[HH1.0] Blood Angels Tactica - Assault Cannons For Days

[Charlo]

Did they make any changes to the Blood Angels Rites of War? I want a Blood Angel army but don't want to use all jump pack units (other than Destroyers and stuff) for a Siege of Terra era force. I have a load of MK4 and MK3 marines from BoP and BaC as well as a handful of Tartaros and Cataphractii Terminators. If the other Rite has been tweaked it might be good to have a go at that rather than Pride of the Legion or something.

 

No changes to make it worth taking i'm afraid. They removed the clause on Sweeping advances which didn't matter anyway.

 

I think they changed it from Stubborn to Fearless within 3" of an Objective in their own DZ... But not sure... Still, not the greatest benefit.

[Indefragable]

After absorbing the book for a bit, a few thoughts/questions:

 

Dawnbringers:

-spears on the charge are obviously amazing, since Encarmine Fury means we're wounding MEQ on 2's w/ AP2 at I4/I5.

-...but when/where do you want to bring the swords? RAW it says they are "a pair of weapons" thus +1A, for 4A on the charge at WS5. I have this weird theorem in the back of my head that says 50/50 on spears/swords in a 10man unit since the spears do work on the charge and the sword guys use the Rending blade. T2 if you're still stuck in, sword guys use the +1I sword to go first and score some wounds.

-...but since the pair of swords cost more than the spears....ablative wounds get weird. Just go all spears?

 

Crimson Paladins:

-I don't entirely get what all the griping is about on these guys. They don't seem terrible...

-...I mean, they're no Firedrakes holding OBJ or IF Termies rocking T5 3++ or such...

-...and for a unit that is clearly meant to get stuck-in and tie up opponents for a long time, 1W model are not ideal...

-...but all-in-all I don't quite get why they're considered to be so bad

 

Angels Tears:

-when to go dual volkite and when to go heavy? another 50/50 mix seems like an ok formula...

-...though I theorize they will end up more of an opening salvo type weapon where you drop them in to wipe a single unit off the board T1 and then expect to die. Anything else is gravy. Mathammer dudes, what's the "optimal" # of assault cannons to deal with the widest range of targets possible? Aka when does it start becoming overkill for your average target? 40x shots at BS4 = 4.27 Rends on avg, right?

-Yet on further reading, the Angel's Tears Grenade Launcher is dirty* 24" S4 AP4 Assault 1, Blast (3") Rad-Phage, Fleshbane. Damn. How many of these do you want to sprinkle in to your unit to start doubling-out power armor?

 

Contemptor-Incaendius

-when do you want to use these guys vs Contemptor-Cortus? Obviously the Incaendius gives more options with the booster pack

-too bad you can't take a chainfist. Oh well.

 

Judiciar Aster Crohne

-seems ok, but doesn't do enough to see use outside of specific fluffy games

-....that's really all there is to it.

 

Raldoron

-what hasn't been said before? Cool and subtly good, but with just 1-2 more bits (and a Jump Pack option) and he would be great

[Theredknight]

I can’t absorb it because I have to wait god knows how long until it’s released and there’s only a few little leaks!

[Ranwulf]

After seeing rules and so on, I would *ONLY* bring Sanguinius to the table if I used the Angel's Wrath Rite of War.

 

Its apropriately named and gives him Hit and Run. The rule I feel he is missing and makes him murderous with more than one charge.

 

Ran

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Just noticed that Crimson Paladins are not scoring outside of PotL ... that's a shame, really. Almost all other Legion specific terminator units are.

 

Also, still haven't seen any rule or entry that actually makes Dawnbreakers troops ... as was mentioned by someone attending the Weekender.

 

Seems the only unit that's reasonably usable here are the Angel's Tears.

[Gorgoff]

After seeing rules and so on, I would *ONLY* bring Sanguinius to the table if I used the Angel's Wrath Rite of War.

 

Its apropriately named and gives him Hit and Run. The rule I feel he is missing and makes him murderous with more than one charge.

 

Ran

I'd always go with Drop Aussault Vanguard.

Makes Assault Squads tougher, brings them turn one, gives them Hit&Run in turn two.

Perfect RoW for Sanguinius.

Drop 60 Assault Squad dudes turn one and start killing turn 2.

[Theredknight]

 

After seeing rules and so on, I would *ONLY* bring Sanguinius to the table if I used the Angel's Wrath Rite of War.

 

Its apropriately named and gives him Hit and Run. The rule I feel he is missing and makes him murderous with more than one charge.

 

Ran

I'd always go with Drop Aussault Vanguard.

Makes Assault Squads tougher, brings them turn one, gives them Hit&Run in turn two.

Perfect RoW for Sanguinius.

