DarkChaplain Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 His authority on background matters, ESPECIALLY concerning Chapters and Legions he is not actively writing, is in no way above that of Gav, or any other writer. No matter how much you adore him and put him on a pedestal, he is still a freelance author writing for BL, not an editor, lore-guru or Alan Merrett incarnate. He has to do the same research into the subject matter as any other author, and rely on editor approval. He absolutely IS above those other authors considering he's the one being allowed to write the major heresy movers and shakers. Lorgar, father of the heresy and the Emperor. I don't see any Gav novels about anything but side character Primarchs. Besides, I find it hilariously bad that you judge Gav's personality as in "he's a worse guy than AD-B". How condescending and disrespectful can you possibly be? First, ADB takes the time out of his day to talk to us. Gav doesn't. Second, you don't get to determine what is and isn't disrespectful, you're just some anonymous poster like the rest of us. Leave the Moderating to the Mods. Any further attempts to police my opinions or the opinions of other posters will be reported. It's not your job to try and control us. If you can't be civil, don't try to bully other posters into agreeing with you. I criticised your attitude and sweeping judgements, and there you go basically threatening me with reporting me for daring to disagree? That's quite something. Like it or not, your whole way of talking about Gav on this page has been disrespectful, from the high and mighty "until he comes in here himself to defend his creative decisions" (which are approved by the editors and likely Merrett too) angle to judging him as a person based on forum participation. I was not "policing" your opinions, I was calling you out on your hyperbolic statements and attitude that got down to a personal level. That is all. I did not insult you, or act in any way out of turn, unlike you did in your reply. Going full ad-hominem, implying I was being uncivil and trying to "bully" you into agreeing with me... Emperor have mercy. FYI, Gav has been replying every so often over on Warseer, even just a few days ago. He has explained his stuff on various occassions. But he does not owe fan forums his time, or justify his choices. His obligations are to the editorial staff at BL, not users on B&C. As nice as it would be for him to come here, I can see why he wouldn't make it a habit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqui Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Enough. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but insulting others because it doesn't fit your own is unacceptable. It stops now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000 Sons Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 I hope it keeps the focus on Zaharial like the first book, seeing the events of the DA civil war through his point of view would be very interesting. Hopefully Lion leaves Macregge in the first 2 chapters, seeing him get in an argument (or fight) with Sanguinius and Roboute and storming off to return to Caliban without giving a reason, and making Sang and Rob question his and his legions loyalties would be some nice foreshadowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veterannoob Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Not sure about Zahareal but Gav said in my interview last week when the book starts the Lion is in Ultramar but not on McC. No spoiler but the recent audio drama The Dark Between the Stars is a prologue to Pharos and ends up with the Lion taking his next move, like physically moving:) that's all I'll say to avoid spoilers . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taliesin Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Is there any way to get that audio drama? I don't see it on the BL website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veterannoob Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Not sure why it got pulled. Someon mentioned title. Hopefully back up soon. I did check my downloads and the purchase is still there, glad it bought this when I did:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 The title is another potential copyright infringement case like the Dark Hunters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 The title is another potential copyright infringement case like the Dark Hunters. Wow...but it's a Gav Thorpe book...so I care less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 The title is another potential copyright infringement case like the Dark Hunters. Wow...but it's a Gav Thorpe book...so I care less Its Laurie Goulding's The Dark Between the Stars, not Angels of Caliban. But good for you, I'm very disappointed or even angry when a good product gets pulled over nonsense like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 I see...the Dark Between the Stars is the title of a book by Kevin Anderson: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Saga_of_Shadows Come on BL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 And so it go again. As an editor I declare - that starting from today - authors would use whatever titles they want! If someone want to start a lawsuite - he should be stoned to death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 There are certain specific cases where I'd agree that a title duplicate would be problematic. Like calling your series Lord of the Rings or Wheel of Time, or The Stormlight Archive. Those are all either very well-known or very specific. It would be very difficult for anyone in either Fantasy or Scifi to name their books the same by accident, which would lead to the conclusion that they conciously copied the title. And then you have cases like this, where there is a rather generic phrase used as the title of an individual novel, which was then used, surely without any intent or even awareness of the other work, for a short story/audio drama. Unlike in the former case, there is no ill intent here, and unlike with series titles, individual book titles overlapping is hardly uncommon. The title is not specific enough, nor big enough, to warrant the trademark/copyright drama. Looking at my BL shelf, a few books can be protected like that, like Gotrek & Felix as a series title, Ahriman: Exile, Skarsnik, Fall of Damnos or Chains of Golgotha. Cases like Headtaker, Swords of the Emperor, Death of Integrity, Salamanders: The Omnibus, or Ravenwing should not be allowed the same protection, though. They are generic terms strung together in a generic way that only in context to the imagery on the cover and the subject matter would hold any recognition. There are multiple novels titled Ravenwing on Goodreads, for example, and a bunch of results using Death of Integrity in one way or another. Outside of BL, The Martian does not seem like a defensible title to me. Neither does Promise of Blood (which is represented in many different ways on Goodreads), or Malice. Powder Mage, or The Faithful and the Fallen could be protected as series names, however. I also still think that the risk of confusion around Dark Hunters: Umbra Sumus is nonsensical. Nobody would confuse one series with that book. The title isn't even the same in the first place, nor is the genre or subject matter. Nobody would look at the cover and think "oh, that's part of that one series!". It just doesn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judassem Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 "Sanguinius vs. Curze - throneroom encounter and brief duel" Which book does this