[HH1.0] Black Shields Tactica

[Laughingman]

That big 20 man squad with the chymerae trait that gives them rage is scary man, 100+ attacks on the charge if you can get them into combat. A kharybdis might be a decent delivery system. since you can deepstrike one turn and assault out of it the next. 

Edited April 20, 2017 by Laughingman

[Gorgoff]

 

 

 

What are you guys taking as your centurrion character?

 

Since I want to play chymerae I was thinking that I should take the World Eater for scout, however I am also undecided on if I should transport my 20 man blobs in vehicles. On one hand it will help them get there. On the other I could almost buy another blob for the points.

 

Current set up is this

 

20x maurauder

all axes

3x pariah flamer

Thunder hammer

Apoth

 

 

I was considering adding in two heavy chainswords because with str 5 that gets them to str 7 which can glance AV 13. With the grenade Nerf it is a viable option.

 

What do you think of that squad? If I decide to transport I can drop 4 regular guys for space in a 20 man transport. (My dream however is to have both in one mastadon for coolness)

I say 405 points is way WAY too much for 20 marines.

Even 20 T5 marines with FNP?

 

I mean for 20 its going to be 305 minimum. We have a pretty high front loaded cost on maurauders and so I am not sure how to run the unit differently. Can drop the flamers to free up 30 points but other than that there is not really much.

I say I have totally forgotten the FNP ;)

[Charlo]

It's simple, but just big blobs of Marauders in Spartans with character/ medic support is probably one of the best set-ups available to Black Shields.

 

Masses of S6 AP4 attacks on the charge is nasty.

[Brofist]

I'd run them in a kharybdis as it's more mobile and costs less points. You could drop 5 of the axes to save some points. Put those guys up front to catch bullets and get killed off first.

[leth]

I'd run them in a kharybdis as it's more mobile and costs less points. You could drop 5 of the axes to save some points. Put those guys up front to catch bullets and get killed off first.

Axes are free for the black shields, its just you actually have to model it on them which is the hard part.

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

Am I reading this right - it's possible to take the Nemean Reaver in his Knight-Errant form, give the rest of the Blackshields force a rule that isn't 'Outlanders', as long as there is a separate HQ choice in the force that's the army's Warlord?

[Charlo]

Yeah I guess so.

[Dono1979]

Depends on the Wrought by War you take, some dont allow you to take Agents

[Gorgoff]

So, how do Apothecarii work fot the Outlander counting?

Speaking of, how do they count in Zone Mortalis games? They have to join and cannot leave one unit after all, so how does that work?

[Dono1979]

Its a little unclear and often comes down to the player group, there are a number of grey areas in relation to Apothecaries;

 

In regards to Apothecaries and units counts:
- They count as a whole separate unit (as they are purchased as an elite FoC choice) and only count as a whole unit destroyed when all members of the original FoC are killed

- They count as individual units as they have been split up and count as a unit destroyed when each one dies

- They dont count as anything as they have joined a unit permanently

 

In regards to Apothecaries and Scoring:

- They retain their Elite status and so cannot count as scoring, unless Elites can score, in which case they, as a model, can score.

- They take on the status of the squad which they join and score as if they were one of the squad.

I play with the first option from both.

[Gorgoff]

Its a little unclear and often comes down to the player group, there are a number of grey areas in relation to Apothecaries;

 

In regards to Apothecaries and units counts:

- They count as a whole separate unit (as they are purchased as an elite FoC choice) and only count as a whole unit destroyed when all members of the original FoC are killed

- They count as individual units as they have been split up and count as a unit destroyed when each one dies

- They dont count as anything as they have joined a unit permanently

 

In regards to Apothecaries and Scoring:

- They retain their Elite status and so cannot count as scoring, unless Elites can score, in which case they, as a model, can score.

- They take on the status of the squad which they join and score as if they were one of the squad.

 

I play with the first option from both.

Thanks for your reply.

I've asked my group and we'll go with "They're for all matters part of the unit" just like a Vexilla bearer or a Sergeant.

That makes stuff a lot easier.

[Charlo]

Yeah just count them as an honorary squad member.

