Adeptus Titanicus: 30k Titan Tacticia

[depthcharge12]

They're actually pretty good on paper for killing void shields, but may be a poor choice. Then again, if you wanted to obliterate marines, you could take a Scorpius and be happy.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Tactically how would you guys use any of the titans? Set up on the middle where it can see all (and trust to its shield and armour) or refused flank?

 

Also do you advance into the enemy or keep to your deployment zone lobbing blasts?

[Slips]

Depends on the Titan.

 

Warhounds are pretty Fragile being 14/13/12 (I think?) so you would want them on a Flank unless you can bubble wrap them.

 

Reavers are a bit beefier so can do either.

 

Warlords dont give a damn and do what they want.

[noigrim]

How can I beat a normal marine army with a reaver at 1500, I mean his units'll be all over the place seizing objectives and a lone scout can steal an objective from my titan in the last turn.

 

And what would you put on the carapace?

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Ive seen more warhounds than reavers or warlords.....

 

Hmm bubble wrapping. What sort of units would be idea in this role? Given that a warhound could easily out pace most models

[Slips]

...A single Reaver isnt even capable of being 1500 if you take some of the better weapons.

 

Also, why would you use a single Titan vs an Army? Thats not even remotely the point of using a Titan. They're not armies unto themselves, they're centerpieces for a massive army.

 

I mean, theres a reason why they were originally introduced in Apocalypse and not Standard 40k "here you go" fashion.

Ive seen more warhounds than reavers or warlords.....

Hmm bubble wrapping. What sort of units would be idea in this role? Given that a warhound could easily out pace most models

Imperial Militia Inducted Levy Squads. Warhound Wont Move, ever due to the bodies, but, no one'll get to it short of an Apocalyptic Blast nuking them all of the face of the earth.

[CommodusXIII]

There's a mission in Escalation that you can adapt to 30K, if you really want to field a lone Titan. Not being able to win a standard mission without any support is actually a good thing, in my opinion. It's not what they were built for, but could make for a very fun and cinematic mission.

 

Above all, be sure to talk it over with your opponent. Dropping a Titan on the table without warning is a good way to narrow down your pool of future games.

[depthcharge12]

Ok, so Athrawes and I played a game and a few scenarios between his Warlord and my Reaver/2 Knights both with legion supporting lists.

 

What we derived from this game was a better adjustment to a 6 on the D chart and a few other things regarding Titan combat. The first - switch a 6 on the chart from a d6+6 to d6+2 still ignoring ++ saves as usual. Now this sounds like a major downgrade, but after playing through some scenarios, we found it greatly alters play towards balance and not wildly destructive weapons at random (sorry if this sounds like word vomit, I don't feel like grammar today).

 

Second - combat between Titans (Warlord, Reaver, and warhound) should hit based upon WS and not the 5+ stupidity. It makes a hell of a lot of sense for non Titan models, but between them, it should be on regular WS, and speeds the game up with balance in mind.

 

Third - we house ruled the Reaver to have +1 attack in cc with a Titan close combat weapon as the Warlord gets it, yet the Reaver does not since it has copy pasted rules from years ago. Makes it more deadly in combat.

 

Fourth - Athrawes was a sport the whole game no doubt, but I have a point of contention over the 5++ rule the Warlord has. Athrawes believes the Warlord should have it in cc, yet I think it is only against shooting attacks. It doesn't explicitly state shooting attacks only, but it says "hits after the void shields have been breached" which leads me to believe shooting attacks, since cc attacks completely ignore the shields whether they're there or not.

[1ncarnadine]

Ok, so Athrawes and I played a game and a few scenarios between his Warlord and my Reaver/2 Knights both with legion supporting lists.

 

What we derived from this game was a better adjustment to a 6 on the D chart and a few other things regarding Titan combat. The first - switch a 6 on the chart from a d6+6 to d6+2 still ignoring ++ saves as usual. Now this sounds like a major downgrade, but after playing through some scenarios, we found it greatly alters play towards balance and not wildly destructive weapons at random (sorry if this sounds like word vomit, I don't feel like grammar today).

 

Second - combat between Titans (Warlord, Reaver, and warhound) should hit based upon WS and not the 5+ stupidity. It makes a hell of a lot of sense for non Titan models, but between them, it should be on regular WS, and speeds the game up with balance in mind.