happen in? I don't remember reading this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopkins Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 "Sanguinius vs. Curze - throneroom encounter and brief duel" Which book does this happen in? I don't remember reading this. Pharos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tymell Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 And it is glorious :D It's a great scene, both the dialogue beforehand and the duel itself. Pharos makes me want to see Guy Haley taking a crack at the Blood Angels more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 It doesn't really fit for Kurze since he's insane, but eventually I want to see a loyalist and traitor Primarch just talk. Like normal people do when they have a falling out with their family. Yell and throw stuff, and then just leave. You never get the feeling these guys were brothers with the other team. We got close in Savage Weapons, and I actually felt like Angron and Lorgar were real brothers treating each other the same way people do when a family member is addicted to drugs or a vegan. I want Dorn and Perturabo to finally cross paths and have the mother of all 'you never loved me' moments, and then mutually be unable to kill each other or even physically attack one another because beneath all that iron and stone they re just dysfunctional brothers pretending like they are sure of themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carach Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 It doesn't really fit for Kurze since he's insane, but eventually I want to see a loyalist and traitor Primarch just talk. Like normal people do when they have a falling out with their family. Yell and throw stuff, and then just leave. You never get the feeling these guys were brothers with the other team. We got close in Savage Weapons, and I actually felt like Angron and Lorgar were real brothers treating each other the same way people do when a family member is addicted to drugs or a vegan. I want Dorn and Perturabo to finally cross paths and have the mother of all 'you never loved me' moments, and then mutually be unable to kill each other or even physically attack one another because beneath all that iron and stone they re just dysfunctional brothers pretending like they are sure of themselves. Angron/Lorgar one was done really well. Kurze does have that kind of thing with Sang though in Pharos. Ofc Kurze being Kurze he is incapable of having a conversation without some kind of malice involved but it was pretty much as you wish in your quote. The dorn/perturabo one would be pretty good but i can't see how that would occur unless it was at the very end, post-Horus' death, Perturabo being one of the last to leave Terra or something with a final damning conversation between the two before he teleports offworld and makes for space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 And it is glorious :D It's a great scene, both the dialogue beforehand and the duel itself. Pharos makes me want to see Guy Haley taking a crack at the Blood Angels more often. Would disagree Sanguinius' personality is quite weak when done by Haley. He comes off as goody two shoes Haley does Curze well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I got the impression that the duel was the side show and their conversation was the actual content. Kurze had been given a huge power boost in several Novels recently. It will be nice to see him perhaps a little vulnerable in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 And it is glorious It's a great scene, both the dialogue beforehand and the duel itself. Pharos makes me want to see Guy Haley taking a crack at the Blood Angels more often. Would disagree Sanguinius' personality is quite weak when done by Haley. He comes off as goody two shoes Haley does Curze well I'd disagree. Sanguinius, for the first time, actually feels the way he should. Fear to Tread made me groan with how it depicted him most of the time, with some exceptions. The Unremembered Empire had him in for like two scenes, with very little dialogue. It felt more like Abnett just then remembered he had 10 pages left and looked at the cover to realize what he was supposed to be writing in the first place. An afterthought at best. In Pharos, Haley has given form to the misgivings Sanguinius has been harboring about his position in Imperium Secundus. We were told about them before, but this time we actually experience them. Of course Sanguinius will act like "goody two shoes" - he's the angel. He's the one the other Primarchs looked up to, who they thought could've been figurehead of the Imperium, who was full of nobility and grace. Yes, he has skeletons in his closet too. We know of those, and they are referenced in Pharos too. But that's not what his role was about. He wasn't there as a warrior, not as father to the red thirst or black rage. He was there as the symbol of loyalty and the Emperor's vision for humanity. In a lot of ways, Sanguinius is a mirror to Curze. Where Konrad turns a blind eye to the depravities of his sons and detaches himself from responsibility for them, Sanguinius takes it as his own fault. He does what needs to be done by executing his own sons if need be, but not out of pleasure like Curze. He sees visions of his own death just the same, and yet does not let them rule him, where Konrad does. He clings to humanity and goodness where Curze has embraced the dark and madness. All this gets apparent in Pharos, without even needing much space in the novel. There is a lot more to Haley's depiction of Sanguinius than you're giving him credit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Sanguinius in 'Pharos' has the best depiction in Horus Heresy to date! b1soul Definitely much better than horrible 'Fear to Thread' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob P Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Don't think anyone's mentioned it here but in Pharos the Night Haunter mentions something that happened to him in the warp (assassination attempt iirc) that has not occurred in the novels yet. Could be an indication that the time span of Angels of Caliban is lengthy, could be unrelated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabadin Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Don't think anyone's mentioned it here but in Pharos the Night Haunter mentions something that happened to him in the warp (assassination attempt iirc) that has not occurred in the novels It happened in the end of Unrembered Empire. The perpetuals sent him to the warp when he tried to steal the spear from them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veterannoob Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Sanguinius in 'Pharos' has the best depiction in Horus Heresy to date! b1soul Definitely much better than horrible 'Fear to Thread' This this this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 My personal expectation is that there should be a very prominent, sinister undercurrent to Sanguinius' character. There should be a duality or a spectrum. One aspect/extreme should be this righteous, awe-inspiring angel almost like the Archangel Michael. The other aspect/extreme should be that of a blood-craving mutant, which he arguably is. He aspires to be the former...but fears that his true nature is closer to the latter. Haley's Sanguinius just seems like a nice, sensible and sensitive guy. Maybe Haley simply hasn't explored the potential evil fundamental to Sang's character Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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