To Dante or or not to Dante

[Frater Cornelius]

That is the question. While I really like that guy, he is certainly not Draigo in terms of tankiness. I can not decide if I want him or not. He seems pretty strong, but for greater than 200 points I can get some serious dakka instead.

Here is a list without Dante:

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Sanguinary Priest - Valor's Edge, Veritas Vitae, JP, Auspex (Warlord)

Librarian - ML2, Gallians Stick, JP, Auspex

7 Sanguinary Guard - 1 Fist

Furioso - Frag + Fist/HF

+ Pod

Cassor

10 Tacs - Flamer, Combi-Flamer, Heavy Flamer

+ Pod

Pod (for Cassor) - Deathwind

5 RAS - JP, 2 Plasmas, MB

5 RAS - JP, 2 Plasmas, MB

Stormraven - Typhoon, TLAC (the ride for Cassor if he does not want to ride in the Pod; same goes for Tacs)

Predator - Fast, Dozer, TLLC, LC Sponsons

Predator - Fast, Dozer, TLLC, LC Sponsons

Inquisitor - 3 Skulls

1850

It as a CAD to get the re-rolls on the strategic table. It is far from fool-proof and I hate to rely on random rolls to achieve something, but it enables me to adapt my strategy pretty well with either infiltrating, improving reserves and stealing initiative or simply avoiding alpha strike by getting Stealth from the 1 or 2.

However, without Dante I need to hope for the +1 on reserves trait to bring in that Raven reliably and even then it is just a 5/6 chance. Dante allows all JP and the Raven to come in 8/9 times and makes their scattering so much more bearable. But for 220 points? That is pretty steep for such a fragile character. Well, technically he is not that fragile, but when the opponent spams 50 grav cannon shots per turn and 60 scatter lasers, he will not last long and more firepower would be preferable.

A list with Dante would look like this:

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Take the list above:

- 2 SG (-1 Fist)

- Librarian

- VV on SP

+ Dante

Strategy would be largely the same. What worries me is that the Sanguinary Guard is now less resilient due to having less bodies and no psychic support (with potential 4+ invul saves for the unit), although the total amount of wounds would remain the same. I also lose the potential utility on the Strategic Table, although I gain Descend of Angels and a Tactical trait.

Or like this:

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SP - VE, JP, Auspex

5 SG (the SP goes here)

Dante

Command Squad - JP, 3 Meltas (Dante goes here)

Cassor

10 Tacs - Flamer, Combi-Flamer, Heavy Flamer

+ Pod

Pod (for Cassor)

5 RAS - JP, 2 Meltas, MB

5 RAS - JP, 2 Meltas, MB

Stormraven - Typhoon, TLAC

Stormraven - Typhoon, TLAC

1850

This one maximizes the use of DoA and spreads the threats a bit.

Thoughts about Dante in this context? Cheers

[Jolemai]

Personally, I think fragile is the wrong word. In your exaggeration above, 50 grav shots a turn would easy deal with Calgar, Draigo, and the rest. Do you feel they are fragile too? How is more firepower going to be less "fragile"? What would you consider as an alternative?

[Karhedron]

Dante is good but he is pricey. If you want to run him then it is worth looking at all his abilties and tailoring a list around those stengths. No point in buying an expensive character if you are not going to make maximum use of his abilties. Your list is well placed to take advantage of Descent of Angels but somewhat less so for Hit and Run. The SG are a decent bodyguard for Dante but are kinda pricey for what they bring and will struggle against horde targets.

 

Death Company on the other hand are a blender unit on the charge. They are cheaper (so you can get more) and are more resilient against Grav (if that is worrying you). They are also nearly as durable as SG against small arms fire. Chuck in a power weapon and power fist and you have a very powerful unit. Add Dante and you can Hit&Run at the end of your opponent's CC phase in order to charge again in your own turn for more attacks and charge bonuses.

 

If you just want a guaranteed Reserves boost then look at Karlean. He is 60 points cheaper than Dante but provides a bonus to Reserves and to Seize. Granted he does not have an obvious place to go in this list but he could always ride in the Storm Raven.

[Charlo]

I wouldn't call him Fragile, maybe in a 50 Grav shots a turn meta he is, but really what isn't then?

 

I like the second one, but why the typhoons? Don't they cost a lot of points when MM are free and largely better - especially with the Ravens speed.

[Bukimimaru]

That is the question. While I really like that guy, he is certainly not Draigo in terms of tankiness.

 

Dante should have no issues at all taking out Draigo in combat.

Assuming you get the charge, Dante is striking at a higher initative with a bunch of Str 7 Ap2 hits.

 

I love Dantes rules, I just really dont like the wimpy model. He's half the size of the current SG kit. :(

[Charlo]

Gotta Remember that Draigo has a 2++ and FNP in some situations :(

[Remtek]

If you are running 2 Ravens i think Dante is the best option. Makes it easier to plan ahead.

