Codex Rumors

[cracklingvoice]

I've heard a few times that the new 7th ed 'dex is supposed to come out at the end of the month ... has anyone heard any updates on it? I've not seen any leaks or other fun like the Wolves just got.

 

I know we are going to get a Decurion-style formation, and probably a few points adjustments here and there (Marines and Tau got that treatment, it's not that much to expect). I'm wondering if we're going to get a new unit somewhere (probably not, just going to get Baneblade variants in the LoW slot). Keeping with the other books, DTs are going to get folded into the FA slot as well.

 

I wonder what the formation is going to be set up like. The Cadian formations got a pretty mixed reaction from what I saw. The forums here and elsewhere were either slamming it or praising it (often on the same thread). I'm bracing for the reaction when our book comes out. I'm not going to wishlist, mainly because these last few books have thrown us some curveballs that nobody expected.

 

I'm just hoping that I can run the formation with a mech-platoon list. Okay, the one thing I would like is to see an Autocannon upgrade for the Chimera main gun. The multilaser is nice, but I like the higher strength as well as it being a shade more fun to model. A points drop would be cool, too ...

[HenricusTyranicus]

Sadly, none of the rumors about a codex this month have been confirmed by any credible sources, and several have even explicitly denied it.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

I'm perfectly fine with no new codex anytime soon. I think our codex is fine all we really need is a few formations.

[mertbl]

What is DT?

[duz_]

Dedicated transports

 

Last I heard on grapevine was that the cadian supplement was all we had slated for a while coming from the usual reliable suspects

 

Would be nice to have some cheaper formations though

[WarriorFish]

The early this year rumours for Guard are almost certainly not correct. Even with GW's tighter ship things start to leak closer to the time and we've heard nothing. Our codex is doing ok, we can wait for a bit longer :)

[Pablo Benigno]

I want my artillery tanks back, I miss the Colossus, the Griffon, the Medusa... :(

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Besides, Guard was the newest 6th ed codex if I'm not mistaken. There are other Books that need the attention more right now. Chaos for instance, CSM and Daemons both need to be updated. CSM can't compete, and with the new Psychic Phase, Daemons are a bit broken with their summoning spam. Tyranids also need a new book and some new balance.

 

One thing that bugs me about the New decurion style detachments, is that there's no way to get forgeworld assets into them. Granted very few of us actually have forgeworld models, but those of us that do don't get to use them as much. I'll be sticking with a CAD. Besides, all those formations makes it hard to keep track of who does what. I'd prefer to see some modified force org charts along with a decurion, so we can make greater use of our various other vehicles. Maybe more heavy support slots for a tank battalion, or more fast attack slots for a air assault/drop army/mechanized army.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

I believe you're correct, Ulrik, about AM being the newest 6th edition codex. If I recall it was released very shortly before 7th dropped and was clearly written with 7th in mind. I agree that others need new codices sooner and I'd rather see them get updated first. Plus I think at least some of those armies are more popular than AM so more likely to get an update as well.

[M@verik115]

I hate formations with a passion. Is it so hard to just release doctrines again? :( 

[Arcima]

If anything I just want the book layout updated so it is nice and easy to find things in it, the layout compared to all of my other books is just terrible!

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

If anything I just want the book layout updated so it is nice and easy to find things in it, the layout compared to all of my other books is just terrible!

What's bad about the layout? I hadn't noticed anything ... Granted I have the iBooks edition and make heavy use of the text with built-in pop ups.

[march10k]

Griffon! Griffon! We want the Griffon!

[morroccomole]

This is me speaking from the top of my head, but I think the Cadian Battlegroup formations were written with a points decrease from the new codex (whenever that may be) in mind. I would also be in keeping with the plastic-pushing aspect of the company in mind: if it were more feasible to field that many infantry models in a regular 1850-2000 point game, then customers would be more likely to shell out for the kits. That's not a crazy idea, right?

