Frater Antodeniel Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Hello everyone, Recently a "Flesh Tearers Supplement" have been released, with nothing new in it^^. So, once again, frustrated by the lack of serious and work of GW staff, i decided to finalise an idea i had month ago. Gabriel Seth in the chapter most important Relic Terminator Armour. For Raw Material, i used : - Marneus Calgar with indomitus armour (Note that you can use the SM:Codex Marneus Calgar to represent Gabriel Seth in Terminator Armour). - Pedro Kantor for the "double storm bolter" and for the "Oath of Blood" - Normal Gabriel Seth (Obviously^^) - And for "Fury Incarnate", i used some white scars formation rule. Do you like the idea?^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Öhm .... I'm not sure, but does Amit's armour and weapons still exist in 40k? besides that: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4267558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Antodeniel Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 Öhm .... I'm not sure, but does Amit's armour and weapons still exist in 40k? besides that: As i wrote in the armour entrie : "Repaired many times througt millenia"...So it exist, with relic, old, and new component^^, but it is "still fighting" the capacities remains intacts. (Furthermore, it was designed to be made with Red Butcher leader and some SG/GK storm bolter^^....a simple, yet brutal idea^^.) (I like to think that the Flesh Tearers Techmarines repair their stuffs using the Russian way^^.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4267566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Öhm .... Haha, are you German, mate? Quite liking it, man. Maybe take out Eternal Warrior since everybody seems to be having it and it's a bit overused. Good work! Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4267588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Perils Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 The idea is all right, but what about saying that this is the first captain of the chapter, rather then Gabriel Seth: Seth and his eviscerator are pretty iconic, and I get less of his feel like this... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4267648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 The idea is all right, but what about saying that this is the first captain of the chapter, rather then Gabriel Seth: Seth and his eviscerator are pretty iconic, and I get less of his feel like this... I would agree, except that I've always maintained that chapter masters would also have terminator armor for boarding actions and such. His gear makes sense for standard ground combat, but when he is on a ship, his load out would definitely be horrible. Amits terminator armor makes a lot of sense for those situations, and still fits his theme. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4268051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I like it, but I think it becomes a little too much like Calgar - but I suppose considering Amit's wargear that can't be helped. I don't think he needs to oath of blood rule, as he doesn't have it in his other form so no need now. Eternal Warrior is a must though or he's relegated to hunting non big characters - which doesn't seem fitting. Cant tell if you've changed any Base stats, if not awesome, but if you have I'd change them back. Also keep the warlord trait he had :) Other than that it's a nice concept - I suppose we could always just use Calgar as a count as if it came to it in a fun game but the rules seem good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4268153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Antodeniel Posted January 4, 2016 Author Share Posted January 4, 2016 Quite liking it, man. Maybe take out Eternal Warrior since everybody seems to be having it and it's a bit overused. Eternal Warrior is needed for such a character and cost point. Plus, his CC attacks are made at I1 due to Unwieldy, so, for his very survivability, Eternal Warrior is required. The idea is all right, but what about saying that this is the first captain of the chapter, rather then Gabriel Seth: Seth and his eviscerator are pretty iconic, and I get less of his feel like this... You can use this profile or the Calgar one to depict First Captain or Chapter Champion too...but i still prefer the idea of Seth in TDA^^. I like it, but I think it becomes a little too much like Calgar - but I suppose considering Amit's wargear that can't be helped. I don't think he needs to oath of blood rule, as he doesn't have it in his other form so no need now. Eternal Warrior is a must though or he's relegated to hunting non big characters - which doesn't seem fitting. Cant tell if you've changed any Base stats, if not awesome, but if you have I'd change them back. Also keep the warlord trait he had Other than that it's a nice concept - I suppose we could always just use Calgar as a count as if it came to it in a fun game but the rules seem good. Oath of Blood is a "plus" idea. I imagined that Amit's wargear bring some feeling to near Flesh Tearers brothers....it is one if not the most precious relic of the chapter after all. No, didn't change the Base stats. Those are the same as the Codex Gabriel Seth. The Warlord trait are the same, they both give rampage; first is the one of BA charts and the other from the FT charts, but as said, they both provide the same benefits^^. (Choose your favorite one^^). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4268203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Makes sense! Related topic, I know you were making a codex thing for the FT, did you ever do anything about flaying knives? Could be a cool weapon for characters. Specialist, +1 initiative and rending perhaps - like a 30k Charnal Sabre. