[HH1.0] Blood Angels Tactica - Assault Cannons For Days

[Blindhamster]

So, how is everyone's excitement levels for tomorrow's info on angelus?

[splen]

So, how is everyone's excitement levels for tomorrow's info on angelus?

Ive only just started blood angels but I'm pretty excited for new developments!

[depthcharge12]

Sorry if I've skipped over stuff, but has anyone run Contemptor blobs with TL lascannons and Illaistius/fist combo? There's literally no marine unit you can't tackle with that loadout...

[Hergrmir]

Hi all,

 

So I'm just getting started with building a list for IX Legion. Day of Revelations is my preference, since I like jump pack troops to begin with, and MkIV packs look way better than the 40k versions IMHO. My local group isn't particularly competitive, but a fair few of the folks do have a bit of money to throw into it so there's enough of the Forgeworld stuff that I'll run into some of the top end of the curve now and then.

 

I'm trying to decide on what to build as a solid core - the models I'll be expecting to use in most games. Barring Assault Cannons out the wazoo, what are good figures to have generally? And in regards to the assault cannons everywhere thing,

 

I'm thinking:

3x 15 assault marines, artificer, 4 power weapons (including the sergeant - thinking maybe 2 axes and 2 swords), sergeant melta bombs + artificer. Are combat shields on the whole unit worthwhile? That'll get to over 100 points if I give them all combat shields, though I have plenty of spare Hoplons from various historicals available, and am half tempted to figure out if there are cheap spears that will fit space marine hands, in which case flying hoplite phalanxes may be worth it for coolness alone.

 

3x apothecaries, jump packs, maybe power swords also? Seems like I might as well make use of the +1I

 

Praetor and Chaplain with jump packs and the usual bonuses, and probably a Damocles Rhino would make sense given the deep striking.

 

Beyond that though, I'm a bit lost. Obviously this being 30k I'll probably need something to take on the big heavies and I need something to fulfill the FA requirement. How about basic landspeeders with assault cannons and a graviton gun? Or should I skip those and go straight for missile-heavy Javelins? In either case, what are good squadron sizes? I see attack bikes would be pretty good with Illiastus, but I HATE the model. Outriders look cool, but both the gun upgrades and the power weapons get pricey quick.

 

I really like the Contemptor and its variants, and it seems dreadpods coming in on the 1st turn would really amp the survivability of Fire & Thunder for that first turn. If that works, maybe some combination of Cortus, Mortis, Levi, and Deredeo to fill the gaps in the above? What I see as the biggest gaps are ranged anti-tank, and anything to deal with 2+ armour. Would Seekers be worth a thought for anti-TEQ? It would perhaps be useful as well to get some Rhino hulls so the Damocles isn't the only target for S5-8 enemy weapons.

 

I guess the munchkin thing on dreads would be fists and assault cannons but a) I don't know where I'd get the bits for that and b) I would expect some restrictions on that come Book 8.  Baal preds and Baalcadors and the like are certainly options, though again I have the same concerns as with the dreadnoughts on them. A heavy support unit with Illiastus is tempting, but I imagine they'll get slaughtered by enemy Scorpius and the like.

 

Anyway, sorry for the big wall of text, but I've been going around in circles in my own head for the better part of two days now. Thanks for any advice!

[Charlo]

Hey man, welcome to the 9th - we are in a really good position at the moment because our rules a solid even without extra units, so bully for us!

 

You've got it nailed with your core currently - Assault blobs with medics and combat shields make them frighteningly resilient to all but the heaviest guns.

 

Chaplain & Preators are solid for us too, feeding into that big power unit.

 

One experiment could be slimming one of the assault marine units down (maybe to 11 plus medic, as you'll still pack 4 power weapons into this) but keeping the characters in the big blob, using this smaller one as a harasser unit (plus it saves points).

 

You need one flyer/ skimmer for fast attack and Grav-gun land speeders give you the anti heavy AV (Spartan's etc) you'll need - yes they will die when something sneezes at them, but for their cost you can easily knock anything out. Or, you an go balls out and get a Lightning with 4 Kraken missiles, either or :P

 

As for anything else - the total beauty of this rite is that it is very light on restrictions. On top of the deep-strike vanguard you have - there is nothing stopping you having a gun line to back it up. My favorite however is of course - the Leviathan in a drop pod, because of the rite rules that pod has a 3+ cover save and anything being shot through it, also does!

 

While very very expensive, Destroyers are almost okay in this rite of war - they come in turn one, lay down some nice firepower, get a cover save (and can have a medic) and could pin something key.

 

Recon squads are also very useful - simply for taking a nuncio vox and infiltrating up the field to give you a spot to anchor your deep strikes. This can also be achieved with a Damocles Rhino too.

[m0nolith]

 

 

My favorite however is of course - the Leviathan in a drop pod, because of the rite rules that pod has a 3+ cover save and anything being shot through it, also does!