Drop 60 Assault Squad dudes turn one and start killing turn 2.

Ahh but DOR gives you that sweet +1 I

[Ranwulf]

 

After seeing rules and so on, I would *ONLY* bring Sanguinius to the table if I used the Angel's Wrath Rite of War.

 

Its apropriately named and gives him Hit and Run. The rule I feel he is missing and makes him murderous with more than one charge.

 

Ran

I'd always go with Drop Aussault Vanguard.

Makes Assault Squads tougher, brings them turn one, gives them Hit&Run in turn two.

Perfect RoW for Sanguinius.

Drop 60 Assault Squad dudes turn one and start killing turn 2.

 

But isnt the Hit and Run bonus just for turn 2?

 

Ran

[Indefragable]

Just noticed that Crimson Paladins are not scoring outside of PotL ... that's a shame, really. Almost all other Legion specific terminator units are.

 

Also, still haven't seen any rule or entry that actually makes Dawnbreakers troops ... as was mentioned by someone attending the Weekender.

 

Seems the only unit that's reasonably usable here are the Angel's Tears.

 

It's in the profile for Sanguinius (I have the book in hand). They left it out of the w-c.com profile preview for some reason.

 

I think Dawnbringers are going to be amazing for us. Sure, they "only" have 2+ armor saves, but considering it's a unit that can get reliably wound T4 on 2's with AP2 at Initiative (5 at times!) is huge. As I mentioned in a comment previously, my only thought is what proportion of AP2 spears to +1I/Rending swords to have (since swords swords cost more).

[Unknown Legionnaire]

 

It's in the profile for Sanguinius (I have the book in hand). They left it out of the w-c.com profile preview for some reason.

 

I think Dawnbringers are going to be amazing for us. Sure, they "only" have 2+ armor saves, but considering it's a unit that can get reliably wound T4 on 2's with AP2 at Initiative (5 at times!) is huge. As I mentioned in a comment previously, my only thought is what proportion of AP2 spears to +1I/Rending swords to have (since swords swords cost more).

 

 

 

Neat. Thanks for confirming that bit ! 

[Purge the Daemon]

Dawnbringers are pricey but a list running them with apothecaries as troops via sanguinius and some podding dreads in day of revelations could do a lot of harm. Edited March 31, 2019 by Purge the Daemon

[Indefragable]

Dawnbringers are pricey but a list running them with apothecaries as troops via sanguinius and some podding dreads in day of revelations could do a lot of harm.

 

The single biggest threat for them is a counter-pod filled with plasma.

[Gorgoff]

 

 

 

After seeing rules and so on, I would *ONLY* bring Sanguinius to the table if I used the Angel's Wrath Rite of War.

 

Its apropriately named and gives him Hit and Run. The rule I feel he is missing and makes him murderous with more than one charge.

 

Ran

I'd always go with Drop Aussault Vanguard.

Makes Assault Squads tougher, brings them turn one, gives them Hit&Run in turn two.

Perfect RoW for Sanguinius.

Drop 60 Assault Squad dudes turn one and start killing turn 2.

But isnt the Hit and Run bonus just for turn 2?

 

Ran

Yes, but...

Sanguinius won't charge until turn two anyway. It's more kind of a life insurance if he (and the other assault squads) get charged in first turn so that they can get out of unwanted cc.

[Charlo]

You could drop some Dawn Bringers with Sangy for the accuracy, and not even need to be very close to the opponent. Just land behind/ near some cover. Run to spread out and avoid templates then wait a turn to jump forward into combat.

 

Maybe even send Sangy out solo, unless he runs into Cataphractii with fists or similar he'll wreck pretty much anything.

[m0nolith]

The more I look at Crimson Paladins, the more I like them.

The fact that the -1S is in CC only does hurt, but at the same time Powerfists and Chainfists are effectively S7 against them, meaning they get their FNP saves since they're no longer Instant Death.

 

Like Indefragable said, yeah they aren't Firedrakes, but they're not bad. It think they're a solid unit for the points.

The only issue I have naturally is the lack of AT.

 

What I'm thinking is giving 2 of them Sunset Blades, 2 with Power axes and the Sgt a BoP, tagging them up with a decked out Praetor, a Cataphractii Primus Medicae (to give them FNP against shooting and for when they're not outnumbered), and delivering them in a Spartan. Yes it will cost a HS slot, but I'm ok with that given I want a more reliable delivery system than a Land Raider. Maybe give the Praetor a Melta bomb and the Primus Medicae a Thunder Hammer for some added AT. 565 points for a Death Star isn't too bad given how hard they are to crack and how much damage they can do.

Edited April 2, 2019 by m0nolith

[Indefragable]

For some reason I thought Crimson Paladins were 3++, but not that I re-read their rules, they’re “only” 4++.