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4268209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Antodeniel Posted January 4, 2016 Author Share Posted January 4, 2016 Makes sense! Related topic, I know you were making a codex thing for the FT, did you ever do anything about flaying knives? Could be a cool weapon for characters. Specialist, +1 initiative and rending perhaps - like a 30k Charnal Sabre. Indeed, from time to time, i work on it. (Recently, i enhanced the presentation as you can see, the background/aspect is important too). For the Flaying Knives, until now, i didn't though about it, but now that you speak of it, i will see how bring it for characters. (Your idea isn't bad at all, but i think that +1init is too much, rending would be enough.) Also, speaking of knives, i'm thinking to give the FT the same options as the Carcharodons chapter tactics : "any model in a Tactical squad with the Flesh Tearers Chapter Tactic special rule can be equipped with an additional close combat weapon for +2 point per model." (That would solve the problems of the second FT chapter tactics buff.) (Yeah, i up the point cost from +1 to +2, because FT chapter tactics first buff already give them +1 Initiative and Furious Charge. this way, such thing would be fair in regard for the Charcharodons.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4268238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Perils Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I suppose I understand the idea of giving the a chapter master TDA, but Seth and Eviscerator are synonymous to me... Do you think it would be possible to give Seth his Eviscerator, but taking the unwieldy rule off it, as I'm sure TDA would allow a two-handed weapon not to be any slower ? And possibly still give him some wrist mounted storm bolters. Then that leaves the chainfists with storm bolters for the first captain (who should by all rights be just as iconic to the chapter as the chapter master) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4268263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Seths evicerator isn't unwieldy anyway :) It's just AP4 to compensate, but has rending. Can't argue with S9 on the charge at potentially I6. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4268272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlangWhanger Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Makes sense! Related topic, I know you were making a codex thing for the FT, did you ever do anything about flaying knives? Could be a cool weapon for characters. Specialist, +1 initiative and rending perhaps - like a 30k Charnal Sabre. Indeed, from time to time, i work on it. (Recently, i enhanced the presentation as you can see, the background/aspect is important too). For the Flaying Knives, until now, i didn't though about it, but now that you speak of it, i will see how bring it for characters. (Your idea isn't bad at all, but i think that +1init is too much, rending would be enough.) Also, speaking of knives, i'm thinking to give the FT the same options as the Carcharodons chapter tactics : "any model in a Tactical squad with the Flesh Tearers Chapter Tactic special rule can be equipped with an additional close combat weapon for +2 point per model." (That would solve the problems of the second FT chapter tactics buff.) (Yeah, i up the point cost from +1 to +2, because FT chapter tactics first buff already give them +1 Initiative and Furious Charge. this way, such thing would be fair in regard for the Charcharodons.) What about Shred? As they do go through and just shred stuff up! What about Str User AP4 Shred? Or Fleshbane? Afterall they are designed to rip up people and flesh, not armour and tanks... Also I'd think 1 point for extra close combat weapon is fair as Charcaradons do get Rage (Admitedly only after killing a unit though) and Fear. And are you giving FT +1i permanently or just on the charge? I'd recommend just keeping it on the charge otherwise it is a tad OP imho and unbalances them against other Space Marines which are still at the peak of combat prowess, just not as insanely crazy. And what about gaining Rage on a certain distance charge? Would be cool to see progress on your work on the Flesh Tearers so far. See what ideas you have. Also, in a similar vein I did a profile for Amit in this Terminator armour if you are interested http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307127-nassir-amit-the-flesh-tearer-new-weapon/ I'm thinking about changing the stormbolters to Assault 2 Twin-linked. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4268402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Antodeniel Posted January 4, 2016 Author Share Posted January 4, 2016 I suppose I understand the idea of giving the a chapter master TDA, but Seth and Eviscerator are synonymous to me... Do you think it would be possible to give Seth his Eviscerator, but taking the unwieldy rule off it, as I'm sure TDA would allow a two-handed weapon not to be any slower ? And possibly still give him some wrist mounted storm bolters. Then that leaves the chainfists with storm bolters for the first captain (who should by all rights be just as iconic to the chapter as the chapter master) I prefer to keep the 2 way sheme, Power armour Seth with Eviscerator and TDA Seth with Chainfist. Indeed, from time to time, i work on it. (Recently, i enhanced the presentation as you can see, the background/aspect is important too). For the Flaying Knives, until now, i didn't though about it, but now that you speak of it, i will see how bring it for characters. (Your idea isn't bad at all, but i think that +1init is too much, rending would be enough.) Also, speaking of knives, i'm thinking to give the FT the same options as the Carcharodons chapter tactics : "any model in a Tactical squad with the Flesh Tearers Chapter Tactic special rule can be equipped with an additional close combat weapon for +2 point per model." (That would solve the problems of the second FT