IA - [Insert Name] - Working out the idea

[Dizzyeye01]

Hey again, having another attempt to creating a chapter that fits in well with the universe as a whole. I've tried to separate my thoughts on individual parts of the chapter and I'll see where it goes from there. Anyway here's the start of it.
Space Marine Chapter ideas

Tactics involved ambush tactics (Specialised) along with void combat/urban terrainAre not glory seekers at all, if anything see themselves as needed monsters due to horus heresy and seek to redeem themselves for past mistakes (Honour bound)


Origins

[Name] came into records around the 3rd Founding however there are rumors of astartes wearing similar colours before then

Homeworld

• Homeworld is a former prison world, now ruled by gangs as authorities fell during the Age of Strife. World contains a lot of ruins along with tunnels going deep into the planet. Wildlife mostly includes feral hounds once gene-crafted to keep prisoners in line.
• Fortress Monastry
• Parts of the homeworld such as tunnels etc use the old functioning prison systems to keep gangs out of certain areas
• The Fortress itself has been built from what’s thought to be the original nerve centre of the prison bolstered by the chapter

Due to the loss of data during the Age of Strife, many records about the world [blank] have been lost. However, thanks to the efforts of the Adeptus Mechanicus a basic idea of what happened to the planet was formed. Once a penal world, [blank] had been cut off from the rest of humanity with dire consequences for its people. Soon enough, the guards who had been in control of the planet soon became overwhelmed when their supplies had been cut and the prisoners ran rampart across the planet.

By the time that the training cadre of the [blank] found the world, it had devolved itself into a feral world. After the fall of the guards, gangs had formed and taken over parts of the prison, conducting bloody warfare amongst each other to prove who were the strongest. Over time, the smaller gangs were destroyed by rival gangs or forced to return back to the cells which they were first imprisoned in for fear of destruction. The stronger gangs themselves would begin to lord over the surface and contest each over for control of the surface. None would gain complete control however due to the balance of power: if one gang was starting to endanger the others then they would find themselves picked apart.

Technology itself on the planet had also become rare due to the lack of care given by the prisoners. Scavenging became common place amongst the gangs, some using materials to bolster their own forces while others used them as offerings to more powerful gangs just so that they could survive. Others act as water carriers, taking water from the reservoirs deep in the tunnels and bringing it up to the surface. This brings its own risks, making the gang a target to other rivals wanting to make their own progress or just to simply survive. However, there is a place that no gang would make their home. One where only the [blank] have made their home…

Beliefs

• Gangs on homeworld give recruits sense of honour + survival of the fittest, chapter enforces it
• Bling such as medals, parades etc are considered a waste of time and only boast egos, leading to peoples’ downfalls, has created tension with some Imperial Guard regiments
• Disputes within the chapter are settled in honour duels with first blood
• Bonds of brotherhood are strong amongst the chapter
• Betraying the Imperium is considered the greatest of offensives and strike forces will be formed to hunt down former members of the chapter, including their former squad due to
• Chapter believes that offensive attacks are needed more defence so that the enemy can’t touch the Imperium.
• Belief that they are weapons made for war, since they were born into war

Combat Doctrine

• Due to urban/tunnel terrain, chapter has become adapt at handling void warfare in ships along with urban terrain, using a variety of flamers and melta guns

Organisations

Slight change to codex astartes, support companies aren’t specialised and instead are same as battle company. Support companies are also paired with battle company but more flexible in terms of equipment they’ll bring.


Geneseed/Recruitment

• Formed from Ultramarine geneseed
• Recruits are selected from the gangs, selecting the toughest, strongest and cunning.
• Gangs send in who they see as the best to arenas so that the gang will gain supplies from the chapter
• Arenas’ were introduced by the chapter to weed out the weak and find those worthy of becoming space marines
• Other recruits are found outside of arenas’ while looking for supplies or in the middle of gang warfare.

Battle Cry

#

-------------

I'll make it look better once I'm home but any C&C is greatly appreciated here

Changelog

2/3/16: Geneseed/Recruitment has been updated.

4/3/16: Homeworld has been updated

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Honestly I think it's a fairly solid idea.

 

I like the idea of a prison world being taken by the Astartes as a homeworld. I also really like the 'we're a necessary evil' viewpoint as well.

 

Ambush and urban tactics works well when taken as being influenced by their homeworld, though why void combat? If you're talking about boarding actions then they'd probably have an edge, sure, but this is one of the Space Marines defining strengths as-is. What I mean to ask is, the others I get, and I can understand why you'd put void tactics up there too, I just have a feeling it was added in rather than being part of the original draft.

