[HH1.0] Black Shields Tactica

[The Scorpion]

It's odd that the regular marauders are so customizable, but the chieftain is so inflexible. Yet another RAW problem causing by the wording of "marauder" instead of simply "model".

[Cris R]

So I'm thinking of putting together a 1,500 point Black Shields force I can use for ZM and Centurion games. What list builds and Wrought by War traits would be good for a melee focused list for these formats?

[Brofist]

Marauders are excellent in ZM and up there with World Eater melee lists in terms of effectiveness. There are a number of good options for that format, the only one that you should avoid (for ZM specifically) is Outlanders. Chymeriae, Orphans of War, and Death Seekers are all pretty good. I'd probably rate Orphans of War, +1 S & T, and Fear, Fleet, and Rage as my top picks. For Cent, outlanders is viable and good. Just depends on what kind of list/army you want to have.

[Slips]

Also Pariah Flamers become extra tasty.

[The Scorpion]

Marauders are excellent in ZM and up there with World Eater melee lists in terms of effectiveness. There are a number of good options for that format, the only one that you should avoid (for ZM specifically) is Outlanders. Chymeriae, Orphans of War, and Death Seekers are all pretty good. I'd probably rate Orphans of War, +1 S & T, and Fear, Fleet, and Rage as my top picks. For Cent, outlanders is viable and good. Just depends on what kind of list/army you want to have.

What makes Orphans of War so good? Is it the rerolls to hit in shooting & melee?

[Brofist]

Preferred Enemy (Characters), +1LD, and re-rolls of 1. Since its ZM you're gonna be within 6" of friendly units more often than not, and if not, PE (character) confers. The drawbacks aren't that bad either.

[Cris R]

I just posted two ZM lists based on this feedback so take a look in the lists forum.

[JDizzle]

It's odd that the regular marauders are so customizable, but the chieftain is so inflexible. Yet another RAW problem causing by the wording of "marauder" instead of simply "model".

I've been thinking about this wording and I wonder if the marauder chieftan counts as a marauder since marauder is still in his title. In other cases such as "veteran space marines" and "veteran sergeants" the sergeant doesn't have space marine in his title so isn't classed as a "veteran space marine". Likewise, if you look at the 1 in 5 entry for vets, it says "1 in 5 veterans may exchange their bolter for one of the following", but there is no such entry as simply "veterans". Long story short, if a "veteran space marine" is a veteran, isn't a "marauder chieftan" a marauder?

 

Obviously, this still means that giving the chieftan a power weapon forces someone else in the squad has to give theirs up but it does mean you can feasibly take 4 power weapons and a power fist in a 20 man squad or 2 power weapons and a power fist in a 10 man squad. All that said, I think everyone can agree the whole thing is so vaguely worded and needs an FAQ.

 

On an unrelated note, has anyone had much experience with the Rage, Fleet, Fear Chymeriae? I've developed a desire to start a blackshield force with 20 dudes and a reaver lord riding a spartan but not sure if it's worth paying for shotguns on marines with -1BS that want to live the world eaters lifestyle.

[Brofist]

I don't think its worth it. If you're going melee, you should go all in with CCW + pistol imo

[Cadmus Tyro]

 

It's odd that the regular marauders are so customizable, but the chieftain is so inflexible. Yet another RAW problem causing by the wording of "marauder" instead of simply "model".

 

I've been thinking about this wording and I wonder if the marauder chieftan counts as a marauder since marauder is still in his title. In other cases such as "veteran space marines" and "veteran sergeants" the sergeant doesn't have space marine in his title so isn't classed as a "veteran space marine". Likewise, if you look at the 1 in 5 entry for vets, it says "1 in 5 veterans may exchange their bolter for one of the following", but there is no such entry as simply "veterans". Long story short, if a "veteran space marine" is a veteran, isn't a "marauder chieftan" a marauder?

 

Obviously, this still means that giving the chieftan a power weapon forces someone else in the squad has to give theirs up but it does mean you can feasibly take 4 power weapons and a power fist in a 20 man squad or 2 power weapons and a power fist in a 10 man squad. All that said, I think everyone can agree the whole thing is so vaguely worded and needs an FAQ.

 

On an unrelated note, has anyone had much experience with the Rage, Fleet, Fear Chymeriae? I've developed a desire to start a blackshield force with 20 dudes and a reaver lord riding a spartan but not sure if it's worth paying for shotguns on marines with -1BS that want to live the world eaters lifestyle.

Yes, check out my World eater/blackshield WIP blog. I tend to run either blackshields with Endryd Haar as loyalist WE or traitor WE with alternative HQs, depending on my mood/opponent. I will often run 15-20 marauders in a Spartan with Haar, equipped with chain axes BPs and shotguns. When running loyalist I always run the trait you mentioned.

 

I’ve had a fair few games now with both lists, I would say marauders are pretty brutal, they’re essentially veterans with +1Str and rage giving them additional attacks. Fear is a nice little rule, but it’s not been of any use so far given the high leadership or fearless nature of the units you should be targeting. They hit hard on the charge especially with Haars re-rolls and ability to win the majority of challenges. One game I managed to destroy a unit of castellax accompanied by Inar Satarael. Took two rounds to go through them fully, but for such a defensively strong unit, I was surprised.

