Dreadnought Talon - one unit?

[Quixus]

In Mission 6: Extermination mission or any other kill point mission for that matter does a Dreadnought Talon numbering 3 models count as one or three units?

[Liquid_O]

They count as separate units after they are deployed, so each dread would count as a kill point.

[Quixus]

They count as separate units after they are deployed, so each dread would count as a kill point.

(Un)fortunately that is not what the rules say.

 

When first deployed on the battlefield (either at the start of the game or when arriving via Reserves later on), the Dreadnoughts must be placed. within 6" of each other, but afterwards operate independently, and are not treated as a vehicle squadron.

So we know that during the army building phase the Talon is one unit. We also know that afterwards the Talon is not treated as a vehicle squadron (which would prohibit independent operation). The rules do not say that the Talon no longer is a unit.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Dreadnought Talon rules are borked. RACSD, they are indovidual units. Please, lets not get started on Dreadnough Talons again.

 

The rules say and don't say a lot of things that they should, or shouldn't. RAW doesn't exist and should never be used as an argument apart fron when it is.clear cut.

[Xenith]

If you knew the answer, then why ask the question?

I point you in the direction of combat squads, and the rules for units.

The models that make up your Warhammer 40,000 army must be organised

into ‘units’.

Units

A unit usually consists of several models that have

banded together, but a single, powerful model, such as a lone character, a tank, a war

engine or a rampaging monster, is also considered to be a unit in its own right.

Unit Coherency

Units fight in loose groups with gaps between each model.

When you are moving a unit,... the models in it must form an imaginary chain where the

distance between one model and the next is no more than 2" horizontally and

up to 6" vertically. We call this ‘unit coherency’.

If you say they are a unit, then they must remain in coherency. The rule speifically says they act as individuals, so, like every other instance of this in the game, they grant 1 KP per model.

Combat squads, drones disembarking from a tau tank, etc.

[Quixus]

Yes, all models of a unit must stay in coherence, shoot at the same target etc. and give only a single Kill point when all models are destroyed unless the rules tell us otherwise. The dreadnought talon rules however only overwrite how the models operate, they do not overwrite being only one unit or how the unit's independent operation is to be judged (i.e. how many kill points the unit is worth and whether those kill points are awarded if only some models of the unit are destroyed).

 

Compare that to the combat squad rule, which explicitly state that the two parts are considered separate units for all rules purposes.

A unit split into combat squads therefore is now two separate units for all game purposes, including calculating the total number of units in the army and determining the number of units you can place in Reserve.

 

 

If the rules said "after deployment the models in the dreadnought talon are considered separate units for all game purposes." We wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Hesh Kadesh]

We are having this dicussion because FW din't write rules properly.

 

You can either play by RAW and insist that they are not seperate units as they are not explicitly separated, in which case the game is slowed down as I insist on all the broken RAW.

 

By acting independently they are entirely new units, it is best to treat them as units for all purposes.

[Quixus]

I never advocated playing that way, I just hoped there was some clarification on it.

 

Playing totally RAW could be an interesting experience.