 

That seems like the simplest and most elegant option.

[Charlo]

Revitalising this as my mind is drifting to Black Shields these days, maybe as a fun project after I've finished my current.

 

Obviously everyone goes for Chymeriae with +1S/T to make #BUFFBOIS (or perhaps Outlanders for Alpha + the Nemean Reaver) but what about the other options? Could they work or be something to build around?

 

Aggressive play is rewarded by Death Seekers, giving you no runners unless you are in combat and a 6+ FNP on top of that to keep you alive even longer.

 

Orphans of War is basically free preferred enemy to all the infantry in your army as long as you and your target have a sergeant in the squad and even if they don't you get "to hit" re-rolls of 1 and a useful Ld buff by playing squads in pairs. Obviously this is very strong with things like support squads.

 

Then we have the other Chymeriae traits, the most intrigiing of which is +1 WS/BS. Congrats all of your marines are now as skilled as Custodes. -2Ld is a burn sure, but if you take large squads to keep checks to a minimum you can get a lot of mileage out of this one. Infantry heavy of course but from my experience with Custodes, all of your shooting hitting on a 2+ and minimum WS of 5 is very nice to have.

 

How would you guys run an army that isn't the default Chymeriae with +1S/T or Outlanders?

[rendingon1+]

Ha, funny you wrote this because yesterday I was struggling with a concept of a stopgap-Blackshields-army-project that is not chimera+. But...I have no idea what to do with any other tactics, buffs are quite nice but downsides are waaay more painfull. This and lack of praetor, pods, single consul and more important no RoWs makes my angry. I've seen Outlanders wiped out in two turns thanks to "outlander instability"(bad rolls mayby), same guy tried orphans  of war and was obliterated by templates (vs IW heh) because he tried to keep this 6" between units.

[CaptainHelion]

Deathseekers is the (non-chimerae) option I prefer. Getting to ignore casualties from shooting for morale is good, and the 6+ FNP does help with survivability. Not as much as an apothecary, but it applies to everyone and is "free". It also allows for allies to be taken, which gives a bit more flexibility for the whole list. You do need to be planning your approaches fairly heavily, as not being able to reliably move away from your opponent's models can hamper your objectives game. 

It becomes very important for you to get some reliability on your LD for units that you're really relying on being able to shift around. Vexillae are always a good plan where possible. A chaplain brings Zealot, so you're auto-passing LD with whatever squad he's running with.

[Charlo]

Okay so an idea... I'm guessing this doesn't work but just checking...

 

Outlander Blackshields in an Army of Dark Compliance (to represent an Astartes Warlord and leagues of disposable troops under his heel).

 

Outlander Void-reavers rules state "Before the game begins, up to half of the detachments infantry units without dedicated transports may be given the Deep Strike special rule and enter play via reserve..."

 

The AoDC rules however state that "Any Legiones Astartes special rules that apply to units in the same detachment as the unit with the Legiones Astartes special rule do not apply to Militia units (eg, the Night Lords Night Vision special rule).

 

But, the Void-reavers rule doesn't call out LA specifically, just units in the detachment... So would this work? could I deep strike some basic humans/ Ogryns to do my bidding?

 

Regardless, what provenances would be good to use (want to avoid cult horde/ tainted flesh I suppose)...

[Brofist]

Clever thought, but you can't take black shields as the second half of your AoDC army.

 

For my militia 'corpse crows' I run feral warriors and tainted flesh. Scary in melee, but with leadership issues that balance them out. I prefer grenadiers over levy when I run them this way and I usually give them shotguns or augmented weapons. It's not ~optimal~ but if fits my crows and it's fun to play.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Bulbafist

[Charlo]

There was some discussion online and I think can you take BS with AoDC... The only requirements is that they are Legiones Astartes and Traitors, both of which BS are!

 

That does sound like a fun combo - doesn't ruin your shooting either too much and isn't as broken as Cult Horde/ Tainted Flesh.

