[HH1.0] Blood Angels Tactica - Assault Cannons For Days

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Depends on unit size and method of transportation entirely.

 

Both units have their uses / scenarios where they could potentially shine.

[Indefragable]

Depends on unit size and method of transportation entirely.

 

Both units have their uses / scenarios where they could potentially shine.

 

Tac Support =

-plasma Drop Pod/equiv

-MSU tactics

 

Veterans =

-Apothecary attached in a Rhino or such surrounded by other units

-Machine Kilers + Melta for when metal boxes must die

-Weaponmasters for chopping up MEQ, but I feel like BA don't really need much assistance there

-Xenobane if you're fighting Ad Mech, but I feel like that role could also be better served

 

 

I am looking at things from the following modular angles:

 

A. Day of Revelation with Sanguinius

B. Day or Revelation without Sanguinius

C. Non-DoR RoW (Day of Sorrow?) that plays a bit more "normal" to DoR. Possibly leaning on Raldoron + Crimson Paladins anchoring a Day of Sorrow position (I haven't really thought about non-DoR RoW's too much but know I need an alternative).

[Charlo]

Believe me, you don't need an alternative to DoR.

 

By the sounds of it DoS is unchanged in Book 8 and is thus still utterly garbage. It has no redeeming qualities sadly, you'd be better off taking a generic rite.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Charlo's right. Day of Sorrow will never be of any use as long as it cripples your scoring units and literally only punishes you for taking that RoW.

 

As for the Tac Support vs. Vets and Plasma vs. Melta question:  If you're bringing them in by drop pod anyway and are aiming for an MSU kinda approach, I'd forego the Tac Supports entirely, going for either Combi Melta Machinekiller Vets ~or~ Combi Plasma Seekers. Both units are 'fire and forget' and much more efficient at what they do (deleting vehicles or elite infantry respectively) as opposed to Tac Supports.

[Indefragable]

Good feedback, guys. Thanks!

 

Unrelated question:

 

Best Rites of War for Terminator spam? Orbital Assault? Pride of the Legion? I don't have any 30k Flyer transports and only a SIngle vanilla Land Raider, mind you.

 

Realized I have the Space Hulk termies laying around, combined with some other bits + bobs and I'm looking at 20x Terminator bodies + Crimson Paladins whenever they show up. Could get interesting.

 

Hidden Content

• 5x Twin LC's/Thunder Hammer/Storm shield (I know SS are not 30k IX Legion compliant at the moment)
• 6x storm bolter + power fist (Space Hulk)
• 1x TH/SS (Space Hulk)
• 1x Sgt w/ storm bolter + power sword (Space Hulk)
• 2x heavy flamer/assault cannon (Space Hulk; I configured them to take either heavy weapon)
• 2x Librarian (Space Hulk + other)
• 1x Captain in Cataphractii Terminator Armour, thunder hammer + combi-volkite (WHW exclusive)
• 1x Captain in Cataphractii Terminator Armour, sword* + combi-bolter (*power sword/paragon blade)
• 1x Banner bearer (Herald? Standard Bearer?)

 

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Orbital Assault and PotL are possibilities, yes. But Day of Reckoning might once again be your best bet:  Two Assault Squads (or Dawnbreakers when bringing Sanguinus), plus Legion Terminator Squads in Anvillus pods (which are a dedicated transport for them), possibly Crimson Paladins as a second wave.

[Indefragable]

Orbital Assault and PotL are possibilities, yes. But Day of Reckoning might once again be your best bet:  Two Assault Squads (or Dawnbreakers when bringing Sanguinus), plus Legion Terminator Squads in Anvillus pods (which are a dedicated transport for them), possibly Crimson Paladins as a second wave.

 

Yea so you'd have to pay for the Anvilus pods (or a giant Kharybdis [sp?])....

 

Next random question:

 

DoR gives Jump units 5+ Cover save the turn they arrive. The Shrouding psychic power from the Telepathy table gives +2 to cover saves, including in the open.

 

...combo move?

 

Hidden Content

 

From Day of Revelation:

 

With Fire & Thunder: All Deep Striking units in this detachment gain a 5+ cover save on the Game Turn they arrive in play. Place a marker by the unit or otherwise note this to be the case.

 

Psychic Power - Shrouding

Warp Charge 1

Shrouding is a blessing that targets the Psyker. Whilst this power is in effect, the Psyker, and all friendly models within 6" of the Psyker, have the Shrouded special rule.

 

Shrouding:

A unit that contains at least one model with this rule counts its cover save as 2 points better than normal. Note: This means a model with the Shrouded special rule always has a cover save of at least 5+, even if it is in the open. Cover save bonuses from the Shrouded and Stealth special rule are cumulative (to a maximum of a 2+ cover save).

