[HH1.0] Dark Angels Tactics

[Frostmourne]

This may have been done elsewhere, but i cannot see it, so sorry if it has.

 

I know this Legion doesn't have rules, but as i am like 75% tempted to get started on them along side my Ultramarines i thought it best to get some chatter going on the First Legion.

 

I have always loved the Dark Angels since i first started playing, and that was mostly down to the Deathwing in 40k, im a huge Terminator Fan. And since the Horus Heresy books have come out, Dark Angels have long since been one of my favourtie Legions. The Lion is probably one of, if not my absolute, favourite Primarchs. They have some of the best fluff, and best special characters.

 

On the Table top, they are probably as you'd expect, unrepresented due to having no rules. Although they are due to obtain rules ealry next year. I havn't heard much whisper of what these are or will be, but i do know that the First probably wont get special characters or units.

 

So, at the moment, how do people play them, what do people use? I expect a few melee heavy units in Power Armour plus some decent Volkite squads (As they are mentioned to still use quite alot of Volkite right?).

 

Have people seen them in play? what sort of things are people taking?

 

And what sort of rules are people hoping for?

 

 

[Hesh Kadesh]

Why has this suddenly become a thing, producing tactics for legions that don't have rules.

 

You have generic rules of Stubborn, Furious Charge, and if the Praevian is anything to go off, Tank Hunters too. (Legiones without their own LA rules get one of the three above rules)

 

You can make an argukent for any of them, but without a doubt, Stubborn is the most powerful rule.

 

Unlike many other legions, their relic in Book IV is dogmeat. A fear test nuke would be brilliant, but it is overststed by its effectiveness. Most fear causing CC units outside of a Curze led unit with the -4 to fear will be lucky to cause a single failed fear test out of the usual 3 asssaults you see them take part in, even with near universal ATSKNF not being a thing in 30k.

 

To make use of that lone single rule, you'll want to be in an assault; so furious charge helos here. Veteran who already get Furious Charge could take Fearless, but if you're assaulting, you want to be winning, not holding things up after losing an assault.

There are literally no possible tactics to use outside of generic legion tactics designed for an assault.

 

They are currently Crap world eaters.

[Ishagu]

I know I'm just wish-listing here, but it would be awesome if Dark Angels Tactical squads could exchange their bolters for volkite chargers for free, to reflect their stockpiles of ancient technologies.

 

That, and Plasma weapons no longer get hot? This could be problematic with Moritats however...

[Frostmourne]

Agreed at the moment they probably are crappy World Eaters.

 

Well Plasma is their forte in 40k, but that doesnt always hold up in reflection to 30k. But Volkie Tacticals would be pretty fantastic, as equally fluffy. But maybe only with their Rite of War or something?

[Hesh Kadesh]

I know I'm just wish-listing here, but it would be awesome if Dark Angels Tactical squads could exchange their bolters for volkite chargers for free, to reflect their stockpiles of ancient technologies.

 

That, and Plasma weapons no longer get hot? This could be problematic with Moritats however...

Cypher has BS10 in 40K, but accounting for the power creep there would basically mean he'd have a BS7 in 30K I think. Equipped with a Plasma Pistol would mean that he'd hit have the following abilities;

 

1 to hit = Reroll on the following - Gets hot on a 1-2, misses on a 3-5, hits on a 5+.

2 to hit = Hits, Gets Hot!

3+ = Hits

 

I don't see what 10-20 years means for any ability whatsoever to ignore Gets Hot short of perhaps the Lion's Combi-Blaster. 

 

All Veterans get access to Volkite Serpenta's. I could foresee that being extended to Volkite Chargers at +5pts; 250pts for 10 with Sniper or Fearless or even Tank Hunters; people already don't take infantry chargers unless you're Night Lords, so might as well give them a reason to be bought. Considering that Calivers do the same job, but better for the same cost at the expense of being unable to move (with a Higher range even factoring in any non-Bike equipped character's move), there's little reason to take Chargers except in a drop pod list - and drop pod lists aren't brilliant unless you can take boots on the ground as well (hence NL/RG high tier lists).

