guess their reply...

 

Interesting. I'd never heard of the Inferno gun issue, but now that I think about it youre write as the rules are written it can work (except against gargantuan monstrous creatures)

 

I think there are probably two reasonable house rules for that carapace weapon set up. 

 

1.) do as you suggest, measure the weapon from the base of the tip of the gun and just ignore the towering beheoth rule for the Inferno gun.

 

or

 

2.) Give the inferno gun a range of 18" torrent so the hellstorm template can be placed outside of the Reavers Towering Behemoth, "no fire zone."

 

Honestly, i'd favor option 1 as giving the gun 18" of range could make it very killy.

[helterskelter]

Anthrawes: how would your most (in)famous tactic work on them, with better weapons obviously. As a takedown tactic casting the malediction power from divination (no books to hand so can't remember it's name) then unleashing all kinds of cheaper less specialised weapons on the titan? Backed up probably by something with tank hunter just to make sure

[Reyner]

How about Caleb Decima with his crazy haywire pile of dice attack? If you can get him close enough without being vaporized :D 

[Jolemai]

The Warlord is completely immune to all forms of Haywire attack.

[Reyner]

The Warlord is completely immune to all forms of Haywire attack.

Ah well then. 

[God-Potato of Mankind]

How effective are Falchion against Titans?

[Caillum]

As good as anything I suppose. I think you need Armourbane attacks to make a serious dent in it. Leman Russ Vanquisher squadrons, melta bombs, chainfists, Primaris-Lightnings with Kraken penetrators, etc.

[Jolemai]

How effective are Falchion against Titans?

 

Better than a Shadowsword would be, but it still depends on that roll on the Destroyer table (it should be noted that the sponsons will knock some HPs off too) and whether or not the Warlord makes its 5++. The thing is, unless you hit it with something that can apply Shock Pulse (see my earlier reply) then your Falchion/Shadowsword/whatever isn't going to get a second chance to attack it.

 

*** *** ***

What Flyer would be the best counter?

[Slips]

For flyers, probably a Stormbird with the unlimited Orbital Bombardments at S:D upgrade.

 

Even if you scatter full distance your unlikely to miss a Warlord. The others you might though.

 

It also has 5 TL lascannons and is probably the toughest flyer around as of now.

[depthcharge12]

I'm actually curious how one would measure base distance for close combat between Titans? There's no base size and Titan on Titan action is a bit difficult to gauge.

 

@Jolemai

Bruh, I am assaulting his warlord with everything I've got. Since I can't outshoot him, I need to get to a spot where I can corner him and beat the snot out of him with D ccws, depriving him the ability to shoot at me. Sure he can try to move away and shoot, but tables aren't that large to accommodate that sort of movement, and he might wind up shooting himself as much as me :P

 

Also...jetbikes with melta bombs hit on their own weapon skill and are blazing fast :devil:

 

I guess the tactic I'm trying to advocate is to get within the Warlord's firing arc so it can't shoot the shoulder carapace weapons inside 18" I believe.

 

On a note with the warlord, there is a particularly naughty thing you can do towards Knights, since you have world burner, you can place the blast template behind them because they must declare which way their shield is before the enemy fires. Since the blast is hitting them from behind, they don't get their shield save. Or if they put the shield behind them, you can just shoot them in the front to the same effect with D weapons with no chance of a ++.

[Jolemai]

I'm actually curious how one would measure base distance for close combat between Titans? There's no base size and Titan on Titan action is a bit difficult to gauge.

@Jolemai

Bruh, I am assaulting his warlord with everything I've got. Since I can't outshoot him, I need to get to a spot where I can corner him and beat the snot out of him with D ccws, depriving him the ability to shoot at me. Sure he can try to move away and shoot, but tables aren't that large to accommodate that sort of movement, and he might wind up shooting himself as much as me

Hitting a Warlord on 5s

Also...jetbikes with melta bombs hit on their own weapon skill and are blazing fast

Hitting a Warlord on 6s

I guess the tactic I'm trying to advocate is to get within the Warlord's firing arc so it can't shoot the shoulder carapace weapons inside 18" I believe.

Very good point, especially if it's running a close combat weapon. If behind you still have to contend with the auxilliary weapons which also fire Overwatch!

On a note with the warlord, there is a particularly naughty thing you can do towards Knights, since you have world burner, you can place the blast template behind them because they must declare which way their shield is before the enemy fires. Since the blast is hitting them from behind, they don't get their shield save. Or if they put the shield behind them, you can just shoot them in the front to the same effect with D weapons with no chance of a ++.

[depthcharge12]

Hitting in cc on 5's is still better than getting blasted into oblivion :P it levels the playing fields.

 

And no, jetbikes hit on regular WS due to the rules since they are not infantry or bikes. Jetbikes are their own class and not listed as the subset that hits on a 6+ ;) maybe it was a minor undersight, but it makes sense that they can fly up to a Warlord's face and chuck melta bombs on it.

[Jolemai]

Hitting in cc on 5's is still better than getting blasted into oblivion it levels the playing fields.

And no, jetbikes hit on regular WS due to the rules since they are not infantry or bikes. Jetbikes are their own class and not listed as the subset that hits on a 6+ maybe it was a minor undersight, but it makes sense that they can fly up to a Warlord's face and chuck melta bombs on it.

lol - guess what I'm telling my Eldar friend ;)

[1ncarnadine]

Hitting in cc on 5's is still better than getting blasted into oblivion it levels the playing fields.