[duz_]

If that was the case though why not reduce the cost of the baneblade variants instead of copy pasting straight from escalation

[Akrim]

Cadian Battlegroup was mistaken for a rumoured new IG codex. As a detachment I'm not fond of it because of the lack of ObSec, but some of the formations I find are good. Not ITC level competitive, but not bad.

 

My biggest beef with the current book is it really didn't introduce many new units or concepts over 5th. I especially dislike the fact that they made them less dynamic in terms of deployment - almost no infiltration, outflanking, etc. Some cost fixing would be nice too.

 

But that said you do have allied options to make up for shortcomings.

[Tallarn Commander]

Yes, the 2014 codex lacked the creativity and mobility of the 2003 codex (doctrines, including infiltrain and deep striking doctrines) and the 2009 codex (blobbing up, AL 'Rahem, penal legion, etc.). GW sort of phoned in the 2014 codex although cheaper conscripts and better priests do give us a nice way to gain board control.

[cypherthefallenangel]

My biggest gripe about the current codex is we lost more than we gained.

Lost...

3-4 special characters

3 artillery tanks.

Ubergrit and specops doctrines on stormtroopers.

Ignore cover on hydra(really made them worthless)

Nerfed the crap outa vendettas.

Gained...

Better orders

Wyvern(brokenly OP)

Bullgrins(garbage)

Turdboxs(ok unit, terrabad model)

Platoon structure for stormtroopers( meh)

New commisar rules(sucks worse than before)

I hope the next dex isn't as crappy of an update as this one was.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Cadian Battlegroup was mistaken for a rumoured new IG codex. As a detachment I'm not fond of it because of the lack of ObSec, but some of the formations I find are good. Not ITC level competitive, but not bad.

 

My biggest beef with the current book is it really didn't introduce many new units or concepts over 5th. I especially dislike the fact that they made them less dynamic in terms of deployment - almost no infiltration, outflanking, etc. Some cost fixing would be nice too.

 

But that said you do have allied options to make up for shortcomings.

 

Yeah, it would be nice to have some alternate deployment options via formations. I miss my Al'Rahem outflanking platoon.

 

I keep seeing the acronym "ITC" ... from context I get the general idea of what it means but what does it stand for?

 

My biggest gripe about the current codex is we lost more than we gained.

Lost...

3-4 special characters

3 artillery tanks.

Ubergrit and specops doctrines on stormtroopers.

Ignore cover on hydra(really made them worthless)

Nerfed the crap outa vendettas.

Gained...

Better orders

Wyvern(brokenly OP)

Bullgrins(garbage)

Turdboxs(ok unit, terrabad model)

Platoon structure for stormtroopers( meh)

New commisar rules(sucks worse than before)

I hope the next dex isn't as crappy of an update as this one was.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say the current codex is "crappy", I think it's not bad. But I do agree with you that some of the stuff we lost was disappointing. I also really hate that fact that Wyverns are pretty much broken they are so powerful ... I hate "win button" units and I refuse to buy any.

 

You missed from things we gained the tank commander HQ option. That's not a bad addition.

 

I really miss the glory days of commissars back in 3rd/4th edition.

 

Disagree the Taurox is "terribad". While beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so opinions will legitimately differ, I think with some different paint schemes the Taurox can look pretty sharp (have a gander at the Assault on Lutum campaign thread there are at least two painted Taurox in there).

[Tallarn Commander]

Nicodemus,

 

I don’t know what ITC stands for.  But, for what it's worth, here’s what I know about it.

 

I believe it is a tournament circuit run by the folks at Front Line Gaming (although I might be wrong about that).  Basically, if you are tournament organizer at a FLGS you can choose to run an “ITC” style event.  I have no idea how you go about doing that though.

 

Agreeing to host an “ITC” style tournament has 3 implications (that I know of):

-ITC tournaments feature a distinct set of missions different from rule book missions (they often heavily favor getting into the opponent’s deployment zone, for instance).