 

Dropped a notch in my book.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

I loved 'em at first, but the lack of scoring killed them for me.

[james71989]

I still hope they will faq them to 2 wounds at least, they are kinda lacking although the models are awesome

[WolfLogic]

I’m curious how competitive this list is and what suggestion you all might have. As will soon become obvious I went with Jump Packs and Assault Cannons. Not sure what Rite of War would work best. Pretty sure I can save points in a couple places but I’m not sure all the places where and how those new points would best be put to use

 

2000pts total

HQ (445pt)

Praetor

-Artificer Armor

-Jump Pack

-Iron Halo

-Archaeotech Pistol

-Paragon Blade

-Volkite Charger

-Digital Lasers

-Mastercraft a Single Weapon

 

--Command Squad (215pt)

---Jump Pack

---3x Plasma Pistol

---3x Power Axe

---2x Volkite Charger

 

Elites (215pt)

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon

-Dreadnought Chainfist

--Built in Iliastus pattern Assault Cannon

-Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon

--Built in Iliastus pattern Assault Cannon 

 

Troops (690pt)

3x Assault Squad

-2x Power Axe

-7x Chainsword

 

-Sergeant

--Artificer Armor

--Inferno Pistol

--Power Axe

 

Heavy Support (650pt)

Heavy Support Squad

-4x Iliastus pattern Assault Cannon

 

-Sergeant

--Artificer Armor

--Augury Scanner

--Plasma Pistol

--Iliastus pattern Assault Cannon

 

--Rhino

---Hunter Killer Missile

---Iliastus pattern Assault Cannon

 

Predator Strike Squadron

3x Predator 

-Pintle Iliastus pattern Assault Cannon

-Sponson Iliastus pattern Assault Cannons

-Twin Linked Iliastus pattern Assault Cannons

-Armored Ceramite 

Edited April 5, 2019 by WolfLogic

[Charlo]

I still hope they will faq them to 2 wounds at least, they are kinda lacking although the models are awesome

 

I wouldn't count on that...! Phoenix Terminators have been 1W forever and they aren't changing. 

 

I loved 'em at first, but the lack of scoring killed them for me.

 

This is a big one. IMO all Terminators should score, especially as the basic ones do.

 

----

 

Wolflogic - list looks cool, I'd probably drop the Heavy Support Squad though. They won't achieve much. Snap firing for a turn neuters them then they are just 5 dudes in power armour sitting there. I had a 10 man AC unit drop pod in on me and that didn't even achieve too much because of snap firing...

 

For RoW, Day of Revelation is the obvious choice for what you got. You just need a flyer/ skimmer in fast attack. A Javelin Landspeeder will do, replacing the HSS.

[Rabidbunneh]

If you want Day of Reckoning, you may as well run that heavy support squad as Angels Tears, you lose one assault cannon on the sergeant, but gain jump packs and some defensive toys.

 

What are peoples thoughts on Dawnbreakers? I made some conversions last night so I want to use them, but they are very pricy pointswise. I was thinking of 5, sergeant with blade of perdition, 2 spears and 2 blade cases for a nice mix to convert as well as being good at chewing through most stuff. The blade cases are getting 4 attacks on the charge, if you are going into a MEQ squad you'll use the shred and +1I blade, rending any other time. The I buff blade is a bit useless in DoR lists as you get that on the charge. 2 spears and a blade of perdition will go through most terminator units on the charge, you are wounding on 2s with the spears when you charge.

 

They look like a good blender against MEQ, but a bit soft if you need to go after terminators.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Rabidbunneh

[Charlo]

Glass cannon, best in Day of Revelation (or maybe Angel's Wrath for Hit & Run?)

 

Probably fairly decent if you have Sanguinius to "tank" wounds on the landing turn and deep strike them in safe.

[Purge the Daemon]

I think if you run day and slot them with apothecaries they are decent as troops. A bit pricey but they are better Palatine blades for less so I would use them.

[Gorgoff]

"This is a big one. IMO all Terminators should score, especially as the basic ones do."

I tend to disagree.

They shouldn't score per se and my reason is that the basics do. :)

That's their special power.

[Elzender]

"This is a big one. IMO all Terminators should score, especially as the basic ones do."

I tend to disagree.

They shouldn't score per se and my reason is that the basics do. :)

That's their special power.

I agree that not all special terminators should score, as for some of them their main role is to target and kill specific enemy units (be it the hardest, the weakest or their command), but in this case, Crimson Paladins are stated to be the ones that hold the line in a Blood Angels army. Thus, it would make sense that they go to the critical points in the battlefield to capture and hold them, while the rest of the army charges forth to break the enemy lines.