[HH1.0] Dark Angels Tactics

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Ten guys... You roll ten dice to get the ap.

 

Then roll to hit in sets of AP.

 

All wound on a 2+

 

It's pretty simple!

This.

[Charlo]

I'm talking about the clownery that is required to extend attack resolution by 10 times just for some perceived, yet statistically insignificant "advantage". You have to choose which guy you resolve first then. No predetermining which guys rolled AP2 and resolving those attacks first against the sergeant. If you want to resolve them as individual weapons, resolve them one at a time.

 

The rules state when the weapon is fired. Not the squad.

 

Just following the rules!

 

Could be worse, could be Sanguinary Guard!

[Terminus]

You're acting like this is the first time FW wrote something dumb that we decide to ignore. That's fine, we can resolve them individually, but your previous suggestion is gamey. You want to determine AP values and then start allocating. No dice, each one is resolved fully in turn. Just following the rules!

 

Now let me bring some Mechanicum wyvern squadrons along, so we can be here until Easter. :P

[Hesh Kadesh]

Heavy Bolters are shot together. Roll to hit, wound, then roll AP, split into wpund pools, choose which pool for your opponent to allocate wounds.

 

That is what they rules say. No.slow rolling needed.

[Terminus]

How are you splitting them after rolling them together?

[shandwen]

The rule says roll for ap before shooting, but the exact same effect happens from folling ap after rolling to wound: just without six different dice pools to roll multiple rolls with. It is a poorly thought out statement that should have said roll for ap after wounding.

[Brofist]

I'm with Terminus. I would house rule this :cuss so hard. Just quad mortars slow the game down if you're not taking shortcuts. D6 per unit is the way to go.

[Charlo]

Obviously there is a disagreement here. How about we move on and go back to actual tactics :D

 

Anyone think poison shells would be worth it on contemptors/ Cortus?

[Slips]

Ehhhh...

 

3 Shots Twin-Linked with a 1 in 3 for Ap2 or better of 50/50 for ap3 or better? When compared to the other weapons that dont cost all that much more? Not really.

 

For Tac Vets, can be pretty good; makes them much better at Monster Hunting since you aren't betting on 6's for Ap2 Shots on the Heavy Bolters, its ap3 or better half the time anyways.

 

If you can take it on QHB Rapiers, makes them actually not worthless due to their volume of fire.

[Terminus]

I think attack bikes would be a solid contenders.  I am not sure why I don't see more of them, they are one of the few 40K->30K models that maintain their relative cost in both settings, which makes them awesome in 30K.  Give them heavy bolters and now they are erasing tactical squads 50% of the time (and terminators 33% of the time).  Even having to re-roll poison, a 2+ to wound makes them as good or better than veterans at hunting automata, who are all Sv3+ or worse.  You can also give them melta-bombs so they can hunt. T5 W2 hammer of wrath and 4 attacks each on the charge that hit other WS4 marines on 3+, put a close combat character on a bike with them, and you have a solid unit, or keep them small and cheap as mobile harassers and denial units.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Terminus

[Charlo]

I think attack bikes would be a solid contenders.  I am not sure why I don't see more of them, they are one of the few 40K->30K models that maintain their relative cost in both settings, which makes them awesome in 30K.  Give them heavy bolters and now they are erasing tactical squads 50% of the time (and terminators 33% of the time).  Even having to re-roll poison, a 2+ to wound makes them as good or better than veterans at hunting automata, who are all Sv3+ or worse.  You can also give them melta-bombs so they can hunt. T5 W2 hammer of wrath and 4 attacks each on the charge that hit other WS4 marines on 3+, put a close combat character on a bike with them, and you have a solid unit, or keep them small and cheap as mobile harassers and denial units.

 

Massively agree here.

 

On the subject of bikes, any verdict on whether you can put plasma repeaters on Outriders so that they aren't useless.

 

It's a shame you cant exhange plasma blasters for them, that would've been a cool choice for terminators and dreads!

[rendingon1+]

I wonder if plasma repeaters will get actual models. I'm very curious how do they look like.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Okay, back home, double checked shooting order.

 

Step 1. Nominate Unit to Shoot.

Step 2. Choose target.

Step 3. Select Weapon (Heavy Bolter)

Step 4. Check Range

Step 5. Roll to hit (i.e Fire, roll AP, seperate different AP rolls into different pools)

Step 6. Roll to wound with each dice. To speed it up, roll to wound with each pool. 

Step 7. Choose a wound pool from which your opponent allocates casualties as appropriate to the weapon.

Step 8. Choose another as appropriate, until all wound pools are empty.

 

Roll to hit and roll AP for those which hit. The two happen at the same time, exactly the same time, in which case the person who is shooting calls the order.