-ITC tournament organizers have their own rules about what they do and don’t allow in tournaments, e.g Forgeworld, lords of war, etc. (this often influences other tournament organizers)

-ITC tournament organizers have issued their own FAQs if GW FAQ’s don’t cover a particular issue (again this often influences how other tournament organizers decide on rules questions).

 

I only know this because my FLGS is starting to run “ITC” style tournaments.  They previously had run “NOVA” style tournaments (based off of the NOVA tournament here in northern Virginia).  The NOVA folks also put forth their own missions, rules about what you can include in your list, and their own FAQ.  At any rate the shift rom, NOVA missions to ITC missions makes me sad because NOVA missions were friendlier for IG armies than are many ITC missions.  Hopefully your local FLGS does not start running ITC events.

 

Does anyone else know more about ITC?

 

 

Tallarn Commander

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I wouldn't go so far as to say the current codex is "crappy", I think it's not bad.

 

 

I think that's almost a worse condemnation. There's really not much incentive to play guard now. Space Marines can now squadron vehicles, and they shoot better. Not to mention the fact that we can field so many models is not only our greatest strength, but our greatest plight. Platoons and Squadrons allow us to ignore FOC to a degree. However, that makes guard unattractive to players who don't want to paint that many models.

 

The next Guard codex is an opportunity to make the guard a great army to play, as well as to bring it in line with the competitive armies. I don't like the new cheese that is the Decurion style detachment, but it would be nice to see us get one that gave us a couple of core options, one infantry, and one armor. I think C:MT should get rolled back into C:AM with an option to field MT as a standalone force.

 

 

My biggest gripe about the current codex is we lost more than we gained.

Lost...

3-4 special characters This sucks, I agree, Especially where my SW have a character for almost every FOC slot

3 artillery tanks. We still have the Basilisk, Manticore, and Deathstrike. Sure we gained but I agree there's a net loss. Still there's always FW.

Ubergrit and specops doctrines on stormtroopers. Stormies got simpler, simple is good. I do miss the pistol/ccw combo though.

Ignore cover on hydra(really made them worthless) No argument there.

Nerfed the crap outa vendettas. Not really, they lost 6 models of capacity, and they got a points hike. But really, did you ever put troops in one?

Gained...

Better orders Yeah, though they really only refined the orders system.

Wyvern(brokenly OP) The Wyvern is really a great arty tank.

Bullgrins(garbage) Disagree, will go into that in a moment.

Turdboxs(ok unit, terrabad model) Again I'll hit this one in a minute.

Platoon structure for stormtroopers( meh) Not meh.

New commisar rules(sucks worse than before) You mean for the LC?

I hope the next dex isn't as crappy of an update as this one was.

Ok, I'm gonna hit on some of this. My biggest points of contention are that Bullgryns are garbage, the taurox, the stormie platoon, and the Commissar.

 

Bullgryns: They have a couple of very specific uses. First is as a mobile defense line, which can be used to screen the advance of some other unit. Alternatively they're a close combat unit, and putting them out front forces your opponent to charge them to remove that cover granting slabsheild screen, or be assaulted by it. Alternatively their power maul/buckler combo gives them some use. Keep them in a chimera and you have a nasty surprise to deliver to your opponent. Not a great unit, but certainly not garbage.

 

Stormie Platoon: Above I extolled the benefits of the bullgryn, well, have you ever wanted to get those three squads of stories in and your two squads of Bullgryn/Ogryn as well? Now that Stormies come in platoons, you can. You get to ignore that annoying FOC restriction and take both. Not so meh now is it? Certainly not a good trade for pistol/ccw though.

 

Taurox: I can see not liking the model. In fact I have seen some wheel kits for them, and they look great. I like the thing because it looks like a Grimdark MRAP with Grimdark Matttracks. As for the rules, it's overcosted in both versions. THe vanilla taurox, should be 35 points, or 40 points with fast. The prime needs to be 65 points or there about. Ideally the Chimera should be in between at about 55.