 

Gangs on homeworld give recruits sense of honour

 

 

Maybe it's just me, but I'd never view a gang as honourable. A limited honour among thieves type deal perhaps, but it's like Organized crime of any stripe, the person who kills you is always your best friend, and he's always smiling, you're used as an asset and spent as a pawn for largely petty gains. Honour is not something I'd personally assign to roaming gangs.

 

Now, if you perhaps expanded on the concept and turned it more towards the fact that what started out as roaming prison gangs, turned into something more tribal, as you'd expect to see given that once the initial petty conflicts had run their course for a few years, the pressing needs of continued survival and legacy come into view it would work better. The gangs would have to go from 'kill on sight' to 'work it out' because no one wants to have their young and vulnerable constantly under threat. Even the worst murderors, rapists, hate-groups (unless sociopathic/psychopathic) love their children and partners, at least by their own definition of their behavior and emotional attachment.

 

If the gangs bring in an honour system when dealing with each other, it makes survival much more possible.

 

Too much maybe? Maybe. It's possible I got carried away.

 

Overall solid start, just needs some expanding upon.

[Dizzyeye01]

Honestly I think it's a fairly solid idea.

 

I like the idea of a prison world being taken by the Astartes as a homeworld. I also really like the 'we're a necessary evil' viewpoint as well.

 

Ambush and urban tactics works well when taken as being influenced by their homeworld, though why void combat? If you're talking about boarding actions then they'd probably have an edge, sure, but this is one of the Space Marines defining strengths as-is. What I mean to ask is, the others I get, and I can understand why you'd put void tactics up there too, I just have a feeling it was added in rather than being part of the original draft.

 

Gangs on homeworld give recruits sense of honour

 

 

Maybe it's just me, but I'd never view a gang as honourable. A limited honour among thieves type deal perhaps, but it's like Organized crime of any stripe, the person who kills you is always your best friend, and he's always smiling, you're used as an asset and spent as a pawn for largely petty gains. Honour is not something I'd personally assign to roaming gangs.

 

Now, if you perhaps expanded on the concept and turned it more towards the fact that what started out as roaming prison gangs, turned into something more tribal, as you'd expect to see given that once the initial petty conflicts had run their course for a few years, the pressing needs of continued survival and legacy come into view it would work better. The gangs would have to go from 'kill on sight' to 'work it out' because no one wants to have their young and vulnerable constantly under threat. Even the worst murderors, rapists, hate-groups (unless sociopathic/psychopathic) love their children and partners, at least by their own definition of their behavior and emotional attachment.

 

If the gangs bring in an honour system when dealing with each other, it makes survival much more possible.

 

Too much maybe? Maybe. It's possible I got carried away.

 

Overall solid start, just needs some expanding upon.

 

Thanks for the input just to start it off. Now to answer you're points:

 

1. From my point of view due to the homeworld having tunnels that lead to supplies of water mean that it is a necessity to one of these reservoirs which can be quite dangerous considering all the possible routes to get to one and all the chances to be ambushed by rival gangs would mean that those who are recruited to be space marines would have an edge in void combat. Apologies if that wasn't in the above list :)

 

2. True, I would never say they are honourable compared to knights however it's that honour amongst thieves part which I'm wanting to focus on. When you're part of a gang you treat everyone like brothers and in return you'll be treated as one. Everyone else is fair game however you hurt the gang then there will be consequences. It's when they become space marines is when honour to the chapter, your squad and the Imperium is enforced. They may still play dirty to survive however they still live by a code of sorts. You do raise a good idea though in the gangs turning more tribal which sounds quite good actually. Things would be tense between them however it won't be just kill on sight.

 

Thanks for the suggestions GHY. One idea I was playing around in my head was naming the Chapter the Warborn because for them, ever since they have been born, they have been fighting to survive. I know it's the nickname of the XIIIth hence why I'm hesitant on using it. Thoughts?

[TDF]

One comment I wanted to make is that you mention the Horus Heresy as an inspiration for the mentality of the Chapter and state the founding as 3rd with the possibility of it being earlier than that. Why not just explicitly make it 2nd? That gives you a lot more freedom to write about the experiences and personalities of the astartes that founded the chapter and gave it its mission.