[Brofist]

 

I think attack bikes would be a solid contenders.  I am not sure why I don't see more of them, they are one of the few 40K->30K models that maintain their relative cost in both settings, which makes them awesome in 30K.  Give them heavy bolters and now they are erasing tactical squads 50% of the time (and terminators 33% of the time).  Even having to re-roll poison, a 2+ to wound makes them as good or better than veterans at hunting automata, who are all Sv3+ or worse.  You can also give them melta-bombs so they can hunt. T5 W2 hammer of wrath and 4 attacks each on the charge that hit other WS4 marines on 3+, put a close combat character on a bike with them, and you have a solid unit, or keep them small and cheap as mobile harassers and denial units.

 

Massively agree here.

 

On the subject of bikes, any verdict on whether you can put plasma repeaters on Outriders so that they aren't useless.

 

It's a shame you cant exhange plasma blasters for them, that would've been a cool choice for terminators and dreads!

 

I kinda wish they did, but I don't think they will. I'm a IH player myself and getting grav guns on bikes would make them wonderful units... but it didn't happen. Plasma blasters on bikes would be great, but so far FW has been reluctant to buff ye old outrider squads.

[Erren]

I tend to agree that if you have difference colored dice and a plan (maybe even some practice) you should be able to roll it pretty fast. But I probably wouldn't ever be taking a Heavy Support Squad with 10, so at most it'd be 5-6 HBs shooting. I really like them best on Jetbikes, but part of that is because I like Jetbikes!

 

One of the reasons I haven't built Attack Bikes is that there's not a legal, cheap way to get the marines to be wearing anything other than Mk VIII. And while I'd prefer the Outrider-style bikes, but I'm starting to give up on FW ever making a resin Attack Bike.

[depthcharge12]

Having been...the only player so far I've known of to play with the MAS HBs, and I did it quite easily just doing hits, then wounds, then roll for AP.

 

Even from a logical standpoint, it wouldn't make sense that the whole squad would be hitting at the same AP:

 

"OKAY BOYS!!! Set your acid shells to AP6! If I see anyone of you buggers trying to sneak an AP5 or 4, or Emprah's help me, an AP1 shell...it'll be cleaning the Rock with a toothbrush!!!"

[Terminus]

I tend to agree that if you have difference colored dice and a plan (maybe even some practice) you should be able to roll it pretty fast. But I probably wouldn't ever be taking a Heavy Support Squad with 10, so at most it'd be 5-6 HBs shooting. I really like them best on Jetbikes, but part of that is because I like Jetbikes!

 

One of the reasons I haven't built Attack Bikes is that there's not a legal, cheap way to get the marines to be wearing anything other than Mk VIII. And while I'd prefer the Outrider-style bikes, but I'm starting to give up on FW ever making a resin Attack Bike.

Define legal and cheap?  MkVIII legs are generic-looking enough, especially when hidden by details of the bike. Upper body can be whatever you want.

 

I feel you on the aesthetic though, the 40k bikes look a tad out of place.

[Erren]

Yeah, I guess the Mk VII legs and arms are just too noticeable to me. Even if I can't see it from halfway across the table, I know it's there...

 

I've got attack bikes laying around from my 40k DA, I'll probably try them out for awhile and continue to hope a FW designer gets inspired to do a 30k version. Nice thing about 40k Ravenwing models is that at least they're the right color.

[rendingon1+]

Anyone tried to attach 40k sidecar to 30k outrider bike?

Legs are not a problem imo just file away mk7 knee guard and then cut mk4 one from plasticard. It's easy, cheap and look good.

Edited February 26, 2016 by rendingon1+

[Charlo]

Anyone tried to attach 40k sidecar to 30k outrider bike?

Legs are not a problem imo just file away mk7 knee guard and then cut mk4 one from plasticard. It's easy, cheap and look good.

Because the Outrider is part plastic I believe the side car of the attack bike just fits :)

[shandwen]

 

Anyone tried to attach 40k sidecar to 30k outrider bike?

Legs are not a problem imo just file away mk7 knee guard and then cut mk4 one from plasticard. It's easy, cheap and look good.

Because the Outrider is part plastic I believe the side car of the attack bike just fits :)

I was under the impression that the outriders are built off of scout bikes eather than normal bikes, so the sidecar would take some work to fit.

[Tychii]

I'm doing a conversion with a chariot sidecar, and a standing heavy weapon model. I have always hated the attack bike models, they just look stupid to me.

So for me it's outrider bikes, with warhammer tomb kings, or chaos chariot side cars. I just need to bust out some green stuff and files to get the right look

[LaborerDNA]

So...Dark Angels veterans are really good at mincing any 3+? IMHO with stasis grenade on sarge with combi-bolter they kill any MEQ-target in melee, assuming they charged.

Veterans tend to get expensive quickly, but with that single stasis grenade they get really good. Also sword mastery adds to the top.

 

On a side note, was looking at sweet-sweet ravenwing RoW. Want to use land speeders, but had some questions about using GW plastic LS- is it okay to use this pattern? Because outside of Javelin, there are no speeder miniatures in there.

[Charlo]

Of course it is okay to use!

 

Especially as there is no other alternative. I imagine FW may eventually make one - just like attack bikes.

[shandwen]

If you really want heresy-era speeders take the chest, head, and shoulder pads from the BaC set to replace the mk VII? driver and gunner.