[HH1.0] Dark Angels Tactics

[rendingon1+]

What about taking psychic tests on ld7? :)

[Hesh Kadesh]

Sleep addled brain. Wunderbar, FW. Truly Wunderbar. They're stuck in 5th ed. How cute.

[Caillum]

But it's not like you'll be taking Psychic Leadership tests very often - only on a Perils. Jurr's still a good character for the cost.

[Charlo]

It's more because psychic tests are not done on leadership at all now, they are rolls of 4+ on warp charge dice :P

[rendingon1+]

Yet another modelling question?

 

 

 

I remember reading about how Dark Angels have 7 different "Wings" that all have different ways of waging war. I see that in book 6 DA got Ironwing and Ravenwing. Is it possible/probable that they will get the other 5 as rites of war as well?

Not sure on the count, and I don't remember the source (Was it Fallen Angels? Unremembered Empires?), but I recently read there were only 6, with the latest one finally having been identified thanks to one of the fluff blurbs in book 6 :

• Ravenwing - Bikes Obviously
• Deathwing - Terminators
• Ironwing - Tanks/ Armour
• Stormwing - Assault Marines with Boarding Shields
• Dreadwing - Destroyers and killy guns
• Firewing (HH:6) -??

Oh, did they name it in 6?!

From what I remember the above is correct...

Awesome - any Info at all?

All I know, unfortunately, is from the following pic, which doesn't say anything except that it does name the 'wing...
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t272/m_r_parker/Events/HH%20Weekender%202016/394752CB-148F-4B7D-A52C-8D82CF249284_zpsof1x9xxc.jpg
+ Edit : Once again, thanks to m_r_parker for all he shared with us during the last HH event!

 

This guy has a 'lance-decurion' rank which translates into sergeant. What markings on his armour represent his status? Is it that checkered right arm or wings on the left?

Edited February 24, 2016 by rendingon1+

[TheForgottenAngel]

I'm a big fan of the Terranic Greatsword because of fluff! It's awesome and any wound they fail, dead! My praetor will be flanked by a command squad with 2 power axes and 3 power swords.

 

Best of all if you want to run a Paragon blade you can easily since it's modelled already.

[depthcharge12]

I think it's perfect for a champion character, and don't forget that we're on the same team as the guys with at Initiative AP2 weapons :P so no fear.

[TheForgottenAngel]

Will if the Nemean Reaver and the art of the upcoming book is any indication, we'll have some at initiative ap2!

[angrywicket]

Does anyone know if you can take molecular acid shells on a quad heavy bolter? Apologies if its a noob question, i'm just getting into HH, and my copy of retribution is still in transit.

[Frater Cornelius]

Does anyone know if you can take molecular acid shells on a quad heavy bolter? Apologies if its a noob question, i'm just getting into HH, and my copy of retribution is still in transit.

As far as I am aware, there is no consensus yet. But people are assuming that it isn't possible because 'Quad Heavy Bolter' isn't the same thing as a 'Heavy Bolter'. Same goes for Plasma Repeater on Outriders. I guess we will have to wait an see.

[Cloud Runner]

The book specifically states heavy bolter and twin-;linked heavy bolter. it is only available to models with the Legion Astartes (Dark Angel) rule and dreadnoughts.

 

I would say the means it's NOT available to:

Rapiers

Land speeders

Tanks

 

Basically, it's only infantry, bikes (including jet) and dread's - to be fair, I think quad bolter with acid shells would be too much, especially in a battery of 3.

 

 

Side point - if you have multiple weapons firing these (such as a dread or support squad) I'm assuming that you roll once for the AP of the unit, rather than for each weapon - can't think of/find an example elsewhere of multiple variable AP weapons that are the same.

 

 

 

@ TheForgottenAngel - exactly that, I love the terranic for the extra point of S, auto death and lower points cost - a very big deal in list balancing.

 

And in answer to the fears of "but he'll get jibbed in a challenge against another AP2 wielding character" - have the praetor lead a unit with at least one other character in it (such as a sgt level) and let the praetor butcher the unit they are facing.

 

And if it's an enemy praetor - annihilate it from afar with firepower - why is no-one thinking of the grand scheme and tactics?

 

Maybe even make the praetor a sacrificial piece (yes, I know slay the warlord) but sometimes you have to make gains in other areas. For example, if the praetor goes down at the right moment (and if sacrificing you can always position ready to make it so) you can then open up with some very tasty counter units, such as acid shells!

 

 

And don't tool everything up to the hilt - less is more. Yes the stasis nade's are good, but they can take away from the basic skill, and are virtually impossible to actually get in a list unless you have combi-grenade launchers - seriously, how else do you get them?

 

 

In all things, less is more - and if it's less points, you can get more toys in to the other areas of the list!

 

 

 

Apologies for the slight rant!