 

You talk about the bonds of brotherhood being strong in the chapter, but are those tight-knit cliques based on former gang membership? Or does the chapter abolish the gang divides and actively partner up individuals from different backgrounds?

 

As for names, perhaps [Adjective] Judges or [Adjective] Hunters?

[Dizzyeye01]

One comment I wanted to make is that you mention the Horus Heresy as an inspiration for the mentality of the Chapter and state the founding as 3rd with the possibility of it being earlier than that. Why not just explicitly make it 2nd? That gives you a lot more freedom to write about the experiences and personalities of the astartes that founded the chapter and gave it its mission.You talk about the bonds of brotherhood being strong in the chapter, but are those tight-knit cliques based on former gang membership? Or does the chapter abolish the gang divides and actively partner up individuals from different backgrounds?As for names, perhaps [Adjective] Judges or [Adjective] Hunters?

Thanks for the critique TDF, I'll try and answer to the best of my abilities:

 

1. The initial idea I had with the founding was that while the training cadre had been formed from Ultramarines, they weren't exactly with the chapter after the second founding and didn't have the best reputation. To put it simply they were a force of Black shields who had managed to survive the Horus Heresy and only rejoined the Imperium after finding out that Horus was dead. Looking at the idea now though and I'm starting to think it may be too Mary Sue-ish. As you said going down the route of the 2nd Founding may be the simpler and better way to go.

 

2. In terms of brotherhood, the chapter abolishes the divide that the gangs could make. In fact I thought that they may even try remove any physical signs of the gang the recruit was from so that from the beginning they would have no idea who came from where and so on.

 

3. For me, (adjective) Judges is unfitting for the chapter. For them, calling themselves judges implies something which they aren't. They aren't the Inquisition who declares whole worlds heretical. They are weapons and tools to be used to keep the Imperium intact. Hunters on the other hand is something more humble. They stalk their prey before delivering the killing blow. So for me I'm leaning heavily on Hunters unless someone gives a good argument for Judges.

 

Thanks again for the comments, always good to get other people's point of view :)

[Conn Eremon]

Hey, if we had never known about the Blackshields, the Chapter would have been just another with an obscured origin, something that is neither uncommon nor out of place with Chapters. Might seem overdone, but if you want it, do it.

 

It seems like the Chapter both utilizes and deconstructs the gang culture of its recruitment stock. On one hand, it reinforces the concept of a gang brotherhood, the sense of (misguided/misplaced) duty and honor becomes attributed to their place within the Chapter. On the other hand, in the process of recruitment and training they seem to repress each recruit's gang-identity, their rivalries and relationships.

 

This isn't uncommon either. We're told that Chapters, 99% of the time, completely overwrite their recruits' former identities, and yet home world cultures still tend to be powerful influences. So I'm not pointing it out because I think it's a bad thing, but because it seems like it'd be rather noticeable in this Chapter.

 

Might be something to consider, perhaps the process is of varying effectiveness, either the deconstruction or the reinforcement.

[Dizzyeye01]

Thanks for the comments Conn. I think the thing is with the Blackshield idea is that while it does add mystery to the chapter, it doesn't add much else compared to being a 2nd Founding chapter along with being able to explain why the chapter is the way it is. There wouldn't be any real changes that effect the chapter as a whole as the training cadre per say have the same point of view and so on.

 

It seems like the Chapter both utilizes and deconstructs the gang culture of its recruitment stock. On one hand, it reinforces the concept of a gang brotherhood, the sense of (misguided/misplaced) duty and honor becomes attributed to their place within the Chapter. On the other hand, in the process of recruitment and training they seem to repress each recruit's gang-identity, their rivalries and relationships.

This isn't uncommon either. We're told that Chapters, 99% of the time, completely overwrite their recruits' former identities, and yet home world cultures still tend to be powerful influences. So I'm not pointing it out because I think it's a bad thing, but because it seems like it'd be rather noticeable in this Chapter.

Might be something to consider, perhaps the process is of varying effectiveness, either the deconstruction or the reinforcement.

 

I never thought of that actually. I didn't consider if the effects of repressing the gang-identity would be 100% effective or not along with the possible effects on the chapter. If anything this can mean that there is a bit more of a rebellious side of recruits who are for one reason or another not accepting that part of life for them being over to them. Kinda like the Blood Claws from the Space Wolves in terms of attitude but not as extreme as them. 

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

I actually quite like the idea of the Blackshields in concept.

 

What I'd be interested in knowing is exactly what the terms of these marines repatriation into the Imperium involved, considering what would be treated as extreme dereliction of duty on their part.