 

Last the Commissar: The Ld 10 bubble that the LC gives is amazing, as well as granting stubborn is boss. The LC is a pretty solid IC HQ choice, in fact, the only one we have, and sometimes a better take than a CCS.

 

To be sure our codex is not bad, it's a solid book, very balanced. Unfortunately, there's an old saying about, if you're the only sane one does that make you crazy?

[Arcima]

I agree it is a very balanced book, but people don't want balanced items.  While I can see and sympathize with many of the grievances stated here I don't believe our current codex is bad at all.  This may come from me only ever playing this codex and not any earlier ones, but I have found the only parts of this book I dislike is how useless (for me) the order system is if you run a fully mechanized list.  In most games I will only get 4-5 orders off around turn 5-6 either because I have out run my officers, my officers are dead, or the Chimera is still alive.

 

I find Bullygryns to be a wonderful unit to have, they are tough five three wound models, with a potential for a 3+ armor save.  That is pretty good!  The downside would be their blast gauntlets, being very bulky, and our lack of a cheap assault vehicle.  If I could put my Bullygryns in a raider the cries of over powered would be deafening.  I don't find them to be a bad unit, they just have a hard time fitting in with out current guard codex.  As always there is a niche market for them, you just have to find it.

 

As far as no ignore cover on the hydra.... I would prefer Interceptor to ignores cover any day.  Unless I am against Codex: Flying Hive Tyrant or a Greater Demon spam list.  I have plenty of ways to get Ignore Cover.

 

I find the Lord Commissar lacking in only one way, He takes up an HQ slot.  If he was an upgrade to a regular commissar he would (probably) have more table time.  That isn't saying I never use one!  He is fielded just as often as a tank commander for me, if not more often!

 

The last two problems I have with our transports is that the Chimera is designed to be an Infantry Fighting Vehicle, compared to the Rhino which is a metal box that drives you closer to the other board edge.  The Chimera has two good weapons on it, that are sadly BS 3 and not on a fast vehicle.  How am I supposed to provide fire support while delivering my grunts to the front line if I have to snap shoot half of my weapons?  Crawling forward six inch each time is a reasonable option but then you are limiting the guys in side, which is the real reason you drooped 65 points for the sexiest tank in the game.

[march10k]

Cadian Battlegroup was mistaken for a rumoured new IG codex. As a detachment I'm not fond of it because of the lack of ObSec, but some of the formations I find are good. Not ITC level competitive, but not bad.

 

 

I don't use it, but I think some of the elements are pretty good.  Outflanking armored sentinels?  Yes, please!  The tank core choice is good as a standalone detachment, too, with its BS4 bubble (I'm thinking BS4 vanquishers with lascannons).  Either of those is nice bolted on to a CAD, in my opinion. I would never go for the whole Cadian Battlegroup list, but picking up 1-2 elements from it looks good to me.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I agree it is a very balanced book, but people don't want balanced items.  While I can see and sympathize with many of the grievances stated here I don't believe our current codex is bad at all.  This may come from me only ever playing this codex and not any earlier ones, but I have found the only parts of this book I dislike is how useless (for me) the order system is if you run a fully mechanized list.  In most games I will only get 4-5 orders off around turn 5-6 either because I have out run my officers, my officers are dead, or the Chimera is still alive.

Like I said, "not bad" is just like saying "mediocre", which in this current meta is almost a worse condemnation than crap. The fact that the book is balanced makes it easy to build balanced lists, which means it's a good fair book, and means that my guard army will almost certainly be an acceptable opponent.

 

As for the uselessness of orders, I really tend to forget them. I mean I want to take advantage of them, but the C:AM ones are sort of hit or miss for me, get back in the fight is great, as is fire on my target, and FRFSRF. But in general I find the C:MT orders to be more useful, since with those you can wreck monstrous creatures more reliably, wounding on 4's and ignoring armor (for most MC's without a 2+). I agree that taking advantage of orders in a mobile list (Mech and Airborne both suffer the problem) is difficult.