[rendingon1+]

Cloud Runner

 

Side point - if you have multiple weapons firing these (such as a dread or support squad) I'm assuming that you roll once for the AP of the unit, rather than for each weapon - can't think of/find an example elsewhere of multiple variable AP weapons that are the same.

 

You roll each time weapon is being fired. Rules are clear about that.

 

@ TheForgottenAngel - exactly that, I love the terranic for the extra point of S, auto death and lower points cost - a very big deal in list balancing.

 

And in answer to the fears of "but he'll get jibbed in a challenge against another AP2 wielding character" - have the praetor lead a unit with at least one other character in it (such as a sgt level) and let the praetor butcher the unit they are facing.

 

And if it's an enemy praetor - annihilate it from afar with firepower - why is no-one thinking of the grand scheme and tactics?

 

You don't have to take terranic gretsword at all. There's no point in making complex tactics solely to justify a single melee weapon. About praetor slaughtering rest of the unit with terranic gs - what if this unit has 2+sv? Because, you know, paragon blade is not considered good without a reason - it allows you to strike at initiative with S bonus and ignores 2+ (with possible ID bonus). And that's why you take it - to wreck 2+sv targets before they can strike. Terranic Greatsword (no matter how sweet +2S instant death is) will never be as reliable vs 2+ as paragon blade.

 

I can however definitely see it on (as deptcharge mentioned) a champion/chaplain who also has a power axe/fist. 

 

Maybe even make the praetor a sacrificial piece (yes, I know slay the warlord) but sometimes you have to make gains in other areas. For example, if the praetor goes down at the right moment (and if sacrificing you can always position ready to make it so) you can then open up with some very tasty counter units, such as acid shells.

 

Exactly, Slay the Warlord . With Covenant of Death you have to be very careful with victory points. I don't really see a point in planed, intentional sacrifice of praetor in any cirumstances. Yes, every unit can be a "sacrificial piece" depending on a situation but when I consider praetor HQ choice it's because he is supposed to smash things not just die. And acid shells are available on good, mobile units (scimitars/trikes) so you can have them where you want them without creating a scenario where your praetor has to die.

 

 

 

And don't tool everything up to the hilt - less is more. Yes the stasis nade's are good, but they can take away from the basic skill, and are virtually impossible to actually get in a list unless you have combi-grenade launchers - seriously, how else do you get them?

 

Combi wepons. Almost every unit/charcter except bikers or assault squad can get them. I expect saute genade launcher to appear in the new red LA book.

Edited February 25, 2016 by rendingon1+

[Cloud Runner]

 

Cloud Runner

 

Side point - if you have multiple weapons firing these (such as a dread or support squad) I'm assuming that you roll once for the AP of the unit, rather than for each weapon - can't think of/find an example elsewhere of multiple variable AP weapons that are the same.

 

You roll each time weapon is being fired. Rules are clear about that.

 

 

That wasn't the question.

 

If I have a heavy support squad with 5 guys in it, do I roll 1D6 for the AP value for the whole squad, or 5D6 for each individual?

 

A different example, a contemptor dread with 2 x twin heavy bolters - is it 1D6 roll for AP for all shots, or 2D6 (1 for each arm) then being allocated?

 

 

I am assuming you make one roll and apply it to all shots being fired by the unit in that particular phase. Which has just made me think about the (potential) fun using these for overwatch fire!

 

 

With regards to the terranic, I gueses most people don't like them - personally, i think that they're characterful and fun, and similar to the 'build around the terranic' point the same could be said of the paragon blade.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

If one is not going to bring a Praetor to unlock a RoW but rather a Delegatus, then the Terranic Greatsword is kinda okay, it's cheap plus it gets master-crafted for free so to speak.

 

It's performance will of course never match a Paragon Blade or a Blade of Perdition, etc.

[rendingon1+]

 

 

Cloud Runner

 

Side point - if you have multiple weapons firing these (such as a dread or support squad) I'm assuming that you roll once for the AP of the unit, rather than for each weapon - can't think of/find an example elsewhere of multiple variable AP weapons that are the same.

 

You roll each time weapon is being fired. Rules are clear about that.

 

 

That wasn't the question.

 

If I have a heavy support squad with 5 guys in it, do I roll 1D6 for the AP value for the whole squad, or 5D6 for each individual?

 

A different example, a contemptor dread with 2 x twin heavy bolters - is it 1D6 roll for AP for all shots, or 2D6 (1 for each arm) then being allocated?

 

 

I am assuming you make one roll and apply it to all shots being fired by the unit in that particular phase. Which has just made me think about the (potential) fun using these for overwatch fire!

 

 

With regards to the terranic, I gueses most people don't like them - personally, i think that they're characterful and fun, and similar to the 'build around the terranic' point the same could be said of the paragon blade.