 

It would either involve the keeping of a secret, the telling of a convenient lie in their being stranded, or that the Imperium was hard up enough to overlook their indiscretion in return for something, undying loyalty and a suicidal mission or two no doubt.

 

It would make for an interesting telling, but it could overtake the whole IA if not handled properly.

 

If you can write it well, if you think you can pull it off then give it a try! Can't hurt to give it your best. It doesn't need to be tied to any other part of the IA either, so at worst you only have to redesign one section if it doesn't turn out as you'd like.

[Dizzyeye01]

You do have a point there GHY, if anything I could have a sidebar which I can allude to the dark side of their origin. Question is who would of stumbled across them. The Inquisition seems like an obvious choice however if they were gonna be involved then I don't want them just waving a wand and making it okay. There would need to be a drawback to it and not just a simple one off thing. Another option would be a Mechanicus exploration fleet stumbling on them, only thing I'm not sure of is how they would be able to cover up them being black shields. Any other suggestions?

[Dizzyeye01]

While I'm here, here's something I've been writing up for the Geneseed/Recruitment of the chapter:

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Like many successors’ of the Ultramarines, the [blank] have managed to maintain a pure, strong geneseed even with the distance of their homeworld to the closer Imperial worlds. No physical mutations such as the failure of organs. However, there are a few known physiological oddities that appear amongst the recruits that are noteworthy.

 

To begin, there are a slightly higher percentage of recruits which have shown a more rebellious attitude towards superiors. From what information has been gathered, this quirk is more due not to the process of indoctrinating recruits but more the will of the subjects to retain the identity they previously held. To the credit of the chapter, this same attitude is all but gone by the time a recruit has earned the right to done power armour. Whether the credit is owed to the trainers’ within the chapter itself, the geneseed maturing or a mixture of the two is unknown.

 

Another noteworthy point of interest is the dampening of spirit. Before undertaking the procedures to receive the geneseed, the thoughts of personal glory and rewards gained is rather strong; something that isn’t a surprise considering the process that recruits go through to become astartes. Afterwards, reports suggest that some recruits go through a period of what can only be described as emptiness. While this period is brief, more research is required to find the cause.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

As always, C&C is welcome :)

[Conn Eremon]

My own personal theories when it comes to the possibility of Blackshields continuing to exist in a post-Scouring Imperium kind of falls into two broad conclusions:

 

One, they don't. The Blackshields perish, for as many different reasons as there are Blackshields. 

 

Or two, they do, but there is a vast difference between being your own 2nd Founding Chapter and being a part of a 2nd Founding Chapter, and I'd assume any surviving, forgiven Blackshields would be a part of the latter rather than the former.

 

 

It's difficult for me to buy the idea that a band of Blackshields just become their own Chapter, or have a new Chapter formed around them and genetically descended from them. Sure, exceptions occur everywhere in 40k, but this just seems like one of those supremely unlikely things, like the High Lords re-instituting the Legiones Astartes for a few centuries.

 

What feels more plausible to me is that if there are any Blackshields out there that have proven their worth and their loyalty, then they could be a part of a 2nd Founding Chapter. But only one that would have been formed regardless of the Blackshield.

 

An example would be the Iron Warrior of Pharos, whose name I'm drawing a blank on. Now, his story has been advanced in the novel Pharos, but ignoring that, let's consider the theories that surrounded this figure prior to that book.

 

There were many who thought he could be the founder of the Silver Skulls, because of that Chapter's "alleged" Ultramarine gene-seed, and the similarity of their symbol both to the Iron Warriors' and to that particular Marine's mask. My personal assumption was that no, that would never be the case.

 

More likely, to me, was that if the Sothan garrison was to become the Scythes of the Emperor Chapter, as has been heavily hinted, that this Iron Warrior may have become an honorary member of that Chapter. However, no genetic legacy would have been maintained. The Chapter would be Ultramarines' through and through.

 

That is how I'd imagine any Blackshields continuing in the Imperium, should any do so and outside  the possibility of them playing some other roles, like with the Knights Errant.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to share it with you, do with it as you will. I'm certainly not saying it's "right," but it might help you decide what you want to do with your Blackshields.