 

Third - we house ruled the Reaver to have +1 attack in cc with a Titan close combat weapon as the Warlord gets it, yet the Reaver does not since it has copy pasted rules from years ago. Makes it more deadly in combat.

 

Fourth - Athrawes was a sport the whole game no doubt, but I have a point of contention over the 5++ rule the Warlord has. Athrawes believes the Warlord should have it in cc, yet I think it is only against shooting attacks. It doesn't explicitly state shooting attacks only, but it says "hits after the void shields have been breached" which leads me to believe shooting attacks, since cc attacks completely ignore the shields whether they're there or not.

 

1) You could always use the optional S:D rules in LACAL too? Although I can't help but notice they didn't include the optional rules in Books 4, 5 or the Taghmata book so maybe they don't support that anymore. Still, worth considering. 

 

2) Yeah this is a weird one. Whatever works for you, sounds ok to me

 

3) Makes sense to me. Reavers taking the power fist option seem pretty crippled in their damage output vs literally any other choice barring the chainfist.

 

4) I think this is an absolute 5++ too tbh. Technically, being in cc is breaching the void shields in my head, but the wording is ambiguous enough. If you're using the LACAL S:D rules, all the titan CCW attacks will force rerolls on invuln saves anyway + the Reaver's init advantage should make it a fair run.

 

In other news how are people thinking of the Arioch claw now that it probably comes with a free Vulcan Mega-Bolter? If I'm reading it right, and you run it as Leviathan force org and include the Ardex Mauler Cannons, you can overwatch with up to 27 S6 AP3 shots per turn (12 of which are BS2)

[depthcharge12]

 

Ok, so Athrawes and I played a game and a few scenarios between his Warlord and my Reaver/2 Knights both with legion supporting lists.

What we derived from this game was a better adjustment to a 6 on the D chart and a few other things regarding Titan combat. The first - switch a 6 on the chart from a d6+6 to d6+2 still ignoring ++ saves as usual. Now this sounds like a major downgrade, but after playing through some scenarios, we found it greatly alters play towards balance and not wildly destructive weapons at random (sorry if this sounds like word vomit, I don't feel like grammar today).

Second - combat between Titans (Warlord, Reaver, and warhound) should hit based upon WS and not the 5+ stupidity. It makes a hell of a lot of sense for non Titan models, but between them, it should be on regular WS, and speeds the game up with balance in mind.

Third - we house ruled the Reaver to have +1 attack in cc with a Titan close combat weapon as the Warlord gets it, yet the Reaver does not since it has copy pasted rules from years ago. Makes it more deadly in combat.

Fourth - Athrawes was a sport the whole game no doubt, but I have a point of contention over the 5++ rule the Warlord has. Athrawes believes the Warlord should have it in cc, yet I think it is only against shooting attacks. It doesn't explicitly state shooting attacks only, but it says "hits after the void shields have been breached" which leads me to believe shooting attacks, since cc attacks completely ignore the shields whether they're there or not.

 

 

1) You could always use the optional S:D rules in LACAL too? Although I can't help but notice they didn't include the optional rules in Books 4, 5 or the Taghmata book so maybe they don't support that anymore. Still, worth considering. 

 

2) Yeah this is a weird one. Whatever works for you, sounds ok to me

 

3) Makes sense to me. Reavers taking the power fist option seem pretty crippled in their damage output vs literally any other choice barring the chainfist.

 

4) I think this is an absolute 5++ too tbh. Technically, being in cc is breaching the void shields in my head, but the wording is ambiguous enough. If you're using the LACAL S:D rules, all the titan CCW attacks will force rerolls on invuln saves anyway + the Reaver's init advantage should make it a fair run.

 

In other news how are people thinking of the Arioch claw now that it probably comes with a free Vulcan Mega-Bolter? If I'm reading it right, and you run it as Leviathan force org and include the Ardex Mauler Cannons, you can overwatch with up to 27 S6 AP3 shots per turn (12 of which are BS2)

I honestly give so much crap to Athrawes since he runs this load out now, but my original load out for a Warlord would be a Plasma Annihilator and an Arioch claw, and the game proved how valuable it was. The extra attack plus the reroll on the D chart of 1's for cc is super useful as the only thing that'll make it to cc with you will be Knights or another titan. Dreadnoughts you can stomp off the board, and anything else inconsequential will get shot off.