And no, jetbikes hit on regular WS due to the rules since they are not infantry or bikes. Jetbikes are their own class and not listed as the subset that hits on a 6+ maybe it was a minor undersight, but it makes sense that they can fly up to a Warlord's face and chuck melta bombs on it.

It's probably an oversight, since flying monstrous creatures, jump pack and jet pack infantry are on 6's and you'd think those would make sense. Still, RAW for now!

So Sicarans might be a good idea to throw around the Warlord's feet? They can keep up with its movement and bring down jetbikes that get near :P I doubt many 30k players have more than maybe 9-12 jetbikes total, so if you kill those and any Cerberus/Venators you'll force people to fight the Warlord on its terms. Which is probably favorable for the Warlord.

[Athrawes]

Hitting in cc on 5's is still better than getting blasted into oblivion it levels the playing fields.

And no, jetbikes hit on regular WS due to the rules since they are not infantry or bikes. Jetbikes are their own class and not listed as the subset that hits on a 6+ maybe it was a minor undersight, but it makes sense that they can fly up to a Warlord's face and chuck melta bombs on it.

It's probably an oversight, since flying monstrous creatures, jump pack and jet pack infantry are on 6's and you'd think those would make sense. Still, RAW for now!

So Sicarans might be a good idea to throw around the Warlord's feet? They can keep up with its movement and bring down jetbikes that get near I doubt many 30k players have more than maybe 9-12 jetbikes total, so if you kill those and any Cerberus/Venators you'll force people to fight the Warlord on its terms. Which is probably favorable for the Warlord.

That seems like a good target priority, also, as the rules stand now, I believe Walkers (like dreadnoughts) strike at normal WS, so A few leviathan Dreadnoughts drop podding in around it to trap it seems like a good idea. The titan has to destroy the pods or it is trapped, which should be hard to do if you can land them close to it. Even if it does stomp the pods away, the dreads should survive and 3 Levi's assaulting it from all sides should prove a pretty dire distraction while the opponents engines and super heavies are allowed some breathing room to close range.

Edit: I do believe that walkers and jetbikes are a rules oversight, but until it changes they are perfectly viable units against titans.

[depthcharge12]

I don't think anything hits the Warlord on rear armor though in cc due to it being a walker, so it's that extra AV that might make the difference when not using D ccws.

 

If they do release the Arioch power claw and plasma annihilator, I might have to bend in and get a warlord haha.

 

Comparatively between the power claw and the Saturnyne Lascutter, I think the Lascutter comes out on top since you can use it as a defense weapon with hellstorm on top of giving instant death and machine destroyer. The claw really only gives one extra attack bonus over the Lascutter.

[Slips]

The Warlord shouldbt have much problem clearing the way in front of it with 5" Stomps.

 

Its also base S:D so even with no CCW it can punch pretty good.

[Athrawes]

An interesting point that I figured out while building the Warlord, is that while the Ardex Bolt Cannons and Ardex Lascannons are situated fore and aft on the hull, they both have 360 arc, and are positioned on the model in such a way that they both have a very clear view through the gap between the warlords arms. 

 

This means that the warlord has a fair chance to bring all 4 guns to bear on a target more than 18" away. They are particularly useful against flyers. I played a game against a flyer heavy list, and the Ardex weapons were a god send. 2 Str 9 twinlinked lascannons which snap fire and overwatch at BS 2, and 12 str 6 Bolt round again snap/overwatching BS 2, means you have a solid chance to take on flyers with AV 12 or lower. And flyers are some of the hardest opponents for titans to deal with unsupported.

 

Edit: Also Depthcharge, the warlord Carapace weapons have a 24" no fire zone, not 18" like the reaver. But just to be clear, the carapace weapons can always fire against other super heavy walkers and SH vehicles.

[depthcharge12]

Ah that makes more sense in a realistic perspective, but you can still bum rush them and hope the warlord scatters on to its own units :D

[Slips]

The Warlord explodes in a 36" Bubble. Not a lot of things can avoid that especially if you roll the D/D/D Result.

[Athrawes]

The Warlord explodes in a 36" Bubble. Not a lot of things can avoid that especially if you roll the D/D/D Result

 

 

It really depends on the size of the table, but you are still absolutely correct that in an apocalypse size game of 30k, and exploding warlord will wreck stuff. Which is why I think it makes sense to deploy aggressively with it. It can move 12" a turn so there is no reason not to rush it center of board. Use your arm weapons for infantry and non super heavy vehicles, and leave your carapace weapons for super heavy busting.

 

That way you don't need to worry about the carapace no fire zone. It also means that if your Warlord falls, it will likely take a sizable chunk of your opponents army with it. Not ideal, obviously, but there really isn't much of a down side (that I can see) to using your warlord titan as an aggressive battering ram.

 

It seems tailor made for getting into your enemies deployment zone and stomping stuff to death, using the the  lascutter and Plasma annihilator on the arms will help destroy the infantry around it (not to mention the Ardex weapons), while the shoulder mounted laser blasters can swivel to take on super heavies that pose a threat to the titan and your supporting forces.

[Demonknight]

What are your favorite armaments for them and why? Warhound, Reaver & Warlord?

[Demonknight]

What do you guys think about equipping the reaver with a power fist? My thought is to use it against other super heavies, knights etc. So my build would be laser blaster, power fist and plasma blastgun.