[Dizzyeye01]

I see where you're coming from Conn. A possible route that could be used is that there was a group of Blackshields who, as GHY suggested, went on a suicide mission to prove their loyalty and dedication to the Imperium. The survivors (who would be few in number) would then be part of the [blank] and watched by the now chapter master. Even then, due to their history their names wouldn't be remembered and they would become faceless members of the chapter that die. Hmmm... that does sound like an idea I can integrate into the chapter. I'd say that has certainly helped Conn :)

[Dizzyeye01]

Got another update, this time for the Homeworld section. As always C&C is greatly appreciated :)

 

Homeworld

 

 

Due to the loss of data during the Age of Strife, many records about the world [blank] have been lost. However, thanks to the efforts of the Adeptus Mechanicus a basic idea of what happened to the planet was formed. Once a penal world, [blank] had been cut off from the rest of humanity with dire consequences for its people. Soon enough, the guards who had been in control of the planet soon became overwhelmed when their supplies had been cut and the prisoners ran rampart across the planet.

By the time that the training cadre of the [blank] found the world, it had devolved itself into a feral world. After the fall of the guards, gangs had formed and taken over parts of the prison, conducting bloody warfare amongst each other to prove who were the strongest. Over time, the smaller gangs were destroyed by rival gangs or forced to return back to the cells which they were first imprisoned in for fear of destruction. The stronger gangs themselves would begin to lord over the surface and contest each over for control of the surface. None would gain complete control however due to the balance of power: if one gang was starting to endanger the others then they would find themselves picked apart.

Technology itself on the planet had also become rare due to the lack of care given by the prisoners. Scavenging became common place amongst the gangs, some using materials to bolster their own forces while others used them as offerings to more powerful gangs just so that they could survive. Others act as water carriers, taking water from the reservoirs deep in the tunnels and bringing it up to the surface. This brings its own risks, making the gang a target to other rivals wanting to make their own progress or just to simply survive. However, there is a place that no gang would make their home. One where only the [blank] have made their home…

 

[Dizzyeye01]

Apologies for the slight of silence, been working on college stuff. That and the Division may of slightly (By which I mean totally) distracted me

Anyhow, here's at the very least a start on the origins, lemme know what you guys think on this:

With the events of the Horus Heresy still burned into the minds of those who had fought in it, the Legion Astartes were eventually reformed into the chapters we know today. While it is widely agreed that the forming of the [blank] would hold exclusively members of the ‘Unmarked’, a smaller, darker rumour is that some of those assigned to the chapter are believed to be unpopular amongst the former Legion Command along with a less than reputable standard barely in line with what is now known as the Codex Astartes.

Despite having the reputation of outcasts and brutes, Chapter Master [blank] led his chapter to the best of his abilities, taking them to the borders of Ultramar and beyond. While casualties were stustained, the chapter pressed on in its duties, giving its enemies no quarter. For them, they had something to prove: they weren’t meatshields to be thrown to the slaughter. They were still Ultramarines at heart. It was then, after years of grim, brutal fighting that they would find a place to call home.

I'm also gonna start working on making some images for this as well. The writing is obviously the main focus however a little change in what I'm doing is also nice :)

[Olis]

I think maybe you should swap out "Ultramar" for "the Imperium". I think it might sound better.

 

As for these "Unmarked", are you leaning towards them being some sort of autonomous force during the Heresy? Some sort of pseudo-Blackshield force? (If you've elaborated on this before - I apologise for missing it.)

[Dizzyeye01]

I think maybe you should swap out "Ultramar" for "the Imperium". I think it might sound better.

 

As for these "Unmarked", are you leaning towards them being some sort of autonomous force during the Heresy? Some sort of pseudo-Blackshield force? (If you've elaborated on this before - I apologise for missing it.)

I'll be sure to make the change suggested.

 

As for the the force during the Heresy, part of them will have been Ultramarines who decided to ignore orders to regroup with the rest of the Legion and went out to hunt down whatever traitors they could find. The rest of the legionnaires would have regrouped but still end up being in the chapter.

 

So essentially yeah, they would be a pseudo-Blackshield force. I might touch on it on a sidebar and eventually develop it into a IA. The focus right now is after the heresy.

[Olis]

Sounds like they're a convenient vehicle for offloading the outcasts and undesirables from the Legion. I suppose, if the original force had a rep for being disobedient to Guilliman, then maybe it's some sort of reprimand...

[Dizzyeye01]

Yup, that's the idea I'm going ahead with. We already know Guilliman had the "Unmarked" sent away as their own chapters so for me anyway it's reasonable that he would also try to reprimand the loose cannons within the Legion and make sure they don't cause trouble in other chapters that are formed.