Is Heresy Better/Good?

[Lord Kasalladalla]

I have only been playing 40K again for the last year on and off so I miss changes as I am only now watching Forge World stuff. Are Horus Heresy rules better/same/good? I see the cool figures, but is all that cost worth it?

[Father Mehman]

It is to me- better that is. It's a question of personal taste, really.

The rules are more balanced, in my opinion, than 40k. About cost: are your 40k models worth it to you?

I wish there was a definitive answer for you but it's all up to personal opinion .

[Lord Kasalladalla]

It is to me- better that is. It's a question of personal taste, really.

 

The rules are more balanced, in my opinion, than 40k. About cost: are your 40k models worth it to you?

 

I wish there was a definitive answer for you but it's all up to personal opinion :).

What makes it more balanced? Do you have an example?

[Father Mehman]

Each Legion has their own strengths and weaknesses. No one Legion is overpowered and better than any other. It's all about finding what Legion will work the best with your play style and then finding out what list really works for you through play testing.

Some Legions do some things better than others- Imperial Fists and their BS5 bolters, World Eaters and their crazy Butchers in Assaults, Death Guard being Fearless, etc- but they can be taken down with the right tactics by an opposing force.

Basically, every Legion has a shot at winning a game. It's all about tactics and knowing your force...and the other guy's, too .

[Lucien Eilam]

It's "more balanced" like 40k would be balanced if almost everyone was using Codex Space Marines with nothing except a CAD.

 

The internal balance is nothing to write home about, so don't expect to be able to take whatever you like the look of and still be just as strong as anyone else. And, if somebody in your group does want to bring their tricked-out Eldar to a 30k game, it's much worse than 40k, because allies and formations are about all the Imperium has going for it in a competitive environment.

 

It's built up something of an undeserved reputation for balance simply because the early adopters weren't typically hardcore competitive gamers. That was already starting to change before BaC came out and made it more affordable.

 

You may very well find it to be more balanced but ultimately, it's all down to the people you play with, same as ever.

[Tychii]

For me the rules are more balanced in that the extreme combos you see in 30k just
Aren't unstoppable or as difficult to deal with them 40k.
 

[Carlson793]

Defined LoW rules - you won't be seeing a Primarch below 1500 points because of the 25% rule.

[Caustic63]

From playing a lot of 40K and seeing how the game has evolved over the years, 30K is definitely a more stable and balanced game. Given that updates only come out about once every six months, and they come out not as individual codexes but as combined volumes the development pattern is much more even and feels fairer. While there is still a noticable gap between the Book III Legions (Iron Wariors, Imperial Fists, Alpha Legion and Raven Guard) versus the Book I Legions (Sons of Horus, Emperor's Children, World Eaters, Death Guard) the latter have been upgraded with each volume to roughly keep pace even if some points values no longer make sense (Sons of Horus Justaerin Terminators are ABSURDLY overcosted versus Alpha Legion Lernaean Terminators) rumour has it the new book coming out in early 2016 will correct these problems.

 

 

It's "more balanced" like 40k would be balanced if almost everyone was using Codex Space Marines with nothing except a CAD.

 

The internal balance is nothing to write home about, so don't expect to be able to take whatever you like the look of and still be just as strong as anyone else. And, if somebody in your group does want to bring their tricked-out Eldar to a 30k game, it's much worse than 40k, because allies and formations are about all the Imperium has going for it in a competitive environment.

 

It's built up something of an undeserved reputation for balance simply because the early adopters weren't typically hardcore competitive gamers. That was already starting to change before BaC came out and made it more affordable.

 

You may very well find it to be more balanced but ultimately, it's all down to the people you play with, same as ever.

 

I don't think this comparison is entirely fair. The Legions Astartes Army List is a lot bigger then Codex: Space Marines with a large abundance of choices even before you decide what Legion you want to play. Then you have Rites of War (essentially alternate army arrangements that stop you from taking certain types of units but buff up others to make a more specialised list) and the potential for alternate Force Organization Charts (the Onslaught chart has more Heavy Support but always goes 2nd for instance), plus a decent number of non-space marine armies that are also legal in the 30K system. And then you have Primarchs, who fundamentally alter the way your Legion plays if you decide to pay the points to put them in your list. If my count is right, the following armies can currently be fielded:

 

Legions Astartes:

-> Generic Legion (pick one of two universal special rules)

-> Sons of Horus

-> World Eaters

-> Emperor's Children

-> Death Guard

-> Salamanders

-> Iron Hands

-> Night Lords

-> Word Bearers

-> Iron Warriors

-> Alpha Legion

-> Raven Guard

-> Imperial Fists

-> Ultramarines

 

Mechanicum:

->Tagmata Omnissah

-> Legio Cybernetica

-> Imperial Knights

 

Solar Auxilia

Milita and Cults

 

And this list will only expand when the new book comes out. 30K is a great way to breath some fresh air into Warhammer 40K, though it is somewhat costly beyond the initial starter set so its a significant and specialized investment that is for the most part the purview of passionate players.

