Liquid_O Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 So Battle automata joined to a Praevian have the "Legion Inductees" SR which allows them to gain the benefit of the Legiones Astartes rule possessed by the Praevian, or choose between Furious Charge, Scout and tank hunters. Now suppose that in my Alpha Legion list I took a Praevian w/ Castellax and decided to take scout as my USR for the unit. If I chose Infiltrate as my AL Mutable tactics, would I also be allowed to infiltrate the unit? The Praevian keeps the LA rule and would gain infiltrate if I chose it, and since he isn't an IC and is always part of the unit he would confer it on the unit of Castellax. In fact it would work for all of the Mutable Tactics rules because he would confer them to the unit. How far off-base am I with this assumption? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 You are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid_O Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 Sweet. That makes AL praevians awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaolin_Monkey Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Wait I'm confused here, it seems to me you are asking if you can choose Scout for the unit and still have the Legiones Astartes rules apply to them? I would have thought that was not the case given that is states the unit can take the LA rules "or" one of the three USR's? Or is this just another of the many badly worded RAW vs RACSD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid_O Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 it is one of the age old raw/rai/racsd things for sure. In the way that I read it It isn't so much that the Automata themselves get both rules, but that any conferrable LA rules the Praevian have also apply to his unit (Scout/infiltrate/tank hunters/PE/hatred etc) but LA rules that only apply to individual models would not apply, like SoH merciless fighters or salamanders Promethean gift. Edit: a word/clarify Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaolin_Monkey Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Yeah just went and reread the wording on it all and it does seem that way....harsh, very harsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Wait, sorry, missed the scout. If you have a specific Legiones Astartes (Legion) rule, you don't get access to the generic special rules, sorry for the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaolin_Monkey Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Wait, sorry, missed the scout. If you have a specific Legiones Astartes (Legion) rule, you don't get access to the generic special rules, sorry for the confusion. Sadly the way it is written you can choose either for the unit. The LA rules OR the USR. However the Praevian still gets the LA rules no matter what you choose so his Infiltrate will confer to the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Yes, but because they do not have Infiltrate it is not a viable target to be joined by the Praevian. The allowance (truth be told, requisite, without giving any actual allowance, but we'll ignore that) to join the unit does not allow the ability to bypass any other limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaolin_Monkey Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Yes, but because they do not have Infiltrate it is not a viable target to be joined by the Praevian. The allowance (truth be told, requisite, without giving any actual allowance, but we'll ignore that) to join the unit does not allow the ability to bypass any other limitations. true but that limitation is only on an IC with Infiltrate joining a unit, the Praevian doesn't get a choice to join it or not, he must be a part of the unit and can't leave. even putting Infiltrate aside the other options you can choose from the Alpha Legion list would carry over to the unit from the Praevian having them. He never loses his Legiones Astartes rule even if they choose to take one of the three USRs Anyhoo i agree in principle with you and i can only assume its RACSD/RAI. sadly as we know the rules are not always well written Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 The rules do not explicitly give him permission to join a unit (as much as say the Necron formation, or the Magos Dominus' Patris Cybernetica does). The rules are permissive, in that they tell you what you can or cannot do, and saying that it must join the unit without allowing it to bypass the usual restrictions (either on joining Infiltrate or Monstrous Creature) means it cannot legally do so. If we are talking about specifics, then the specific requirement to join the unit (ignoring the above lack of ability to do by virtue of being Monstrous Creatures) does not override the inability to join the unit as a result of the infiltrate rule. Like you say, it is a RAW mess up that comes from FW not knowing their rules. RAI, I have no idea as i think the writers collectively inhale Juniper and solvent some of the times. RACSD, you get LA, or if you don't have one already, then a generic rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaolin_Monkey Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 See now why cant they hire people with ^that kind of level of detail to review and edit the rules before they release them?would save us all a whole lot of hassle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TompiQ Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Holy mother of thread necro, batman! Googling this topic made me stumble over this thread, so I thought I'd necro it rather than post a new one. While the reasoning is sound, I wonder how this part of the Praevian rules effect the ruling: A single unit of either Castellax or Vorax class Battle-automata must be selected as part of the Praevian unit. Followed up by the aforementioned [...] the Legion Praevian must be included as part of the unit [...]. To me this wording implies that the units are part of each other and that there is no joining to be done during the deployment phase. Hence the automata would actually be able to benefit from the Praevians infiltrate even if they lacked it themselves. Am I in the wrong? EDIT - To further strengthen this reasoning, the unique Iron Warriors praevian Narik Dreygur actually does not possess the Independent Character rule at all. Hence the process of attaching the units must follow the above mentioned order of operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 A character with Infiltrate can join a unit without, that's not a restriction. In this case, there isn't even any joining happening, the automata are part of his unit from the start, and thus could Infiltrate along with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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