doctor_doom Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Hey everyone, this is my first attempt at a 2000 point list for 30k. I have the betrayal of calth set (like many others) so I'm trying to maximize that. Mostly with the marines, I care less for the dread and termis. So here it is, I'd love to know if it makes sense or at least seems like it would be decently playable. Thanks HQ - 300 Zardu Layak Legion Centurion (basically the WB guy from the BoC set) - artificer armour, chaplain, plasma pistol, power maul Troops - 465 Tactical Squad x 14 and the sergent Veteran Tactical Squad x 10 - Dark Channelling, Fearless, 2x Heavy Flamer, Artificer Armour Elites - 765 Contemptor Talon - 2x Kheres Cannon - Heavy conversion beamer & CC w/bolter Gal Vorbak x 10 Fast Attack - 300 3x Tarantula Sentry Gun with Hyperios missles (anti air) (Alternatively 3x Tarantula Sentry Gun with lascannons and concealment) Heavy Support - 320 Spartan Assault tank with heavy flamer, armoured ceramite and TL bolter 2000 total Tactics, I want to run the chaplain with the regular tacticals for the zealot boost, use the veterans for a mid-range assault and the gal vorbak go in the spartan for faster assault. Use zardu for summoning some daemons to cover some objectives and the HCB dread for anti tank and KAC dread for mid range shooting. Sentrys are either anti flyer or anti tank. Thoughts? Am I missing anything? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Sorry to say, but you have an illegal list. Tactical Squad is the only Troops choice. Veterans are only Troops via Pride of the Legion or Chosen Duty. You'll need 2 Vet Squads for these Rites of War though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 If you really want to run veterans, you'll probably have to run pride of the legion, not many pts to go around in this list. Also, the veterans load out seems a sub par in many ways. You gave them fearless, but there's a 1/3 chance of them getting zealot anyway, potentially wasting dark channeling, plus dark channeling is really only useful on assault units. They also have no transport to get in range to use their heavy flamers, so I'd encourage you to either make them a shooting unit, in which case you don't need dark channeling and you can stick with sniper and heavy bolters, or you could make them an anti tank unit-tank hunters, melta bombs and melta guns all in a rhino, and if you feel like making them a bit more multi purpose throwing dark channeling and a power weapon or two in there couldn't hurt. If you end up running two veteran units, I'd probably make them for different purposes-one anti tank, the other anti infantry. As far as the rest of the list, gal vorbak in a spartan is very solid, probably one of the best options for word bearers, and accompanied by zardu or the chaplain they just get better. I'd probably throw burning lore on that chaplain, give zardu and extra warp charge to play with. For the contemptors, that seems like an awful lot of them for only 2k, and I must say the heavy conversion beamer is very sub par-you have to be at such a long range for it to be effective. If you want a low ap blast, plasma cannon is far more effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_doom Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 Sorry to say, but you have an illegal list. Tactical Squad is the only Troops choice. Veterans are only Troops via Pride of the Legion or Chosen Duty. You'll need 2 Vet Squads for these Rites of War though. Ahh thats what I get for using BattleScribe to build. I see there in the rules that you need at least 2. Whats the verdict on that? Is it more effective to try and have more boots on the ground with just regular troops? or are the Veterans using the Rites of War, the better bet? I understand their versatility, just curious about numbers of bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_doom Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 If you really want to run veterans, you'll probably have to run pride of the legion, not many pts to go around in this list. Also, the veterans load out seems a sub par in many ways. You gave them fearless, but there's a 1/3 chance of them getting zealot anyway, potentially wasting dark channeling, plus dark channeling is really only useful on assault units. They also have no transport to get in range to use their heavy flamers, so I'd encourage you to either make them a shooting unit, in which case you don't need dark channeling and you can stick with sniper and heavy bolters, or you could make them an anti tank unit-tank hunters, melta bombs and melta guns all in a rhino, and if you feel like making them a bit more multi purpose throwing dark channeling and a power weapon or two in there couldn't hurt. If you end up running two veteran units, I'd probably make them for different purposes-one anti tank, the other anti infantry. As far as the rest of the list, gal vorbak in a spartan is very solid, probably one of the best options for word bearers, and accompanied by zardu or the chaplain they just get better. I'd probably throw burning lore on that chaplain, give zardu and extra warp charge to play with. For the contemptors, that seems like an awful lot of them for only 2k, and I must say the heavy conversion beamer is very sub par-you have to be at such a long range for it to be effective. If you want a low ap blast, plasma cannon is far more effective. I like everything you're saying. Because I haven't played 30k I wasn't really sure how to use Veterans, but that makes way more sense. I forgot that I had the Pride of the Legion Rites chosen, but didn't realize I had it wrong. So in terms of the last list, I added burning lore to the chaplain changed: 10x Tactical 10x Veteran w/heavy bolters + sniper 10x