 

I'd always take him with a command squad, I have tried Dante with DC and Dante with SG, it's really hard to make use of hit'n'run with that much CC power. Command squad is a really good fnp source for Dante and you can pull off some fancy hit'n'n melta shots. You can also use his infernus pistol in close combat vs weaker squads like fire warriors hoping to stay in combat.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I run Dante in a couple of different ways. As stated above I run him with a Honor Guard, with 2 melta guns and a power fist. I just like a fist on that unit because he can't be challenged out, and is extra AP2. Its just preference. I've also ran him with 4x Melta guns (when you could still do that). Or with the rise of grav-weapons I started looking really hard at Vanguard Vets with storm shields and a  power fist/meltabombs and a Sanguinary priest with an inferno pistol, & Melta Bombs.

[Frater Cornelius]

Toughness is not only measured by ones own merit. Draigo has better support elements. I run mine with Paladins most of the time, which are multiwound and have invulnerable save, allowing for a good base to eat look out sirs. Also, 4-5 rolls on Sanctic by a Librarian can give you Sanctuary in most cases. You may laugh, but I have had Draigo and his buddies tank around 40 Grav Cannon shots with minimal casualties and only slightly above average in terms of statistics.

 

Ultimately, I do agree that Dante is a still an amazing pick for reserve-heavy armies or armies where JP deep strike. But is he worth it outside of those setups?

[Charlo]

Toughness is not only measured by ones own merit. Draigo has better support elements. I run mine with Paladins most of the time, which are multiwound and have invulnerable save, allowing for a good base to eat look out sirs. Also, 4-5 rolls on Sanctic by a Librarian can give you Sanctuary in most cases. You may laugh, but I have had Draigo and his buddies tank around 40 Grav Cannon shots with minimal casualties and only slightly above average in terms of statistics.

 

Ultimately, I do agree that Dante is a still an amazing pick for reserve-heavy armies or armies where JP deep strike. But is he worth it outside of those setups?

Maybe you want to actually play GK again? ;)

[Blindhamster]

For what it's worth... I've had dante + priest with valors edge plus a unit of sanguinary guard wipe out a 10 man unit of paladins lead by draigo.

 

Dante actually killed draigo in a challenge. Now admittedly draigo didn't have sanctuary, however it wasn't even really a challenge. Both units has fnp, but mine struck first and I had more AP2, at higher init, with at Least the same strength...

[Frater Cornelius]

Toughness is not only measured by ones own merit. Draigo has better support elements. I run mine with Paladins most of the time, which are multiwound and have invulnerable save, allowing for a good base to eat look out sirs. Also, 4-5 rolls on Sanctic by a Librarian can give you Sanctuary in most cases. You may laugh, but I have had Draigo and his buddies tank around 40 Grav Cannon shots with minimal casualties and only slightly above average in terms of statistics.

Ultimately, I do agree that Dante is a still an amazing pick for reserve-heavy armies or armies where JP deep strike. But is he worth it outside of those setups?

Maybe you want to actually play GK again?

That is not the point of this discussion. I could make the same comparison with SM and Tau if needed...

[Blindhamster]

another fun fact about Dante.

 

in a 'friendly' game where the other guy had heresy iron hands, Dante was the ONLY thing to cause wounds to Ferrus Manus :D

 

(draigo failed miserably)

[evildrcheese]

Slight detour, but if you primary want Dante for benefiting a DC squad, I've found St Celestine makes an excellent 'budget' Dante.

 

She's cheap (even when you include the tax of min troop for allies (SoB can offer a lot to BA also, but that's another story)

 

Gives hit & run

 

2+ for tanking small arms fire don't forget her resurrection trick)

 

Beast in CC, although you do have to pick your targets as she lacks ap2, EW and is only T3)

 

I admit you lose quite a bit, but as I said she's a budget Dante, not a Dante replacement and there are occasions where I wish I had Golden Boy.

 

EDC

[Blindhamster]

Id second the comment about Celestine, shes nowhere near the beatstick Dante is, but shes incredibly cheap considering all the goodness she provides (shes another character Dante killed before she even got to strike in a game i played vs SoB... however she got back up (awesome rule) and the rest of my BA didnt fare so well...)

[greycat]

Personally I really like Dante, his ap2 at initiative is amazing and he really brings the pain to everything I have played against. I run a very aggressive BA army which has multiple fast moving elements to give target saturation, so it does really depend on how you play.

[Remtek]

The strength of the list is tactical deployment and semi null deployment with dreads embarked on ravens or tacticals. Reserve re-rolls for 400-700 points is to good to give up. If we are analyzing him as a pure beatstick he fine/decent, but not amazing. A CM on a bike with shield eternal is better 90% of the time in a vacuum. Both are totally different then Draigo.