 

 

As to the 5++, it is a bit balanced, as 9/10 times a reaver and 2 Knights will kill a Warlord at the cost of a Reaver and a knight.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Being fair, an equal points of cost of Knight Acherons would kill it too, presuming they all got to charge.

[Athrawes]

On the matter of the Warlords 5++, I feel the wording was an attempt by forgeworld to say the Model has 5++, but that the  5++ doesn't effect the Void shields. Pretty much attacks that bypass the void shield, (either after they drop, or in CC where they don't function) get a 5++ save.

 

I have been running a proxy Arioch Claw and I like it, makes the Warlord more effective in CC, and if we get a Megabolter added to it, I think it will be a must take option (At least when not fighting other warlords). I don't think that the Mega bolter is able to overwatch though. The Ardex mauler Bolt Cannons in their rules specify that they can overwatch, even though the model they are on normal cannot.

[depthcharge12]

Being fair, an equal points of cost of Knight Acherons would kill it too, presuming they all got to charge.

I ran an Atrapos (Seneshal? The highest upgrade) plus an Acheron and a Reaver. Honestly the Gravity Singularity cannon didn't do much, but the Lascutter wired well in cc and the one shot it got in. I honestly think the unit was better than the Acheron, but that one is more well rounded.

[1ncarnadine]

On the matter of the Warlords 5++, I feel the wording was an attempt by forgeworld to say the Model has 5++, but that the  5++ doesn't effect the Void shields. Pretty much attacks that bypass the void shield, (either after they drop, or in CC where they don't function) get a 5++ save.

 

I have been running a proxy Arioch Claw and I like it, makes the Warlord more effective in CC, and if we get a Megabolter added to it, I think it will be a must take option (At least when not fighting other warlords). I don't think that the Mega bolter is able to overwatch though. The Ardex mauler Bolt Cannons in their rules specify that they can overwatch, even though the model they are on normal cannot.

 

Yeah I agree on the 5++, that's how I read it.

 

RE: Overwatching, I was referring to the Leviathan Force Org on that one, where your Leviathan LoW choice gets Overwatch on all non-Primary Weapon or Blast type weapons via the Legendary Destroyer bonus. The Warlord is also your Warlord, so that's fun.

 

edit: oh crap I just noticed the Warlord would get Tank Hunters and Monster Hunter too, plus units taking Fear tests against it roll an extra D6 and discard the lowest result. Good luck getting anyone to agree to play vs a Warlord as Leviathan force org though :P It would be a very silly game.

[Athrawes]

That is downright nasty. i overlook the Leviathan chart, but for apocalypse sized games, it might be fun to make the Warlord 'extra killy'

[1ncarnadine]

That is downright nasty. i overlook the Leviathan chart, but for apocalypse sized games, it might be fun to make the Warlord 'extra killy'

 

Yeah I hadn't paid attention to it either. It could be tough to stick to for really large games though, as the rest of the force org is your basic allied detachment and then two more LoW slots. Maybe you could just sell depthcharge's organs to Mexico and buy two more Warlords? IDK how many he has left or if too much alcohol has passed through them tho

 

Dang but then who would you Titan-fight with. This is tough

[Hesh Kadesh]

 

Being fair, an equal points of cost of Knight Acherons would kill it too, presuming they all got to charge.

I ran an Atrapos (Seneshal? The highest upgrade) plus an Acheron and a Reaver. Honestly the Gravity Singularity cannon didn't do much, but the Lascutter wired well in cc and the one shot it got in. I honestly think the unit was better than the Acheron, but that one is more well rounded.

 

The Acheron gets to reroll 1's on Destroyer chart, so you get in CC with it ASAP. Thankfully, the only overwatch weapons are Twin Linked Vulcan Megabolters, and Lascutters, which kind of suck for AT purposes. They do eradicate MC's though.

[depthcharge12]

 

 

 

Being fair, an equal points of cost of Knight Acherons would kill it too, presuming they all got to charge.