 

 

Note that the DoR ability does not use the word Shrouded/ing at all and the psychic power says "better than normal." So is the 5+ cover save DoR provides the new normal?

[Unknown Legionnaire]

The 5+ cover save from DoR is just that, a regular cover save.

Shrouded (as gained by the respective psychic power) does stack with regular cover saves indeed.

[Charlo]

Just remember you can't pick your powers so you need to roll for it, so may not be so lucky.

 

I'll echo UL's thoughts on DoR. It's just the best and really in the top tier of RoW for BA.

 

Remember, Dreads coming down in a Dreadnought Drop pod also get Shrouded, so will have a 3+ cover save on turn one too! Try shifting that Leviathan!

[Unknown Legionnaire]

On a totally different side note:  Whilst we have seen pics of the Paladins that are to come, was there any footage on the Dawnbreaker squads shown at the Weekender ?

I don't think there was, but I can't quite remember at the moment.  Also, there was this post (IIRC) where somebody claimed the FW guys told 'em to use Sanguinary Guard plastics instead because there would be no Dawnbreaker resins in the near future ? Or did I just imagine that ... ?

[Charlo]

On a totally different side note:  Whilst we have seen pics of the Paladins that are to come, was there any footage on the Dawnbreaker squads shown at the Weekender ?

I don't think there was, but I can't quite remember at the moment.  Also, there was this post (IIRC) where somebody claimed the FW guys told 'em to use Sanguinary Guard plastics instead because there would be no Dawnbreaker resins in the near future ? Or did I just imagine that ... ?

 

No models shown for them (not even a render in CGI).

 

I didn't hear anything like that about them in the various threads/ sources so can't comment on using plastics. However I imagine a lot of people will!

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Damn, I seriously thought I had read that somewhere.

 

Thanks Charlo !

[Jolemai]

What should I be looking at, RoW and units-wise for a ZM game?

 

Lots of Terminators, etc?

[Unknown Legionnaire]

What should I be looking at, RoW and units-wise for a ZM game?

 

Lots of Terminators, etc?

 

ZM Assault Force RoW

1 Breacher Squad

1 unit of Legion Terminators

1 unit of Crimson Paladins

1 HQ with a Blade of Perdition

[Charlo]

Agreed with UL.

 

The ZM assault force will make your units of breachers really tough to shift in Melee with a 4++. If you plant the HQ in there then he can carve up the enemy. An apothecary would be good too. They're basically there to wall dreads/ terminators.

 

The Legion terms can deep strike thanks to the rite.

 

Paladins be paladin'

 

If you got points, an assault cannon heavy support squad may well be worth it in the confines of ZM.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Charlo

[Indefragable]

RE: Sang Guard/Dawnbringers...

...I was Mr. Sanguinary Guard mildly pestering them about the matter.

 

What they had said was that there were no SG rules in the book, but just use a jump command squad rules to rep them and you “can use your 40k SG models...we’re sure people have them.”

 

It was heavily implied that FW leadership didn’t think 30k SG models would not sell since the 40k version is such a staple already.

 

And nothing about Dawnbringer models was seen or mentioned in any way, shape, or form. I’m guessing official models are way out of coming at all...kind of like how SW Deathsworn are just out now. At least the Jump Dread has renders they showed off.

[Purge the Daemon]

RE: Sang Guard/Dawnbringers...

...I was Mr. Sanguinary Guard mildly pestering them about the matter.

 

What they had said was that there were no SG rules in the book, but just use a jump command squad rules to rep them and you “can use your 40k SG models...we’re sure people have them.”

 

It was heavily implied that FW leadership didn’t think 30k SG models would not sell since the 40k version is such a staple already.

 

And nothing about Dawnbringer models was seen or mentioned in any way, shape, or form. I’m guessing official models are way out of coming at all...kind of like how SW Deathsworn are just out now. At least the Jump Dread has renders they showed off.

They likely are quite a bit off but we probably can use plastic sanguinary guard as a replacement until they come. Though a lot of the white scars stuff is at least 6+ months off to.

[Indefragable]

Sorry for all my delayed reactions to things, but as I've finally been putting serious thought to IX Legion after years of sitting on the sidelines, I'm noticing particular interactions.

