[HH1.0] Dark Angels Tactics

[1ncarnadine]

The problem with podded dreads in Ironwing is having enough tanks to compensate. To me, it reads that you need as many tank units as you have other units. Squadrons count as one unit. 2 dreads and 2 pods is 4 non-tank units, so how do you plan on getting 4 tank units to compensate with only 3 HS slots? There's no tanks (other than DT) in Elites, Troops, FA, or LOW(Super-heavy vehicles had the Tank rule in Betrayal, but it's gone in LACAL, I assume because of the swap to 7th edition). There's the Damocles tank in the HQ slot, but you also have to have a tank to balance out your Praetor/Delegatus. So one podded dread isn't a problem at all, but you can't field enough tank units to have 2 dreads in 2 pods. Foot-slogging seems to be the easiest way to get them in.

 

Now, I think my regular opponents wouldn't have a problem granting me "tank" on a Typhon or Glaive, but that doesn't look like RAW to me.

 

Podded dreads also can't be included in Ravenwing, because all vehicles must be Flyers or Skimmers. Grav Land Speeders are an easy source of grav. I think Grav Cannons are in a little more questionable place rules-wise. In most 40k FW supplements, Rapier units are only "Artillery" type, but in HH books they're always listed as both Artillery for the carriage and infantry for the crew. To me, that means they'd have to start in a flyer (2 per dreadclaw), but others might find that wording more ambiguous, I guess. Another source of grav would be Breachers/Techmarines in some sort of flyer, or a Forgelord on a bike of some type.

 

Ravenwing Infantry limitation verbatim:

"All Infantry units in the army must begin the game deployed in a Flyer that has sufficient Transport capacity to carry them and enters play via Reserves."

 

Also, did every one else know that Dreadclaws are Dedicated Transports for Terminator Squads. I guess I'm just blind, but it's right there in the Dreadclaw rules.

 

All the DA rules are up as a PDF on 4chan.org/tg

 

Dang I didn't think about the half tanks bit very hard. In my head I was counting tacs in Rhinos as a tank each, but actually I guess the tac squad would negate its own Rhino and only run as 1:1 for the ratio. I think that kind of kills Ironwing to me then. Very limited when it doesn't expand options for what slots get tanks, or give more units access to stuff as DTs like Armoured Spearhead (which is also already not too great).

 

Grav speeders slipped my mind on Ravenwing though. That'd work alright!

 

I think you can Dreadclaw Rapiers? I don't know, nor do I care, because I don't consider it a great idea. It'd take too many Dreadclaws and the Graviton would take too long to fire. Same idea on Breachers or a FL, I know you have access to it but I don't think it's viable if you want to do something like kill a Spartan fast.

[Erren]

I like that list, Depthcharge. Can you fit in meltabombs on the jetbikes?

 

 

I finally figured out this morning why I'm disappointed in the DA rites: they're all for mono-wing armies. I don't play my 40k DA that way and it's not a playstyle that interests me or that I've had success with. The rites aren't too bad if those somewhat extreme builds interest you, but I gravitate toward a more balanced approach.

[depthcharge12]

I like that list, Depthcharge. Can you fit in meltabombs on the jetbikes?

 

 

I finally figured out this morning why I'm disappointed in the DA rites: they're all for mono-wing armies. I don't play my 40k DA that way and it's not a playstyle that interests me or that I've had success with. The rites aren't too bad if those somewhat extreme builds interest you, but I gravitate toward a more balanced approach.

Thanks!

 

Unfortunately I didn't have the points to do so, but you could crunch some around. Here's the full list:

 

 

2000 points - Pride of the Legion

 

Praetor (162)

+ Terranic GS, Cata TDA, combi plas, digi lasers

 

4 Command TDA (228)

+ Cata TDA, 4 power fists, 4 combi plas

+DT Dreadclaw (100)

 

10 vets (280)

+2 swords, ML w/stasis, HB w/acid, sgt/CB/AA, furious charge

 

10 vets (280)

+" "

 

3 jetbikes (150)

+ acid shells

 

Dreadclaw (vets) (100)

 

Dreadclaw (vets) (100)

 

5 HS marines (160)

+5 acid HBs

 

Sicaran (175)

+lascannon sponsons

 

2 Vindicator destroyers (260)

+las destroyer arrays

 

3 Dreadclaws can switch between who wants to come in, but the command squad plus praetor are there to annihilate deathstar units and provide a fearless bubble to the smaller vet squads in the fray.

 

Vet squads cause all sorts of hell with stasis, acid, and power weapons combined with furious charge and blade mastery.