 

Can't foresee normal tacticals, so if you want your minimum troops to take Volkite, you need to Run Pride of the Legion, Chosen Duty or presumably the Lion. Remember the legion was once the largest until it got nuked pre Heresy, and had to massively rebuild - often at distance to which resupply would have been hard to get to from Mars. The legion is now hardly entirely made up of the Veterans that fangirls like to state they are.

[Caillum]

I'm not a fan of wishlisting in the Tactics forum, but maybe we'll see a return of Assault & Breacher Veterans. There was a note in the Betrayal about them playtesting this idea. Makes sense for the 1st Legion to have lots of Vets... Edited December 14, 2015 by Caillum

[Frostmourne]

One of the wings, Stormwing maybe?, is assault breacher vet lads isnt it?

[Hesh Kadesh]

Kind of depends what you nean by vets tbh. The angels were around for maybe 10 years longer than any other legion and suffered a massive calamity that caused them to rebuild but never regaining their former title as largest legion.

 

I'd be surprised, and a little disappointed if it comes down to "yo vets everywhere".

[Caillum]

Maybe not for the Legion rules, but for one of their Rites of War? Or a generic Unification War Veterans RoW. Something like:

- no Tacticals allowed

- Veterans are Troops

- Breachers & Assault Marines gain "Veteran Tactics" and +1 Attack, but cost 20-30 points more

- some added penalties

 

I daresay that the Dark Angels 2 Rites of War will be Terran forces and Calibanite forces though.

[Frostmourne]

Calibanite and Terran RoW is a pretty cool idea.

[depthcharge12]

I heard Dark Angel veteran fangirl and my radar went off, here I am! :P

 

It'd honestly be nice to get like a bonus to d3 units as a special veteran rule, but again, I don't like the thoughts of vets everywhere either. I gave advice to Athrawes to run a 10 man volkite charger squad in a Dreadclaw to see how it runs, and he said it does an awesome job pushing units off of objectives. You hop them out, shoot the Chargers, and then assault.

 

I guess what I'd propose here is that tacticals gain access to chargers so that they also take extra ccws to be a threatening unit. And I understand in world where people take Typhons in 2000 point lists that this is by no means "competitive," however, it'd make tacticals fun to run and give them more usage then their current incarnation.

[depthcharge12]

Ok, so veterans got a huge buff:

 

Take stasis missiles on the suspensor webs for screwing with the enemy's units before charging. Swap out power swords for Caliban great swords and give the unit furious charge.

 

Wounding on 2's against marines on the charge (edit: only sgt gets Caliban greatsword I guess unless specified, my bad) plus -1 I and WS with an additional flat 3+ to hit against elite units that have been stasis'd.

 

Also, Jetbikes gain acid shells!!!!!!!!

 

Quadruple edit:

Also, quad heavy bolters with acid shells!!!!!!!!

 

Acid shells for days? ACID SHELLS FIR DAYYYZZZ!!!

 

Here's going to be the start of my Dreadwing:

 

2*10 vets (Furious charge)

+ 2 missile launchers (w/suspensor webs and stasis missiles), 2 power swords, sgt w/CGS/AA

 

2*Dreadclaws

 

10 destroyers

+ jump packs, sgt w/CGS/AA, 2 suspensor missile launchers w/rad/stasis

 

5 support marines

+ 5 plasma repeaters

+ LR proteus with array

 

5 Heavy support marines

+ 5 HBs w/molecular acid shells

 

 

Yeah buddy.

Edited February 6, 2016 by depthcharge12

[Anurien]

Acid shells are only available to models with Legiones Astartes (Dark Angels) or Dreadnoughts with heavy bolters or twin-linked heavy bolters. Rapiers have Quad Heavy Bolters and don't have Legiones Astrtes?