chapter tactics buff.) (Yeah, i up the point cost from +1 to +2, because FT chapter tactics first buff already give them +1 Initiative and Furious Charge. this way, such thing would be fair in regard for the Charcharodons.) What about Shred? As they do go through and just shred stuff up! What about Str User AP4 Shred? Or Fleshbane? Afterall they are designed to rip up people and flesh, not armour and tanks... Also I'd think 1 point for extra close combat weapon is fair as Charcaradons do get Rage (Admitedly only after killing a unit though) and Fear. And are you giving FT +1i permanently or just on the charge? I'd recommend just keeping it on the charge otherwise it is a tad OP imho and unbalances them against other Space Marines which are still at the peak of combat prowess, just not as insanely crazy. And what about gaining Rage on a certain distance charge? Would be cool to see progress on your work on the Flesh Tearers so far. See what ideas you have. Also, in a similar vein I did a profile for Amit in this Terminator armour if you are interested http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307127-nassir-amit-the-flesh-tearer-new-weapon/ I'm thinking about changing the stormbolters to Assault 2 Twin-linked. First : Rending/Shred/Fleshbane are rules that fit the Flaying Knives idea. Second : In my vision of rules^^, Flesh Tearers first Chapter Tactics benefits is, +1 initiative+Furious Charge. (Blood Angels and foremost Flesh Tearers are a melee army, but as we all know....you need first to go in the melee^^.) For the second benefit, i think that the Knives (Charcharodon version) idea can close the gap. (It would concern 4 squad at max, using the FT detachment as basic.) And finally, i keep the FT detachment benefits that is "Rage on roll of 10+ on charge". When we look at it, it is indeed powerfull at close combat, but, that's what the Flesh Tearers are ill-famous^^. (No one expect Flesh Tearers to rival at bolter with the Imperial Fist, nor the Tau powerfull firepower.) Third : Nassir post HH (so 32k-33k) can be a nice idea to work on. This way it would allow to show some change of his Terminator Armour between the Nassir version and the Seth Version. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4268505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I gotta tell you... I think this is awesome. It always struck me as pretty stupid that although we all know that there are so many different ways to field Space Marines - centering them around terminators, footsloggers, mechanized in heavy vehicles like land raiders, mechanized in light vehicles like rhinos, tons of scouts in carapace armor, bikes, skimmers, even fliers... and yet, special characters aren't customizable. You're telling me that Dante never rides a bike? Lysander doesn't own a set of power armor? It's dumb. I think that there should be more alternate versions of characters just like this. I say go for it. I'd totally play against your made-up version of Seth, especially if you have an awesome model! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4268513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Perils Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I suppose I understand the idea of giving the a chapter master TDA, but Seth and Eviscerator are synonymous to me... Do you think it would be possible to give Seth his Eviscerator, but taking the unwieldy rule off it, as I'm sure TDA would allow a two-handed weapon not to be any slower ? And possibly still give him some wrist mounted storm bolters. Then that leaves the chainfists with storm bolters for the first captain (who should by all rights be just as iconic to the chapter as the chapter master) I prefer to keep the 2 way sheme, Power armour Seth with Eviscerator and TDA Seth with Chainfist. Indeed, from time to time, i work on it. (Recently, i enhanced the presentation as you can see, the background/aspect is important too). For the Flaying Knives, until now, i didn't though about it, but now that you speak of it, i will see how bring it for characters. (Your idea isn't bad at all, but i think that +1init is too much, rending would be enough.) Also, speaking of knives, i'm thinking to give the FT the same options as the Carcharodons chapter tactics : "any model in a Tactical squad with the Flesh Tearers Chapter Tactic special rule can be equipped with an additional close combat weapon for +2 point per model." (That would solve the problems of the second FT chapter tactics buff.) (Yeah, i up the point cost from +1 to +2, because FT chapter tactics first buff already give them +1 Initiative and Furious Charge. this way, such thing would be fair in regard for the Charcharodons.) What about Shred? As they do go through and just shred stuff up! What about Str User AP4 Shred? Or Fleshbane? Afterall they are designed to rip up people and flesh, not armour and tanks... Also I'd think 1 point for extra close combat weapon is fair as Charcaradons do get Rage (Admitedly only after killing a unit though) and Fear. And are you giving FT +1i permanently or just on the charge? I'd recommend just keeping it on the charge otherwise it is a tad OP imho and unbalances them against other Space Marines which are still at the peak of combat prowess, just not as insanely crazy. And what about gaining Rage on a certain distance charge? Would be cool to see progress on your work on the Flesh Tearers so far. See what ideas you have. Also, in a similar vein I did a profile for Amit in this Terminator armour if you are interested http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307127-nassir-amit-the-flesh-tearer-new-weapon/ I'm thinking about changing the stormbolters to Assault 2 Twin-linked. First : Rending/Shred/Fleshbane are rules that fit the Flaying Knives idea. Second : In my vision of rules^^, Flesh Tearers first Chapter Tactics benefits is, +1 initiative+Furious Charge. (Blood Angels and