[CaptainHelion]

Id second the comment about Celestine, shes nowhere near the beatstick Dante is, but shes incredibly cheap considering all the goodness she provides (shes another character Dante killed before she even got to strike in a game i played vs SoB... however she got back up (awesome rule) and the rest of my BA didnt fare so well...)

Celestine should have done her various attacks first, at her I7. She'd still die like a putz to Dante, but not before she got a chance to strike.

[Omega-soul]

It's always To Dante.

 

I think he is one of the very few units in codex that completly worth their points.

Actually the last games - i didn't used his trait for descent - but he is so good at destroying mid-power units! 

So mobile so durable (as for blood angels) so fast.

I use him with command  squad on jumps with meltaguns - and most of the time they begin on a table and he is my hammer - while mephiston 2 GK libby and command squad on foot is my anvil, that lands in enemy deploy-zone in first turn so enemy never have that choice to shoot at Dante.

 

And draigo really lack that agility, not to mention disabled option for sweeping advance.

 

It's a priceless sight when Dante kills enemy priest and sweeps whole platoon (opponent placed his sergant in front and priest at his back so he had no bodies to look out)

[JamesI]

The correct answer is always Dante. 

[Bukimimaru]

Who's the cat who won't cop out, when there's Xenos all about?

Dante!

He's a complicated man and no one under stands him but his Primarch.

Right on!

[Indefragable]

Dante: been there, killed that, lost the T-shirt. And frankly, you're beginning to bore him. He's gettin' too old for this .

Dante has become one of my favorite characters if not the favorite both fluff and crunch wise.

So far, in the 6 months or so I have been using him, he has only ever died once. And that was to an Imperial Fists chapter tactic player who has played the same list for 10 years. And how did he bring Dante down? Lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of Bolter shots. Ridiculous quantities re-rolling everything. And the only reason Dante went down is because my opponent artfully cut the rest of my army to pieces (but that's a whole other story) forcing me to break Dante off on his own to defensively tie up as many units in CQC as possible. And Dante singlehandedly took down a full 10-man Tac squad and 2x 7 man Devastator squads in his own without breaking a sweat.

Dante has also killed the Iron Hands Chapter Master Smash (look him up if you are not familiar) twice.

His unit (I tend to run him with 5x SG with banner, 2x Inferno, 1x PF; Sang Priest with Valor's Edge; and a ML2 Libby with Angel's Wing and Force Staff) also took down a Space Wolves Wolf Guard Terminator squad with the guy that throws his Stormhammer ala Thor and Njal the ML3 Stormcaller. Granted there was a lot of preparatory shooting involved, but still, NEVER write off Dante.

I have played TableTop wh40k for just over a year now and one thing I have learned is Warhammer always beats Theoryhammer. I went through similiar mental gymnastics trying to figure out if it "was worth it" to bring him and so on but honestly, it's all about how you play him on the board.

Where Dante has an edge over Logan Grimnar, Draigo, Calgar, etc... is his mobility (Jump Pack), melee (S6, AP2 Master Crafter AT Initiative 6, possibly 7, is nothing to take lightly), and army buffs (Assault Squads with jump packs and Meltas. Very underrated Turn 2+ AT). Oh yea, he also has Hit&Run just for :cusss and giggles.

Play to his strengths and he will never let you down. Play him like Draigo or someone else and of course you will be disappointed.

[Captain Caine 24th]

For me Dante has been good in a lower point maelstrom setting (maybe 1500-1750). I design lists around him to max out his warlord trait. Otherwise in such games I'll do a librarian or priest with veritas hoping to infiltrate an assault force. If I go pods I go with Karlean. But then again at higher points all bets are off as just about any unit has hard counters. Anyway hit and run is just about the best rule in the game. Set a few models out some time and playtest just how far you can move. I find shooty armies often utlize cheap "speed bump", "roadblock", or even "tarpit" units to slow my assault. But hit and run allows me to use these units as stepping stones towards what I really need without exposure to their shooting phase. In another way I really don't deep strike with jump packs much anymore. Though at the moment I'm having a hard time getting up the table too(heavy losses). For escorts I've done sanguinary guard with a priest and death company with ok results. I'm moving to command squads (storm shields and FNP). A little 5+ cover here and there hasn't been enough lately. Anyway for the most part he usually does very well. Last weekend I fought a nid list with a Dimarcheon(?) And a scythed hierdule. This did not go well. Dante actually fought valiantly but was finally brought down by some WS8 tyrant.

[LutherMax]

He's done very well for me so far!

[Pendent]

In one of the first games I ever played I had Dante smash 2-3 squad of necron warriors, two wave serpents, a squad of war walkers as well as others that I don't remember as specifically. Dante is scary on his own, but when he's in a squad with a Sanguinary Priest and Librarian hitting him with quickening every turn he turns into an absolute monster.