 

Fleet is a rule I under appreciated, in one game the units Spartan was wrecked, but because of fleet the unit still made it into combat in a subsequent turn. I tend to run x3 15 man assault squads as well, fleet makes them extremely mobile and reliable units in terms of charge distance. Combined with Haars ability to scout infantry they’re really fast. I often scout one unit of assault marines in front on another to provide cover, then your opponent has to make a choice about shooting the screening unit (which is less of a threat that turn as it can’t charge) or the screened unit, which may be able to counter charge.

 

Shotguns are a fun option, I included them for the modelling opportunity really. It can help to have a few 1pt upgrade options to round out uneven points. They help take a few wounds of here and there (which isn’t an issue when you charging out of a Spartan generally) but, if you’re trying to be efficient with you points, they don’t add a great deal.

 

Comparing them to world eaters, blackshields have less reliable damage output on the charge, but blackshields with fleet are more mobile. They play slightly differently.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Cadmus

Edited September 22, 2021 by Cadmus Tyro

[Cris R]

I'm thinking of putting together a Blackshields list with Chymeriae option 3 where I run three ten-man Marauder squads with Chain Axes and Shotguns, each in their own Land Raider Phobos that I pop as a unit of three in my Heavy Support slot. While I like the idea of running them in a tank-focused list, the thing that gives me pause is knowing I can run 15 to 20 man squads that can be devastating when combined with this Chymeriae option. Would running ten-man squads diminish their ability to be effective with this Chymeriae option? If so, what are some other options that you have used to transport larger Marauder squads?

[Cadmus Tyro]

Well, the first issue is the tank squadron rule. If you take a landraider squadron they will all have to move together, which is a lot of points in one place thus diminishing your board control. Secondly, whilst marauders are decent, they are cost inefficient and as a transport option so are IMHO landraiders. You need to take more cost efficient units to balance the nature of marauders. Taking individual landraiders wastes heavy support slots.

 

Honestly, I would look at dreadclaws. They’re a cheaper transport option, give you a more reactive force with better board control and the best part....they’re a dedicated option for marauders.

 

Cadmus

[Cris R]

Well, the first issue is the tank squadron rule. If you take a landraider squadron they will all have to move together, which is a lot of points in one place thus diminishing your board control. Secondly, whilst marauders are decent, they are cost inefficient and as a transport option so are IMHO landraiders. You need to take more cost efficient units to balance the nature of marauders. Taking individual landraiders wastes heavy support slots.

 

Honestly, I would look at dreadclaws. They’re a cheaper transport option, give you a more reactive force with better board control and the best part....they’re a dedicated option for marauders.

 

Cadmus

Thanks for the advice. One advantage of Dreadclaws is the -1 BS penalty for option three doesn't undermine their utility, which is something I can't say for Land Raiders. The only issue with Dreadclaws is assembling them in real life and I've got enough time to do three of them right as I work on this army.

[Cadmus Tyro]

 

Well, the first issue is the tank squadron rule. If you take a landraider squadron they will all have to move together, which is a lot of points in one place thus diminishing your board control. Secondly, whilst marauders are decent, they are cost inefficient and as a transport option so are IMHO landraiders. You need to take more cost efficient units to balance the nature of marauders. Taking individual landraiders wastes heavy support slots.

Honestly, I would look at dreadclaws. They’re a cheaper transport option, give you a more reactive force with better board control and the best part....they’re a dedicated option for marauders.

Cadmus

 

Thanks for the advice. One advantage of Dreadclaws is the -1 BS penalty for option three doesn't undermine their utility, which is something I can't say for Land Raiders. The only issue with Dreadclaws is assembling them in real life and I've got enough time to do three of them right as I work on this army.

My understanding of the BS change (happy to be corrected here) is that it’s limited to models with LA:blackshields. So it only effects infantry. The LA:blackshield gives the model access to the wrought by war rule (“units will also have have additional special rules and abilities as described below”, page then progresses to include wrought by war as a special rule), which in turn gives you access to the chymeriae option.

 

RAW - vehicles don’t have access to LA:blackshields therefore are unaffected by the restrictions.

RAI - all the chymeriae options detail changes that mainly apply to infantry and often can’t be applied to vehicles. Therefore the intention is for it to affect LA:BS only.

 

But it’s ambiguous, so open to other interpretation.

 

With regarding to build dread claws, I hear you. Although I didn’t find the kit too hard to build. Another option would be a Spartan (you know this new plastic one ;)) and a dreadclaw. That way you can have one large unit with attached HQ and a second dropping turn 1 with more mobility. You’ve still got your x30 marines but with cheaper more versatile and potentially more durable transport options (compared with three LR Phobos).

 

Cadmus

[Cris R]

Ok, that's good to know and others can chime in whether we're on the mark. As for the Dreadclaw, I can do a kit bashed version if I want to get them on the board sooner rather than later.

[Nomadic Thunder]

I think the kit bashed dreadclaws would be quite thematic for blackshields in a make do with what you’ve got way.

Suggests they’re a force which has had to raid the older vehicle pools for old surplus machines.