 

On the subject of this, Loken over on the *redacted* forums asked Alan Bligh during the HH weekender to clear this up, and he said that "Yes you can shoot at the Dreadnought inside when it lands and does not disembark." also "RAW, yes its an open topped vehicle, but it is special."

 

Now, keep in mind this is Alan Bligh, so the rules may not be as he stated (think back to the BoP thing he said), but its something to note since he is in charge of the whole thing.

 

He also said that the Melta bomb thing is the rule for now and FW doesn't have control over it, and that they may address with special rules for certain units, but until then, house rule it.

Edited February 8, 2017 by m0nolith

[Charlo]

 

 

 

My favorite however is of course - the Leviathan in a drop pod, because of the rite rules that pod has a 3+ cover save and anything being shot through it, also does!

 

On the subject of this, Loken over on the *redacted* forums asked Alan Bligh during the HH weekender to clear this up, and he said that "Yes you can shoot at the Dreadnought inside when it lands and does not disembark." also "RAW, yes its an open topped vehicle, but it is special."

 

 

Shall we keep away from that debate for now... Sure, Alan might say something but the rules are written differently etc :P

[m0nolith]

 

 

 

 

My favorite however is of course - the Leviathan in a drop pod, because of the rite rules that pod has a 3+ cover save and anything being shot through it, also does!

 

On the subject of this, Loken over on the *redacted* forums asked Alan Bligh during the HH weekender to clear this up, and he said that "Yes you can shoot at the Dreadnought inside when it lands and does not disembark." also "RAW, yes its an open topped vehicle, but it is special."

 

 

Shall we keep away from that debate for now... Sure, Alan might say something but the rules are written differently etc

 

As someone who has 3 leviathans in DDPs, I wholeheartedly agree :D

[Withershadow]

Ugh, those damn drop pods. Intent and RAW are completely opposite, but most (all?) events and game groups I play in let you shoot into the pod. It makes sense based on how regular pods function, too.

[Bythehololight]

I am going to be taking part in my first tournament next month. 3 games for each player.

 

I have chosen to go for blood angels, most likely with the day of revelation ROW.

 

I know which legions are also involved in the tournament, and everyone except me and one other contestant are taking a Primarch. So that means I will almost definitely be playing against a Primarch.

 

Can you give me some advice on tactics. Mainly how to deal with a Primarch!

[Withershadow]

Leviathans can go against most Primarchs, especially with the claw. A seeker unit with combi-plasma and the Primarch as their preferred enemy in a dreadclaw is one approach for that specific problem. Veterans with combis are cheaper but BAs don't really have ways to maximize their Alpha Strike other than a Master of Signal.

 

So if you wanted to go hardcore, include that unit above and two Leviathans in pods. The dreadclaw facilitates the Levi's dropping first and targeting transports and other armor, while the pods provide shrouding for your assault marines. Then by the time the dreadclaw comes in, the Primarch should be out of whatever transport they were riding in and ripe for murderizing (if the Leviathans didnt already kill them :P).

Edited March 6, 2017 by Withershadow

[Charlo]

Aye, BA are lacking in the "big hitters" department a little - but you can tie most primarchs up fairly well with a good assault squad blob.

 

Sergeant with power axe and combat shield.

Couple guys with power axes.

Combat shields on everyone.

Apothecary.

Choice of consul: Chaplain helps out hitting, Forge lord makes wounding easy as anything, Librarian could do some shenanigans.

Then attach your fully tooled up Preator - Blade of Perdition, Iron Halo, Digital Weapons etc

 

All other characters tank the challenges for the Preator, with at least a 5++/5+FNP against most of the Traitor Primarchs (Fulgrim, Mortarion, Kurze, Perturabo sans Hammer, Horus with Claw) are S7 or less so you'll get your FNP rolls.

 

Obviously also shoot them up a load first too...

[Jolemai]

Just a quickie, but can Characters (Consuls?) be equipped with a Jetbike and if so, who would be the best recipient?

 

Either solo or with a squad is fine.

[Marshal Loss]

Minor correction, you won't get FNP against Morty, as Silence has ID.

 

The glaring problem with this strategy is that you're sinking masses of points (nearly 800 points if you include all of what you listed with a 20 man unit) into a unit that isn't actually going to be able to kill the Primarch, and you're putting your Warlord's neck on the line to boot. You can get a Primarch and retinue for only a slight increase in points. That's not to say that the unit is terrible, although I don't think it's going to perform favourably against other deathstars - but as a unit aimed at dealing with a Primarch, it is somewhat lacking.

 

Leviathan(s) sounds like a good choice to me. Dealing with a Primarch is always tricky though, focus on the mission objectives and don't let them make their points back

[Charlo]

Just a quickie, but can Characters (Consuls?) be equipped with a Jetbike and if so, who would be the best recipient?

 

Either solo or with a squad is fine.