Veteran w/melta + tank hunter + melta bombs now 1 contemptor with a plasma cannon and left the sentrys, gal vorbak and spartan. Does that seem reasonable? or should I scrap the tacticals all together? I know you mentioned the rhino for the tank hunters, but I always find they get given up for first blood in games. I know they have to get closer for the melta to be worth it. Maybe rocket launchers? I also have the lascannons on the spartan for some tank hunting as well as swapping out the AA sentry for lascannon sentrys Thoguhts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rage of Khorne Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Hey Doctor_Doom, I've been working on a similar list and am looking forward to doing some testing with it. I've also been using the BAC set and it works pretty great for getting a word bearers foundation force ready. Luckily I had someone interested in trading their normal marines for my terminators and contemptor so I got lots of boots on the ground. I don't think you need to worry about the Rhino giving away first blood so much as it is not actually a secondary Objective choice in Battles in the Age of Darkness rules. I definitely would put a tank hunting vet squad in a rhino to get them nice and close. As it pertains to the normal marines, it seems like you could probably put them to better use as vets in a transport. The downside to the pride of the legion list is that if you lose your two scoring vet squads you not only lose the ability to score objectives but you give up additional victory points to your objective so having more units wouldn't hurt. I use a Spartan for my world eaters allot and have found the flare shield to make them almost invulnerable to most things in the front arc; if you could find the points I would strongly suggest the upgrade. Let me know your thoughts! If you get any games in I would be interested in hearing the outcome. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_doom Posted January 14, 2016 Author Share Posted January 14, 2016 So I've taken the advice thats been given and I've changed up my list. Mostly in the troops area, but this is how it went down. Let me know if this seems junky or I should change things up. HQ - 310 Legion Centurion - Artificer Armour, Burning Lore, Chaplain, Refractor Field, Bolt Pistol, CC Zardu Layak - Pride of the Legion Troops - 640 Tactical Squad x15 Veterans x7, sniper, heavy bolter Veterans x 10, Rhino, Tank Hunters, 2x Melta Elites - 555 Contemptor, Kheres x2 Gal Vorbak x10 Fast Attack - 150 3x Tarantula Sentry Guns Heavy Support - 345 Spartan - TL bolter, TL heavy Flamer, Armoured Ceramite, Flare Shield Thoughts? Thanks for all the help earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Honestly, I'd scrap the 15x Tac Squad and use the points to get more punch into the list. Get the Sniper Vets to 10 Men and 2HB's. Give ALL the Sarges 2+ Armor where possible so that, on average dice, tanking non-ap2 shots for the squad makes the upgrade earn its points back a magnitude of times over. Get a Power Fist on the Gal Vorbak Sarge and otherwise get the Squad some Power Mauls. S10 Powerfist and S7 Power Mauls wreck things hard. Especially when they get rending. And then maybe something like Quad Mortars with the leftover points. Or even a Rhino for the Sniper Bolter Squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_doom Posted January 14, 2016 Author Share Posted January 14, 2016 Honestly, I'd scrap the 15x Tac Squad and use the points to get more punch into the list. Get the Sniper Vets to 10 Men and 2HB's. Give ALL the Sarges 2+ Armor where possible so that, on average dice, tanking non-ap2 shots for the squad makes the upgrade earn its points back a magnitude of times over. Get a Power Fist on the Gal Vorbak Sarge and otherwise get the Squad some Power Mauls. S10 Powerfist and S7 Power Mauls wreck things hard. Especially when they get rending. And then maybe something like Quad Mortars with the leftover points. Or even a Rhino for the Sniper Bolter Squad. I'm hesitant to lose the additional boots on the ground, but I did forget about the 10 Gal Vorbak. I did what you mentioned except the rhino for the sniper bolters. What do we think about Apothecaries? I have enough points to add one of them but have to shave 20 off. So I was thinking the Ceramite plating on the Spartan. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Never Sacrifice Armored Ceramite or Flare Shields on a Spartan. You can ditch the Extra Bolter on it and 1-2 Tac Marines for the blob if you want to keep it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_doom Posted January 14, 2016 Author Share Posted January 14, 2016 Never Sacrifice Armored Ceramite or Flare Shields on a Spartan. You can ditch the Extra Bolter on it and 1-2 Tac Marines for the blob if you want to keep it. What about losing the rhino? I mostly just don't want to paint another rhino. I've painted enough. but I'll do it if it seems like a must. Whats the general pointsize people play at? I'm used to playing 40k at max 2000pts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 :x Max 2k? On my end thats the Minimum we play at unless its a special scenario like ZM. My most common games have been 2.5k-3.5k Sacrificing the Rhino on the Melta Squad means that you are essentially rendering them quasi-wasted since they'd no longer have the mobility to get anywhere to turn their target into slag. Might as well turn them into Bolter Sniper Vets too at that point :\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_doom Posted January 14, 2016 Author Share Posted January 14, 2016 :x Max 2k? On my end thats the Minimum we play at unless its a special scenario like ZM. My most common games have been 2.5k-3.5k Sacrificing the Rhino on the Melta