 

If you have 5 heavy bolters you roll for each one individually. Coloured dice, or whatever. "roll each time the weapon is fired"

[Blindhamster]

 

 

 

Cloud Runner

 

Side point - if you have multiple weapons firing these (such as a dread or support squad) I'm assuming that you roll once for the AP of the unit, rather than for each weapon - can't think of/find an example elsewhere of multiple variable AP weapons that are the same.

 

You roll each time weapon is being fired. Rules are clear about that.

 

 

That wasn't the question.

 

If I have a heavy support squad with 5 guys in it, do I roll 1D6 for the AP value for the whole squad, or 5D6 for each individual?

 

A different example, a contemptor dread with 2 x twin heavy bolters - is it 1D6 roll for AP for all shots, or 2D6 (1 for each arm) then being allocated?

 

 

I am assuming you make one roll and apply it to all shots being fired by the unit in that particular phase. Which has just made me think about the (potential) fun using these for overwatch fire!

 

 

With regards to the terranic, I gueses most people don't like them - personally, i think that they're characterful and fun, and similar to the 'build around the terranic' point the same could be said of the paragon blade.

 

If you have 5 heavy bolters you roll for each one individually. Coloured dice, or whatever. "roll each time the weapon is fired"

 

 

lootas roll for the unit not per model. they seem to be the only thing with a similar rule

[rendingon1+]

Lootas' deffguns special looks like this:

Roll once each time a unit makes a shooting attack with deffguns to determine how many
shots all of the unit’s deffguns will fire, after the target unit has been chosen.

 

Acid shells :

roll each time the weapon is fired

 

I would say it's quite different. 

For me it's clear that you roll for every hbolter separately.

Edited February 25, 2016 by rendingon1+

[depthcharge12]

It's actually not that difficult, all you need to do is just roll to hit, roll to wound, and then roll for AP. It simplifies the process and averages out the dice more evenly.

[Spinsanity]

Not sure what the official stance (if any) will ever be, but I decided to crunch some numbers to see how different ways of rolling the HBs could affect expected outcome...

 

Assuming a 5-man Heavy Support squad (I had to pick something, right?), shooting at Tartaros (3+ Hit, 2+ Wound, 2+/5++ Save) :

Wounds inflicted	0	1	2	3	4	5	6+
Once per squad		15.55%	24.04%	18.14%	10.49%	7.58%	7.35%	16.84%
Once per guy		6.64%	17.09%	23.42%	22.04%	15.68%	8.86%	6.28%
Once per bullet		4.63%	15.80%	25.13%	24.75%	16.87%	8.44%	4.38%

Same squad, shooting Catafractii (3+ Hit, 2+ Wound, 2+/4++ Save) :

Wounds inflicted	0	1	2	3	4	5	6+
Once per squad		15.77%	25.22%	20.90%	14.05%	9.85%	6.91%	7.30%
Once per guy		9.44%	22.50%	26.84%	21.09%	12.13%	5.39%	2.61%
Once per bullet		8.09%	22.15%	28.30%	22.37%	12.25%	4.92%	1.92%

  

Overall, rolling once per squad (as do Lootas) significantly reduces your chances of rolling an average (3 to 5) number of kills, whereas it increases extremes (2- or 6+). While the average number of wounds inflicted remains the same, the probability of each result is skewed (actually, since you can't inflict more wounds than the unit contains, the exact average ends up lower if you roll AP once per squad, since you're more likely to inflict more wounds than the unit has)...

 

So you're more likely to not do anything, but you're also more likely to wipe out a small terminator squad...

 

+ Edit : Great, I hate the full editor, it always screws up when I try to use tables... :\

+ + Edit : ahh, lovely, I just realized I forgot to factor ToHit in there... /facepalm Just corrected my results

Edited February 25, 2016 by Player 404

[TheForgottenAngel]

Yeah it's each individual weapon. Which I prefer because you have better odds of getting one of them rolling a lower AP

[Terminus]

Expect to get a lot of argument about that extremely tedious resolution process. All to get a tiny mathematical advantage? You folks are playing the wrong game.

[Charlo]

Ten guys... You roll ten dice to get the ap.

 

Then roll to hit in sets of AP.

 

All wound on a 2+

 

It's pretty simple!

[rendingon1+]

Expect to get a lot of argument about that extremely tedious resolution process. All to get a tiny mathematical advantage? You folks are playing the wrong game.

What are you talking about?

[Terminus]

I'm talking about the clownery that is required to extend attack resolution by 10 times just for some perceived, yet statistically insignificant "advantage". You have to choose which guy you resolve first then. No predetermining which guys rolled AP2 and resolving those attacks first against the sergeant. If you want to resolve them as individual weapons, resolve them one at a time.

[Slips]

Or, save everyone involved a bit of time and roll once for the Squad.