 

Yup - most of em can. And "who" really depends on which Consul you want to run because of what they bring. Sadly, Jetbike squads aren't really combat monsters - 1A each and no power weapons... But Jetbike Command Squads are very powerful and expensive. 

But, to list:

• Librarian can buff anything generally
• Primus Medicae provides FNP
• Chaplain gives them Zealot
• Champion could simply be a cool dude with WS6 and a big fiery Sword.
• Siege Breaker with a Heavy Weapon Jetbike squad to give them all Tank Hunter
• Vigilator can outflank a squad

Minor correction, you won't get FNP against Morty, as Silence has ID.

 

The glaring problem with this strategy is that you're sinking masses of points (nearly 800 points if you include all of what you listed with a 20 man unit) into a unit that isn't actually going to be able to kill the Primarch, and you're putting your Warlord's neck on the line to boot. You can get a Primarch and retinue for only a slight increase in points. That's not to say that the unit is terrible, although I don't think it's going to perform favourably against other deathstars - but as a unit aimed at dealing with a Primarch, it is somewhat lacking.

 

Leviathan(s) sounds like a good choice to me. Dealing with a Primarch is always tricky though, focus on the mission objectives and don't let them make their points back

 

You're probably right - but it's an okay speed bump, by the least and something most BA players will take anyway to an extent.

[Marshal Loss]

If you're set on using an assault squad for this purpose, keep it cheap with a chaplain/shields/apothecary to stop them from running. As a BA player you're likely to be running multiple assault squads regardless, so it would be best to avoid designating the one with your Warlord in it as a 'speed bump,' given there are cheaper choices that fill the same role. I'm not nitpicking the unit itself Charlo, merely advocating a strategy where you keep your Warlord where the enemy Primarch isn't.

 

In general, deathstar vs. deathstar is a poor way of planning to take on Primarchs and the like, as it comes down to luck more often than not if you're not planning for a specific opponent.

 

edit: @jetbikes, I'm a big fan of Chaplain bikes. Makes the most of what attacks you have and turns them into formidable anchors when put in combat against units that can't get through their armour, you don't have to worry about a breaking because of a bad round.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Marshal Loss

[Charlo]

Aye, the best thing about BA consuls i that any that can take a powerfist can instead take the ultimate flaming sword of glorious wound spreading^TM

[m0nolith]

How do you guys feel about giving your terminators with power axes instead of fists.

That -1 would help us out and we would save 25 points per 5 guys, but we would lose the S8 attack.

What im thinking is in a squad of 10, give 5 axes and spend the points saved to give the remainder chain axes instead.

Plus, the axes look pretty damn cool so you always have to tip your hat to the rule of cool.

[Charlo]

A mix of chain Fists and power axes is a good middle ground. Usually shave a couple points from all power Fists etc.

 

Only problem is against Primarchs and 2W terminators, where you lose out on wounding on a 2+ or Instant Death respectively.

 

With Axes you're wounding most Primarchs on a 4/5+ (T6/7)

[Mirbeau]

How do you guys feel about giving your terminators with power axes instead of fists.

That -1 would help us out and we would save 25 points per 5 guys, but we would lose the S8 attack.

What im thinking is in a squad of 10, give 5 axes and spend the points saved to give the remainder chain axes instead.

Plus, the axes look pretty damn cool so you always have to tip your hat to the rule of cool.

 

Mine are a mix of chainfists and axes, with a couple of combi meltas. 1 - rule of cool, 2 - role - I use mine largely as tankbusters rather than as a counter for the opponents nastiest squad (unless said nasties have been softened up enough).

[m0nolith]

 

After my legion multiple personality disorder has been finally straitened out I decided on BA. Main reason? Red doesn't show the blood and Fear to Tread is a really good book. I really hope BA get a rule where super heavy fliers arrive turn 1

 

The other reason the 10 jump pack destroyers I have are being painted to hit the table. In DoR is 10 to many with the attach dbl inferno pistol Moritat? I am planning a Cortus in a dreadpod and a levi in the other. What to do for the third pod? I am considering another Cortus or terms.

 

Thanks,

One is too many when it comes to Destroyers, and same goes for the Moritat, sadly.

 

I agree when it comes to the Destroyers, but do you really not like the Moritat?

I think he's a crap unit for every other Legion but ours.

For us the Twinferno is a beast, especially if you Deep Strike him in with some sort of scatter prevention like, ie, a Damocles or a Nuncio Vox.

[Charlo]

Aye, I think our moritat has a semi-decent case. 12ish Melta shots is going to hurt anything. Only problem is getting him in range.

[fedratsailor]

Are Characters considered separate units for the Infantry vs vehicle count??

[Slips]

Yes.

[ThatOneMarshal]

So I'm thinking of doing a side project of BA to work on, more for modeling less for gameplay. However for when games are to arise I'm wondering how well does a vets list work for the BA? My favorite imagery of the boys in red has always laid in the tactical marines so can we doing anything special or are we stuck with assault cannon spam to make them work?