 

The Sicaran and Vindicators hold down my table edges and get shots on other armor, mainly there to crack heavy armor. I don't worry at all about quad launcher batteries unless there's absolutely no cover and I lose first turn. Besides, I have the HB and jetbikes all with acid shells to literally "nope" rapier batteries with 2+ to wound plus ignoring their armor saves 50% of the time.

Edited February 11, 2016 by depthcharge12

[Slips]

Paragon Blade.

 

Also, i'd probably make the vets: 1x 2HB w/ Acid and 1x 2ML w/ Stasis. Mostly because OCD and to give them a bit more focus (Do the ML's still keep the Frag/Krak Missiles?)

[Shaolin_Monkey]

So I haven't seen a copy of the book yet but I was led to believe that the Acid Shells stipulated heavy bolters on infantry or dreadnoughts only

 

But than I see this Jetbike talk, going I was misled, anyone shed some more light on exactly what can take the Acid Shells?

[depthcharge12]

So I haven't seen a copy of the book yet but I was led to believe that the Acid Shells stipulated heavy bolters on infantry or dreadnoughts only

 

But than I see this Jetbike talk, going I was misled, anyone shed some more light on exactly what can take the Acid Shells?

Models with the Legion Astartes: Dark Angels rule can take them - therefore yes jetbikes can ;)

 

 

@Slips

 

Eff yo Paragon blade Skreb!!!! Real men use Terran steel!!! Plus there's 10 AP2 plasma shots not counting all the power fist attacks on guys that can single out challenges. I think I don't need the paragon blade crutch best buddy :D

 

Also why would you put them on the same squad lol? It gives you more flexibility and both squads will have stasis for assault.

Edited February 11, 2016 by depthcharge12

[Erren]

I'd probably drop the Praetor's Combi-Plasma to buy Stasis Shells for a Combi-Grenade Launcher in the Command Squad. You could also drop a Power Sword from a Vet Squad to pay for a Grenade Harness and/or Plasma Blaster on the Command Squad.

[Slips]

If your ML doesnt lose Frag/Krak when taking Stasis it gives you the option of shooting heavier stuff without your 2nd heavy weapon waiting in the sidelines.

 

If they do lose Frag/Krak, then screw it, keep it as is.

[depthcharge12]

If your ML doesnt lose Frag/Krak when taking Stasis it gives you the option of shooting heavier stuff without your 2nd heavy weapon waiting in the sidelines.

 

If they do lose Frag/Krak, then screw it, keep it as is.

I personally think it lets you take it, but haha I wouldn't want to be chilling 10 vets with their butts in the air shooting at something. They're too expensive and die like regular marines :P

 

 

As for taking the stasis shells on the terminator command squad? Probably a silly idea as they have WS5 already and are hitting at I1 anyway :) plasma blaster is kinda useless after one turn, so I'd rather get double the shots with two combi plas.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Talking of which, FW! Give at least Legion Missile Launchers Flakk Missiles as standard. Just because you're still playing 4th edition doesn't mean the rest of the world is! 

[1ncarnadine]

Stasis are "an additional ammunition type" so you keep frag/krak. I agree with Slips tbh, I'd keep two missiles in one squad and two HBs in the other. Heck, I'd say pull the swords out of the squad with the acid bolters and throw them all into the stasis squad too. Maybe run Sniper w/ the HB vets and Furious Charge on the stasis vets.

[The Lord of Iron]

something tells me that dark angels will do really well against daemons when they start becoming a bigger part of the heresy.

 

just a thought.

[BadDice0809]

Ironwing looks awesome. A fat squadron of Predators and Vindicators, with a Sicarian (not sure which yet).

Two squads of Legion Tacticals in Rhinos to SHRED infantry with +1 to wound FotL.

Praetor with Honor Guard in Land Raider.

Legion Terminators in Land Raider for more Tanks and infantry murder.

Can't wait to start painting

[Spinsanity]

Would people consider combi-GL rather than the oft-taken combi-plas, on sgts and the likes, for added stasis potential?

[Kossaka]

Id think more than 1 or 2 would be a bit much, They don't stack. I'd probably go with 2 so in case I charge a second target i would still get the stasis effect on my second assault.

[Charlo]

The grenade launchers are a weird one, as with swords you'll be hitting on 3s anyway.

 

That said, there are a few units where it will really make a difference - things like Templar Brethren with WS5 and power swords suddenly strike on a 4+ and after the DA attack, tipping the scales.

[1ncarnadine]

The stasis grenades drop WS and Initiative by 1 (to a minimum of 1) so unless you're planning on charging an unwieldy unit or are yourself unwieldy you might as well always try and have the combi-grenades for stasis.