I ran an Atrapos (Seneshal? The highest upgrade) plus an Acheron and a Reaver. Honestly the Gravity Singularity cannon didn't do much, but the Lascutter wired well in cc and the one shot it got in. I honestly think the unit was better than the Acheron, but that one is more well rounded.

The Acheron gets to reroll 1's on Destroyer chart, so you get in CC with it ASAP. Thankfully, the only overwatch weapons are Twin Linked Vulcan Megabolters, and Lascutters, which kind of suck for AT purposes. They do eradicate MC's though.

Yeah, the gravity singularity cannon did crap all against the Warlord with void shields (which I usually tried to strip off first), AV15, and a 5++. At least it didn't roll a one for me. However, the Lascutter on the Atrapos was worth it's weight in gold with the short ranged twin linked destroyer shot and AP1 for cc for that extra roll on the penetration table.

 

The Acheron didn't do much better than the Atrapos except for the occasional reroll of a 1. In hindsight, I should've just used its flank speed to get to the Warlord (we fought on long table edges) instead of firing its inferno cannon.

 

We decided that a Reaver and three Knights makes for a fair match for the Warlord and tips out of the favor of the Warlord. Knights are honestly better point for point in taking down Warlords as they have more D close combat attacks (granted I didn't take the triple D Reaver douchebag load out), the Reaver just acted as a giant tank in the rpg sense that would force some hull points with its 3 d shots from the laser blaster.

[Dark_Master]

Thinking if saving for a couple of warhounds, to act as a double team.

 

What would be best, double plasma/ laser or maybe putting a megabolter in there for stripping void shields?

 

DM

[Athrawes]

So at the weekender, on one of the sheets showcasing the new Titan Upgrades, it stated that the Arioch Power Claw can be upgraded with a Vulcan Mega Bolter for +75 points. Seems like a great deal, and almost an auto include as it gives the titan another answer to Flyers.

 

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t272/m_r_parker/Events/HH%20Weekender%202016/934F9ECC-3DD0-4BD8-A59A-32CFDC5632A7_zpst1pb4trx.jpg

[Hesh Kadesh]

It is a good thing i think that there is some defense, but also that it is still effectively softcountered by a massive flight of Flyers with Kraken Penetrators.

[Athrawes]

As it stands now, without compromising too much Killiness against other superheavies by taking the subpar shoulder mounted Vulcan Mega Bolters, by taking the Arioch Claw with bolter Upgrade, A warlord can put out:

 

15 Str 6 ap 3, shots from the Mega Bolter

 

12 Str 6 ap 3, twinlinked shots, snapfireing at BS 2, from the Ardex Mauler bolt cannons.

 

2 Str 9 ap 2 twinlinked shots, snap shots at BS 2, from the Ardex Lascannons.

 

That seems like a solid amount of firepower range 36" - 60" for dealing with fliers which are one of the biggest threats to Titans. In a few test roles it did even did  admirably to glance armor 12 flyers to death through sheer weight of fire.

 

And as a bonus, not counting the effectiveness of the Power Claw when it comes to super heavy CC, these guns are in compliment to the 3 other Weapon hardpoints for Titan scale weapons.

[CommodusXIII]

As it stands now, without compromising too much Killiness against other superheavies by taking the subpar shoulder mounted Vulcan Mega Bolters, by taking the Arioch Claw with bolter Upgrade, A warlord can put out:

 

15 Str 6 ap 3, shots from the Mega Bolter

 

12 Str 6 ap 3, twinlinked shots, snapfireing at BS 2, from the Ardex Mauler bolt cannons.

 

2 Str 9 ap 2 twinlinked shots, snap shots at BS 2, from the Ardex Lascannons.

 

That seems like a solid amount of firepower range 36" - 60" for dealing with fliers which are one of the biggest threats to Titans. In a few test roles it did even did  admirably to glance armor 12 flyers to death through sheer weight of fire.

 

And as a bonus, not counting the effectiveness of the Power Claw when it comes to super heavy CC, these guns are in compliment to the 3 other Weapon hardpoints for Titan scale weapons.

 

Small error - in Book 5, the bolt cannons are listed as twin-linked and the lascannons are listed as single.  On the model, the bolt cannons are single and the lascannons are twin-linked.  I wouldn't be surprised if this is fixed in a future errata, as it's easier to change the book than the model.

 

That being said, they're not both twin-linked.