foremost Flesh Tearers are a melee army, but as we all know....you need first to go in the melee^^.) For the second benefit, i think that the Knives (Charcharodon version) idea can close the gap. (It would concern 4 squad at max, using the FT detachment as basic.) And finally, i keep the FT detachment benefits that is "Rage on roll of 10+ on charge". When we look at it, it is indeed powerfull at close combat, but, that's what the Flesh Tearers are ill-famous^^. (No one expect Flesh Tearers to rival at bolter with the Imperial Fist, nor the Tau powerfull firepower.) Third : Nassir post HH (so 32k-33k) can be a nice idea to work on. This way it would allow to show some change of his Terminator Armour between the Nassir version and the Seth Version. Ok, the idea and your rendition are still awesome, so run with it :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4268529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Servant of Dante Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 8" or more? Khorne! Heresy! Burn in the holy fires of the Emperor's promethium traitor! (Cool character sheet) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4268713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riot Earp Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Nice sheet for seth. Maybe i´m using it today cause my friend wich plays csm is today playin an experimental CSM codex (home brew). So i have a chance to field this calgar conversion. :) Sorry for the extreme bad pic. http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag185/Slaughter3000/ccb878f8-235a-4a0b-a5c8-e05f2b501cba_zpsax3hh7ie.jpg Will replace it with a good one after the match. Öhm .... Haha, are you German, mate? Quite liking it, man. Maybe take out Eternal Warrior since everybody seems to be having it and it's a bit overused. Good work! Snorri My first thougt :D Will play him today with eternal warrior to see if overpowered or not. I believe it is needed when the fist are unwieldy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4269058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riot Earp Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I didn't field him. Played an Blood Angel Battle Company instead for the first time. (With great success). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4269555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 I didn't field him. Played an Blood Angel Battle Company instead for the first time. (With great success). Really? Damn. Write up how it fared in your thread/ your list! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4269845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riot Earp Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 You can find my report here. :) http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317869-riot-earps-blood-angels-and-imperial-allies/?p=4269854 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4269902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mapple Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 What if Seth could do chain fist or lightning claw, but get the bonus attack for two specialist weapons? It would give an ap3 at initiative bonus, and not require eternal warrior, as his target selection widens. Just a thought. In zone mortalis games, I run a terminator captain with just lightning claw and chain fist, and the 4+ invulnerable helps him against lots and keeps him dangerous. Then you're using the initiative 5 of a captain when you need it, but dreads and doors are still openable. I also made mine from a Calgar conversion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4270480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Antodeniel Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 What if Seth could do chain fist or lightning claw, but get the bonus attack for two specialist weapons? It would give an ap3 at initiative bonus, and not require eternal warrior, as his target selection widens. Just a thought. In zone mortalis games, I run a terminator captain with just lightning claw and chain fist, and the 4+ invulnerable helps him against lots and keeps him dangerous. Then you're using the initiative 5 of a captain when you need it, but dreads and doors are still openable. I also made mine from a Calgar conversion. This Character already exist^^, and his name is Tyberos. =) And, i must admit, that, for all who want to field a more brutal version of the Blood Angels, the Charcharodons Chapter Tactics and Character are really fit. => http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Tyberos-The-Red-Wake (The miniature) => http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Forge_World_Space_Marine_Badab_Characters_V2.pdf (Character rule) => http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Forge_World_Space_Marine_Chapter_Tactics_V2.pdf (Charcharodons Chapter Tactics) Since tyberos isn't a Lord Of War, it keep the slot open for more potent unit... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4270629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlangWhanger Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 My 'Red Marines' are run as Charcaradons, but I hadn't thought about using Tyberos... Good shout actually, as he is also much cheaper than Calgar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4270635 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Perils Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 My 'Red Marines' are run as Charcaradons, but I hadn't thought about using Tyberos... Good shout actually, as he is also much cheaper than Calgar. And he looks waaaayyy cooler then him (imo) Good idea using the Carcharadons for "brutal" blood angels :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/317805-gabriel-seth-in-terminator-armour/#findComment-4270808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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