 

 

I find Bullygryns to be a wonderful unit to have, they are tough five three wound models, with a potential for a 3+ armor save.  That is pretty good!  The downside would be their blast gauntlets, being very bulky, and our lack of a cheap assault vehicle.  If I could put my Bullygryns in a raider the cries of over powered would be deafening.  I don't find them to be a bad unit, they just have a hard time fitting in with out current guard codex.  As always there is a niche market for them, you just have to find it.

I had the same idea of bullgryns in a land raider. I'd ally in my wolves for it, take 2 units of Jump Pack wolf guard with a jump leader, and a land raider crusader too. That would be a vicious combo. I agree we need a good assault vehicle to deliver our bullgryns, at least something that doesn't take up that valuable LoW slot.

 

 

As far as no ignore cover on the hydra.... I would prefer Interceptor to ignores cover any day.  Unless I am against Codex: Flying Hive Tyrant or a Greater Demon spam list.  I have plenty of ways to get Ignore Cover.

I'd give up interceptor to ignore jink saves. Especially with a properly kitted out Tau, Eldar, or Dark Angels army, that 2-3+ jink save is stupid. Granted the model has to snap fire, but still, I don't want the thing snap firing, that can still do damage, I want it gone.

 

 

I find the Lord Commissar lacking in only one way, He takes up an HQ slot.  If he was an upgrade to a regular commissar he would (probably) have more table time.  That isn't saying I never use one!  He is fielded just as often as a tank commander for me, if not more often!

I actually find that to be a strength. Having a cheap IC HQ choice makes me happy since I can take those points and drop them somewhere else in my army. And then my strategies don't revolve around keeping my CCS alive so it can keep doing stuff. Don't get me wrong, It would be nice if a regular commissar had the Ld10 bubble of the LC, given that HQ slots are at a premium, but I can't always afford to take Yarrick.

 

 

The last two problems I have with our transports is that the Chimera is designed to be an Infantry Fighting Vehicle, compared to the Rhino which is a metal box that drives you closer to the other board edge.  The Chimera has two good weapons on it, that are sadly BS 3 and not on a fast vehicle.  How am I supposed to provide fire support while delivering my grunts to the front line if I have to snap shoot half of my weapons?  Crawling forward six inch each time is a reasonable option but then you are limiting the guys in side, which is the real reason you drooped 65 points for the sexiest tank in the game.

Fast would definitely help the Chimera in terms of shooting. And I'm surprised March didn't mention this, but in order to get the full effect, you spend a turn snap shooting to move 12 inches. Then you move flat out since shooting is useless. Next turn you're on the objective, and then you can dump the payload, and shoot the chimera. Looking at the old codex, stormies losing their doctrines sucks because under the new rules scouts confer their rule to their transport, you could take a full 12" move for your scout redeploy, and then move 12 more inches, and then flat out another 6, giving you 30 inches of total movement, not to mention the fact that you probably deployed at the edge of your DZ, so you can get into your opponent's DZ for line breaker really easily. It would be nice if there was a BS4 chimera upgrade.

 

 

 

I don't use it, but I think some of the elements are pretty good.  Outflanking armored sentinels?  Yes, please!  The tank core choice is good as a standalone detachment, too, with its BS4 bubble (I'm thinking BS4 vanquishers with lascannons).  Either of those is nice bolted on to a CAD, in my opinion. I would never go for the whole Cadian Battlegroup list, but picking up 1-2 elements from it looks good to me.

 

I can't field it, I don't have enough infantry, or enough tanks. I can only field one of the Auxiliaries, because I lack the models for the others. The Veteran formation should have been a core choice, but hey that's me.

 

I dug into the old codex yesterday, and found out that Vets used to have CCW's in their profile. Granted that does nothing without a pistol to go with it, but still, it would be nice if we got them back.

[WarriorFish]

Given we have no new rumours to discuss and no need to recycle our thoughts on what could/should come I think this topic has nothing further to offer. We can return once we have some new rumour cud to chew.