[Novelist947]

Deathseekers is the (non-chimerae) option I prefer. Getting to ignore casualties from shooting for morale is good, and the 6+ FNP does help with survivability. Not as much as an apothecary, but it applies to everyone and is "free". It also allows for allies to be taken, which gives a bit more flexibility for the whole list. You do need to be planning your approaches fairly heavily, as not being able to reliably move away from your opponent's models can hamper your objectives game. 

It becomes very important for you to get some reliability on your LD for units that you're really relying on being able to shift around. Vexillae are always a good plan where possible. A chaplain brings Zealot, so you're auto-passing LD with whatever squad he's running with.

 

 

Clever thought, but you can't take black shields as the second half of your AoDC army.

 

For my militia 'corpse crows' I run feral warriors and tainted flesh. Scary in melee, but with leadership issues that balance them out. I prefer grenadiers over levy when I run them this way and I usually give them shotguns or augmented weapons. It's not ~optimal~ but if fits my crows and it's fun to play.

 

Yeah, you totally can make a Blackshield Dark Compliant army - and the restrictions are nothing. Your boss must either be a centurion or consul and you can't have more Blackshield infantry than militia infantry. This only makes Outlander list viable, and you can't bring Nermean Reaver as HQ because of the list restrictions. Bring 3 squads of militia infantry and 3 squad of blackshield infantry that can now deepstrike. Deepstriking terminators / support squad / marauders / heavy support squad? Yes please.

 

The militia make a fantastic anchor to your deepstrikers, and since you must be traitor, they can be Cult Horde and Tainted Flesh zealot and rending levies. This is an absolutely fantastic list that really compliments Blackshield Outlanders. 

[Brofist]

 

If you guys found a way around it, all the more power to you. Never seen it interpreted that way around here anyway

[Gorgoff]

 

If you guys found a way around it, all the more power to you. Never seen it interpreted that way around here anyway

That.

Black Shields are not in the Legiones Astartes Age of Darkness Army List. And besides any rule that applies to models in the AoDAL with the Legiones Astartes rule doesn't apply to the Militia models anyway so no benefit there either.

Oh, and the fluff section says that Armies of Dark Complience are natural opponents for Blackshields armies because that was the reason they where made for in the first place. ;)

[Charlo]

But that's just like any other legion, you still choose a Legiones Astartes rule and then have more restrictions/ advantages depending on that (in black shields case locks out Predators etc and grants access to Marauders etc)

 

By this logic if you played a Sons of Horus Army of Dark Compliance you wouldn't be able to take any Reavers or Justerian, as they are not part of the crusade army list...?

[Gorgoff]

But that's just like any other legion, you still choose a Legiones Astartes rule and then have more restrictions/ advantages depending on that (in black shields case locks out Predators etc and grants access to Marauders etc)

 

By this logic if you played a Sons of Horus Army of Dark Compliance you wouldn't be able to take any Reavers or Justerian, as they are not part of the crusade army list...?

Fluff beats crunch.

[Charlo]

 

But that's just like any other legion, you still choose a Legiones Astartes rule and then have more restrictions/ advantages depending on that (in black shields case locks out Predators etc and grants access to Marauders etc)

 

By this logic if you played a Sons of Horus Army of Dark Compliance you wouldn't be able to take any Reavers or Justerian, as they are not part of the crusade army list...?

Fluff beats crunch.

Great answer to the rules question presented.

 

Both Fluff and crunch are important, but you need to play with the ruleset presented for the sake of events and such (which is what is potentially be making this army for).

 

Okay so as explained the fluff is a rogue set of fleet Bourne Astartes with their human slave/ militia army. Due to a lack of resources the army is disorganized and more of a warband than a coherant force so the marines will use Militia vehicles and weapons with impunity.

[Gorgoff]

My Siege Breaker and Custodes Simieon where crazy in love and that's why my army of IW got allied Custodes... ;)

 

I don't think Blackshields can be part of an Army of Dark Complience because to me it is clear, that only the traitor legions can make that and that excludes them. They're no legion in that regard. But that's only my opinion based on the fluff and sort of rules too, although I admid that they are not to 100% excluded.

I wouldn't mind if an opponent would do that, though. After all it is all about having fun. :)

Edited July 1, 2018 by Gorgoff