[depthcharge12]

Acid shells are only available to models with Legiones Astartes (Dark Angels) or Dreadnoughts with heavy bolters or twin-linked heavy bolters. Rapiers have Quad Heavy Bolters and don't have Legiones Astrtes?

Honestly? It's crewed by two LA:DA models. Guns are operated by dudes, the guns themselves don't need the LA:DA rule. If someone argues it, slap them with your gauntlet :P

 

It would seem silly that they couldn't.

[Anurien]

Sorry, maybe I should repeat this a different way:

 

A  "Quad Heavy Bolter" is a separate weapon to a "Heavy Bolter"...

 

It would be cool but I don't think Acid Shells can be used by Rapiers.

[Forward Assist]

Anyone know if the stasis grenades can be used with a terminator grenade harness?

[depthcharge12]

Anyone know if the stasis grenades can be used with a terminator grenade harness?

Don't know yet, but I'm willing to wager that terminator combi grenade launchers can use them!

[Forward Assist]

Much rejoicing.

[rendingon1+]

 

Anyone know if the stasis grenades can be used with a terminator grenade harness?

Don't know yet, but I'm willing to wager that terminator combi grenade launchers can use them!

 

Let's hope so.

[Charlo]

Strangely drawn to the 1st with all thier cool stuff!

 

:D sword wielding, archeotech and jet biking badass Knights

[ThatOneMarshal]

I've got an urge to play the dark angels, I already wanted to play them because of the knightly ascetic but now I really wanna play them! I literally gotta choose between them and nighht lords now. CRAP!

 

How we feeling about those ROWs?

[rendingon1+]

First we need to see them in detail :)

[hivey]

are rules pics allowed to be posted? i have pics of the legion rules, gear, and rites.

 

more on topic, i think acid shells on attack bikes and jetbikes would be amazing for anti infantry. for only 5pts, they can wound even primarchs and admech monsters with ease.

Edited February 7, 2016 by hivey

[depthcharge12]

are rules pics allowed to be posted? i have pics of the legion rules, gear, and rites.

 

more on topic, i think acid shells on attack bikes and jetbikes would be amazing for anti infantry. for only 5pts, they can wound even primarchs and admech monsters with ease.

They are auto take on jetbikes for sure.

 

2+ to wound with on average 3/4 AP? That's like 90% of the non vehicle models you'll face up against - marines, Castellax, solar auxilia - there's no reason not to take acid shells lol.

 

Now IF we get an official dulling for the quad bolters to take acid shells...that's most definitely going to be an awesome unit. 6 acid round shots twin linked is nasty business.

[ThatOneMarshal]

are rules pics allowed to be posted? i have pics of the legion rules, gear, and rites.I 

I would instead post them in the Weekender thread, the only thing we haven't had pics for are the ROW. Mainly so this thread doesn't get locked later for posting images.

 

Ok so I'm looking at the rules a little bit more now. We get one helluva strange rule in the WS change. It's great to be hitting on a 3+, however we are stilling wounding on 4's which is a problem. We really gain our stuff with our specific gear though. The Terranic Greatsword is really cool, would never take it before a paragon blade though. The Calabinte blade is kinda sucky, we pay the same amount as the Night Lords and White Scars to basically have +1 str. Not great, but I would take it instead of a regular Power sword. 

The Special ammos is where it gets interesting. The Stasis weapons are cool, don't know how we are getting access to grenade launchers for that variant though. With a missle launcher it gives us a nice buff that corrallates well with our legion abilites. Helps when your against something with a higher weapon skill to even the odds. The heavy bolter ammos really cool, especially if we are fighting mechanicum, how does it work with sniper though? Both conflict with each other. Also can we get it with vehicle heavy bolters? 

 

The ROW are pretty cool. Though I'll need to see it in the flesh to really get a feel for it.