Squad means that you are essentially rendering them quasi-wasted since they'd no longer have the mobility to get anywhere to turn their target into slag. Might as well turn them into Bolter Sniper Vets too at that point :\ Oh wait, I had rhinos on both vet squads. I'll drop the one on the sniper squad. That way I can have the apothecary have some more bite to him. I gave him an augury scanner and a power sword. So I still have the rhino on the meltas, spartan is all upgraded, and two 10 man vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I'd rather give the Apothecary 2+ Armor before a Power Sword. Sure, its useful if you get charged by 3+ Saves but in the even of 2+, not so much. Youd be better off using those points in giving your Tac Sarge a Power Axe instead for Ap2 in CC so that he can deal with other 2+ Save Characters in a Challenge. Otherwise keep the augury scanner, thats good. The rest is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_doom Posted January 14, 2016 Author Share Posted January 14, 2016 I'd rather give the Apothecary 2+ Armor before a Power Sword. Sure, its useful if you get charged by 3+ Saves but in the even of 2+, not so much. Youd be better off using those points in giving your Tac Sarge a Power Axe instead for Ap2 in CC so that he can deal with other 2+ Save Characters in a Challenge. Otherwise keep the augury scanner, thats good. The rest is fine. Oh yea, sorry, he already had the artificer armour on him. Power axe you say? Sounds good. Thanks so much for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 OH! Hahah if he's got Artificer Already then you can slap a Power Sword on easy if the Tac Sarge already has an Ap2 Source :p And dont worry about asking for help haha! All of us, at some point, go through that phase. The main problem with 30k that most people will find is that, while on the surface everything is similar (in regards to 40k), in terms of philosophy they're pretty radically different. In 30k you usually want each and every squad to have a clear, defined and obtainable goal for them to achieve each game; they are specialized pieces of equipment, not Generalist Squads that can do a bit of everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rage of Khorne Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I like the revised list a bunch more. I'm working with a similar foundation. Do you guys know if the Diabolist can use daemonology? I know the Librarian has access to it but I don't see anything that would allow the librarian to cast safely (without the chance of miscast on a double). I have Zardu Layak in my list for the reliable summoning as he is a daemon but the diabolist says he is a daemon but doesn't list daemonology under the lores he can take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I'd have to re-read the Entries in book 5 Tempest since there are some subtle changes within vs their old rules. For some reason I think that Diabolists should/can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_doom Posted January 14, 2016 Author Share Posted January 14, 2016 I'd have to re-read the Entries in book 5 Tempest since there are some subtle changes within vs their old rules. For some reason I think that Diabolists should/can. I believe everyone can use daemonolgy, like orks can and even grey knights. If you have the daemon special rule you only mishap on double 6s, whereas everyone else mishaps on doubles. Zardu is a daemon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 No, in 30k Daemonology as a whole isn't allowed to be used with the Word Bearers currently being the only exception in being allowed to take Malefic Daemonology. I'd have to try and find the source for that again, might be in an FAQ. (Also GK can only take Sanctic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_doom Posted January 14, 2016 Author Share Posted January 14, 2016 So final list after everyones great comments / suggestions is: HQ - 310 Centurion - artificer, burning lore, chaplain, refractor field, bolt pistol, cc Zardu - Pride of the Legion Troops - 540 veterans x 10 - sniper, 2x heavy bolters, artificer armour, power weapon (axe) veterans x 10 - rhino, dozer blade, tank hunters, 2x melta, artificer armour Eiltes - 655 Apothecary - artificer, augury scanner Contemptor - 2x kheres Gal Vorbak x 10 - artificer armour, power fist, 2x power weapons (maul) Fast attack - 150 Sentry Gun battery Heavy Support - 345 Spartan - armoured ceramite, flare shield, TL heavy flamer = a cool 2000 pts. Thanks so much everyone. I'm excited to get this list put together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rage of Khorne Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Looks good. Should work pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annymouse Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Sorry to bump this topic but it's actually the list i ended up liking and trying to follow for my own first 30k army. The only thing I don't have or want to use are the tarantulas. I tried to fit in a double cc arm contemptor with grav guns in the arms (with drop pd) but I ended up having to remove way too much (Apothecary, refractor shield, dozer). I think the apothecary is the biggest loss. My question is: what's another good unit to flesh out that missing 180 - 200 pts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Go for a Contemptor-Cortus found in book 6. Same options, a bit weaker, same model until we get a dedicated one, much cheaper in points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annymouse Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Awesome, don't have book 6 yet so I'll take a look when i can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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