[Terminus]

Note that if you are WS5 and shoot a WS3 unit with stasis, they need 5s to hit you in melee which usually requires WS7+.

 

Under Ironwing, run two dreads in drop pods into the enemy's backfield with two DCCWs and two graviton guns. Bam, tank hunter grav guns with fear on cc dreads :devil:

Tank hunter would only be useful for the fists here, since haywire doesn't roll to penetrate. Edited February 14, 2016 by Terminus

[cypherthefallenangel]

I have a few questions about the new 30k tidbits DA is getting in the new book. Now that the 1st is finally getting some rules(albeit very little) im going to start building my army and i dont want to build models that i cant use.

1. The calabanite swords. Any model that can take a power sword can take one of these swords for same cost as a normal PS. So Frost swords for everyone. Like vet tacs with furious charge and 10 clalbanite swords is getting 30 S6 ap3 attacks on the charge will be brutal specially if you stasis the unit first, hitting on 3+ wounding on a 2+ and attacking first . Or is it just the sgt that can take the sword?

2. Terranic great swords. The leaked info stated that any model that can take a powerfist can take this sword for same price instead of the fist. Does that mean all sgts, terminators and hqs can take this sword?

Like..

5 terminators all with terranic great swords or tac vets with furious charge sgt has a terranic great sword (s8 ap3 ID) and rest with calabanite swords?

[rendingon1+]

1. Only characters (sergeants, hq choices) can take blade of Caliban. Rank and file cannot. Would make sense but FW thinks otherwise.

2. Terranic - Only praetors and centurions/consuls.

 

If you feel dissapointed - welcome to the 1st legion.

Edited February 17, 2016 by rendingon1+

[Hesh Kadesh]

'bros lets join chaos, we can get some sick rules, yo. I mean look at lorgar, he was a :cussing loser, now look at him bunny hopping all over the battlefield before exploding things with his mind and gets to brofist demons.'

Luthers Pre Battle Speech, Final Battle for Caliban

[Terminus]

Ironwing is a pretty nice rite if you like vehicles. Also a good way to invest your money before overspending on infantry depending on what kind of special units Dark Angels get.  With them being the proto-Legion, they could very well get some nice and flexible units like Reavers or Terror Squads. Undoubtedly they will also get some big fancy Terminator unit with plasma repeaters.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Terminus

[depthcharge12]

'bros lets join chaos, we can get some sick rules, yo. I mean look at lorgar, he was a :cussing loser, now look at him bunny hopping all over the battlefield before exploding things with his mind and gets to brofist demons.'

Luthers Pre Battle Speech, Final Battle for Caliban

Look at me. Now to your primarch.

 

Now back to me. I'm warped with chaos and fighting on equal terms with a Primarch.

[The Lord of Iron]

1. Only characters (sergeants, hq choices) can take blade of Caliban. Rank and file cannot. Would make sense but FW thinks otherwise.

2. Terranic - Only praetors and centurions/consuls.

 

If you feel dissapointed - welcome to the 1st legion.

 

Man I didn't realize that only characters could Calibabtine Warblades that sucks. Tack that on to the nearly none existent legion rules, bad relic, and general hit and miss war gear and I honestly cannot see the reason to play a dark angels army. You guys have it worse than we do in the fourth.

[depthcharge12]

 

 

1. Only characters (sergeants, hq choices) can take blade of Caliban. Rank and file cannot. Would make sense but FW thinks otherwise.

2. Terranic - Only praetors and centurions/consuls.

 

If you feel dissapointed - welcome to the 1st legion.

Man I didn't realize that only characters could Calibabtine Warblades that sucks. Tack that on to the nearly none existent legion rules, bad relic, and general hit and miss war gear and I honestly cannot see the reason to play a dark angels army. You guys have it worse than we do in the fourth.

The blades are bleh but give us some options. The real greatness I feel you overlooked are acid shells - you're ignoring marine armor saves half of the time and TEQs on a third of the time, and wounding both on 2+s.

 

Not to mention stasis shells to drop special units and characters down -1 for WS and I to get in quicker kills. It's not (pardon my ubermensch) straightforward and brainless like WS glaives or cyberhawks, you need to play smarter, not harder.

 

Don't forget we get some sick RoWs too. Tank Hunter and Fear on dreads plus tank bonuses when the smart thing is to run Tacs in rhinos anyway?

 

I don't mean to sound mean, or come down hard on you :P but I feel that it's easy to flippantly put down the DAs on paper than trying them out. I did pretty dang good running them vanilla. This is icing on the cake.