 

Some of them feel deliciously dirty (aka a bit much for friendly games but great to pull out for That Guy when he shows up)

 

Hidden Content

• Anvillus Drop Pod or Kharybdis Assault Claw land Turn 1
• Spit out units with Nuncio Vox who spread out
• Jump Units as part of DoR or such land with no Scatter. RAW, only a single model needs to be within 6" of the Nuncio Vox bearer to get this effect (so creative positioning means you can get your squad into tight spaces)
• Techmarines are 3 for an Elite slot and can take Nuncio Voxes. So for 45pts you spit them out in a flower petal pattern from your Pod.
• Combat Shields are 6++, 5++ in combat. Deredeo Dreadnought with Atomantic Pavaise gives +1 Invuln. So a 20man Assault blob with 5++ to shooting, 4++ to survive a T1 charge. Obviously it will be a trick with getting the Deredeo in a pod to the right spot for this to line up, but sounds deliciously cheesy. Obviously the Deredeo becomes priority target #1, but you really only need this trick to last a single turn (and that could draw fire from your other Pod'd Dreads <cough Leviathan cough>)
• Command squad with Charnabal Sabres in DoR = I6 challenge eaters with Rend....edge case, but potentially worth it?

 

 

I know there's some pretty long answers, but in general, when do you want to take a Blade of Perdition over a Paragon Blade?

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Nuncio Voxes need to be on the table at the start of the turn for them to have any effect on DS reserves.

Jump units in a DoR need to arrive on the first turn ... go figure.

 

The Deredeo's Pavise bestows the +1 to invulnerable saves only on models in 3'' of it, not units who have a model in 3''. So you won't be covering many models with it. IMHO not worth it.

[Cadmus Tyro]

I would think that each techmarine would need his own pod, as they are not independent characters and you can only ever transport a single unit in a non super heavy transport.

 

I think you have a couple of options to mitigate deep strike scatter:

 

Recon squad in scout armour and nuncio vox. They can infiltrate into position (behind LoS blocking terrain), could invest in camo cloaks to improve survivability.

 

Or

 

Command Rhino.

 

 

But the issue is the number of points you are investing, and the risk of losing those units if you don’t get first turn (which as BA you have no way to manipulate, apart from a lucky warlord trait roll). IMHO deep strike scatter is not enough of an issue to warrant the investment.

 

Cadmus

[Indefragable]

Yea I’ve been thinking about that, @Cadmus Tryo.

 

BA Recon Squad would be an interesting project.

 

Best way to equip them? Keeping them cheap and disposable? Sniper Rifles to try to plink some units down? Repeat what I do in 8th and go cqc+pistol to bum rush some cheap melee kills?

 

Recon armor and Cameleoline are no brainers for this purpose (and of course Nuncio Vox).

 

*********

 

On a different note, in general, is there a go-to build for Tacticals? As IX, it seems obvious to take a CQW to get the most mileage out of Encarmine Fury. And the “default” build for almost every Legion seems to be Sgt w/ Artificer, Combi-, and Power Fist to hide some ID in there. Should we do anything different? The only other thing I can think would if grabbing the +1I from DoR, but I don’t know how much it applies to a Tac Sgt.

Edited March 2, 2019 by Indefragable

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Your characters will have to accept challenges, no matter what, and that includes your unit sergeants if no independent character is present in the unit.

For that occasion you're likely to want an AP 2 weapon on him, most sergeants options here being Power Fist or Power Axe, which both are unwieldy and thus strike last, not benefiting from the +1 initiative (from DoR).

 

Additional CCWs on tacticals seem mandatory. Or run them as Despoilers, depending on your list.

 

For independent characters with an AP 2 @ initiative weapon the bonus from DoR is phenomenal of course.

 

Loadout for infiltrating Recon squad:  recon armour, 4x sniper rifle, combi plasma on the sergeant, nuncio vox. Done.

Spice up with cameleoline if you have to / can spare the points.

 

 

EDIT: spelling

Edited March 2, 2019 by Unknown Legionnaire

[Cadmus Tyro]

The issue with recon marines is they get expensive really quick, as each upgrade is 5pts per model. I would choose a single role for them and in your case I would just go with camo cloaks. It’s worth considering melta bombs, as they will at least be a threat to vehicles if they survive the first turn.

[Indefragable]

Are sniper rifles worth it? One of the many things I can't remember whether I'm in 7th or 8th Ed with.

[Cadmus Tyro]

Probably not, IMHO they should be either a free upgrade or at the most 2pts per model. With the (much needed) nerf to sniper veterans they at least occupy a small niche in the legion list now.

 

I would perhaps consider them in a recon company RoW when playing mechanicum/custodes as long range objective campers.

 

Using them as deep strike “beacons” will put them in the wrong position to utilise sniper rifles. Ideally you want them out of LoS, so in order to shoot a target you will have to move. You also want them fairly close to the intended target, making the additional range of the rifle superfluous.

 

Cadmus