[Raktra]

30k is best k. Joooiiiiin uuuuuussss.

 

Plus, come on. Primarchs, dammit.

[Lord Blackwood]

This is a matter of both perspective and environment. 

I can field 5 Imperial Knights in 40k ( and I  do )

I can field 5 Imperial Knights in 30k ( and I  do sometimes ) 

The rules being tighter or more balanced is a concept that I find strange. Because there are avenues for certain legions to become quite the handful as are there  builds for mechanicum or pure knights that can be very problematic , hell particular primarchs can be a huge issue  if you are unprepared  to deal with them. 

I think the best answer to your question will come specifically from you  getting your hands on the rules and reading them. 

Remember that while 30k is a "separate" game system it is still an expansion  to 40k 

Threads like these make me think we need a Stickied  " Welcome to the Horus Hersey "  Thread  that tackles a bunch of FAQ like this one and directs people to the other sticked thread for legion selection.  Not that people would read it anyway. 

[Dono1979]

While I believe that the format is excellent and far better than regular 40K, this comes form a mixture of things and not just the 'balance' (which is good but not perfect) but also the campaign emphasis and scenarios. However a MAJOR element for me is actually the community, the vast majority of players, in Australia at least, are driven by the narrative and campaign elements of the game and not the competitive tournament style which most 40K events are locked into. To my knowledge not a single 30K tournament has been run in Australia yet, they have all been team based campaign events (to date we have run close to twenty events in Australia for 2015!)

[Lucien Eilam]

I don't think this comparison is entirely fair. The Legions Astartes Army List is a lot bigger then Codex: Space Marines with a large abundance of choices even before you decide what Legion you want to play.

 

That's completely irrelevant. The point of the comparison is that everyone is choosing from essentially the same list with only minor variations, not how varied your army can be within that list.

[Hesh Kadesh]

In essence, yes and no. If that list was Codex Necrons 3E, it would be a thing. As it stands in regards to Allies, the variations available to the different legions are more akin to Armies of the Imperium allies block in 40K.

 

30K has Knights, Solar Auxilia, Imperial Army, Agents, 18 Legions, Mechanicum

 

40K has Knights, Tempestus Scions, Astra Militarum, Space Marines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Inquisition, Grey Knights, Sisters of Battle, Assassins.

[Brofist]

I don't see mention about the core Age of Darkness rules. The changes there, albiet minor, go a long way to reign some semblance of balance to the system: only troops score, no formations, no unbound, no obsec, etc.

[shandwen]

Horus Heresy: less internal balance slightly more external.

[Terminus]

30K is a better ruleset because the allies rules do not allow super-friend mega-c-c-c-combos, and the tech Xenos nonsense (Eldar/Necrons/Tau) doesn't exist.

 

Yes, the setting does technically only have three factions (Marines, Guard, Mechanicum), but the variety within each faction is immense. You have 18 legions with unique rites, units and characters, the next book will add more rites and non-Legion organizations. Guard can range from the high-tech Solar Auxilia to beastman hordes, and the one Taghmata book allows for more different types of armies than the two 40K Mechanicus books combined, and that's before we get into Questoris lists.

[Lord Blackwood]

Terminus makes a very good and  well presented point. 

[Excessus]

Lord Kasalladalla, if you have a 30k community close to you I suggest you introduce yourself to them and see how they do it. As with 40k, the 30k meta is different everywhere and people play differently all over the place! It's true though, that 30k doesn't really have tournaments but events which are more story and background driven. Last event I went to Ferrus Manus and Angron battled it out in melee in one game, but due to the magic of dicerolls they both killed each other at the same time...so the event organizer organized special prizes for the players - extra chainaxes for the World Eater player, and extra servo arms to the Iron Hands player...just because of the epic melee fail/win!

 

Personally for me and many others, who have played CSM in 40k, the Horus Heresy is a chance to play the legions as they were, with proper rules and history. The 30k lists aren't 100% balanced, no, but any of them are ways better than playing CSM in 40k!

 

 

 

Let us use Recon Squads as an example. Things work perfectly fine. They just aren't good enough. Especially in an RG list. If they were scoring in RG without the need for a tac/ass/breacher squad.

Why wouldn't recon squads be scoring though? They are troops, just not compulsory ones.

 

They still aren't super, but not scoring isn't the problem with them...

[Cornelias]

Settle down guys, it's getting a bit heated and not really helping the OP at all.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Guess who has two thumbs and just nuked the out of this thread?

THIS GUY!

Lord Kasalladalla, the question you're asking is extremely subjective and the answer for each is person is predicated on a large number of variables that are important to them. Unfortunately, because adults can't act like adults on the internet and have to resort to childish name calling and mudslinging, I'm killing this thread and its not coming back. Repeat offenders of this kind of thing should seriously consider the content of their posts before hitting that 'Post' button, or face the corrective action of the moderator team.

http://i.imgur.com/u9yQtVs.gif