+++ Interview with an Unforgiven Grand Master +++ Opus VII

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Hello Boys and Girls!

This is hopefully the start of a long format (borrowed from the Chaos Forum with mod permission) that hopefully gets the Unforgiven community even more closer together.

It consists of an interview of sorts with forum members, so we can get to know what drives them in the hobby and specially what makes them be an Unforgiven.

Notice that Unforgiven is used instead of just Dark Angels so that Sucessor Chapters, DIY or not are not left out because doesn't matter what colors you show, it matters only the tome you use!

This will be a irregularly regular format, meaning you can expect regular updates but not within a specific time frame...

Without further delay, here's the first interview, made with Grand Master Belial, long time member of this community, mentor of the project Brotherhood of Angels.

1.) How have you become an Unforgiven Grand Master?

I was introduced to Games Workshop back in 1993 while I was living in Melbourne, Australia. My Friend had a copy of Space Hulk and we enjoyed playing the game for hours. He also showed me copies of White Dwarf and I was always drawn to the dark green armor of the Dark Angels even though he was pulled to the Space Wolves. What cemented my loyalty to the Unforgiven was an article in the White Dwarf about the new Deathwing Terminators that came out just prior to the release of the 2nd Edition. In it contained most of the back story of the Fallen and the meaning behind the broken sword of the Deathwing. I was actually going through Communion for my church at the same time and I built a link between the broken sword and the sinful nature of humans. With that link in place, the Dark Angels have become an inexorable part of my life. I even have the Deathwing logo tattooed on my army and when people ask I give them the mixed answer. It is a reminder for me to be a better person until the sword is reforged.

2.) When did you start to play an Unforgiven Chapter?

While I started in 1993 with reading the background of all of the armies around back then, I didn't start to collect an army when I went off University in 1996. Up until that time, I had worked on model airplanes and starships. Moving into a college dorm room did not leave a lot of space for a hobby and painting small miniatures fit easily on a corner of the desk. The 2nd Edition boxed set came out around that time and that became my starter force. All of the Space Marines were painted up Dark Angels and I played a game at my local game store right off campus. I got trampled by the store owner. After the game, he would discuss tactics and point to how I could improve. Eventually I was able to pull off a draw but I never did table him. That friendliness and willing to help me improve did a lot to keep me in the game.

3.) Which is your favorite "Wing"? Deathwing, Ravenwing, Greenwing, Mixed wing?

I always liked Greenwing with only a squad of Deathwing to support them. This is in keeping with the background of the Angels of Vengeance campaign that came out during 2nd Edition and introduced me to then Master of the 3rd - Belial. (My avatar is an old scan of that booklet.) I didn't have any bikes and just the old metal Land Speeder Tornado to represent the Ravenwing and it was always an easy target by itself so it was quickly left behind.

4.) What is your play style?

I don't play anymore since I have a massive problem keeping the rules straight with the different editions. I understand what Jarvis Johnson meant at Games Day Baltimore 2002 when he said he doesn't play outside the Studio because he couldn't keep the rules straight in his head. With all of the changes to the Intractable rule, to keep it Unforgiven, I keep thinking I need to roll to see if my Veterans stay put for the turn. (The rule that made the DA a static gun line army for the longest time.)

5.) What is your most treasured memory from your hobby career involving the Unforgiven?

I am going to have to spend some time in Cell 42 for this one. I had moved to Seattle in 2003 and I had to liquidate some models because of the moving costs. One army that got sold was my starter Dark Angels Army. I kept the characters and one or two conversions. With the release of 4th or 5th Edition, I was getting the bug to get back into the hobby and then the Eye of Terror Campaign book came out. In it was the rules for the 13th Company of Space Wolves. But what got my wheels turning was the models with mix and match armor with Chaos bits. For the longest time, the Fallen Dark Angels were depicted in that they fell all across the spectrum in terms of their loyalty. Some where just duped to the wrong side and were ashamed and others gave themselves over wholly to Chaos. In that mix was Cypher and the fluff that he pulled the Fallen out of hiding to join him. This gave me an idea for a new army. A Fallen Dark Angels army that was versatile enough that it could use nearly every Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine Codex. I also had Imperial Guard units painted so the Lost and the Damned from the Eye of Terror was also a possibility. Now I had an army that was easy to paint and could play in lots of different styles, making it portable when I had to move again.

A close second was the Fall of Medusa campaign. It brought me back to the green side of the Dark Angels but with a flair. I loved all of the successors and it was a shame for the longest time that no one played them. When Shadow Guard hosted a painting competition to go alongside with the global campaign, I had to join in. I got a box of the then new plastic Terminators and Terminator Captain and painted them up as the promoted Belial and a representative from each of then three Successors. Those minis still bear the campaign badge of Medusa Five that Shadow Guard came up with for the competition.

6.) Do you collect and play any other armies even though it's heresy?

I have had a total of 5 armies. The Starter Dark Angels, Craftworld Eldar (Saim-Hann), Imperial Guard (Mixed Regiment - the 45th Imperial Regiment I did for the Liber Challenge), Fallen Dark Angels and finally the Combined Unforgiven force.

7.) Which is your favorite Unforgiven character? And favorite Villain?

Naaman has been growing to become my new favorite hero. He seemed to get a decent treatment in the Space Marine Battles book and encouraged me to start writing up the still incomplete Chronicles of Naaman. Cypher is still the reigning champ in terms of villain because he also acts like an Anti-Hero. One can never really know which side he is on. The treatment he got in the Eye of Terror and then more recently in his Dataslate have only highlighted that fact.

8.) Which is your favorite Black Library publication involving Unforgiven? And non-Unforgiven?

It has to be the original Deathwing story. The only time I ever got in trouble on the B&C and was warned because I posted the original story (sorry for that Chaplain Lucifer). Thankfully, it would later be published in the Black Library book Deathwing and I learned the error of my ways. As for non-Unforgiven, I would have to go with Dan Abnett's Gaunt's Ghosts series. He gave us so many words and phrases that have become an essential part of the 40k background. He also reminded us that in the darkness of the 41st Millennium there is only war and in war we lose good people.

9.) Is there any Forgeworld favorite that you want or already have?

I really wish there was a Forgeworld kit for Brother Bish's Land Raider Ares that was a part of the first Apocalypse book. But I have always liked the Land Speeder Tempest and wondered why it is not a part of the Ravenwing even in a small role. I always thought it would make a good Squadron leader with two other landspeeders and keeping the marine count to five. (As I recall, this was to maintain the balance of 100 marines in the company and how they still acted like a battle company even though every single marine was mounted.)

10.) Any advice for your fellow Unforgiven Brothers?

Always remember to have fun in this hobby and this universe. The Dark Angels have a power in that there is still mystery within and that mystery holds power. We don't always need to have everything explained. The most recent ramification of this was the recent official picture of the Rock. Just reading through the various replies in the thread at the perceptions of the Rock shows how it was different to every person. The image kind of took away part of the mystery and some of the power that players had of the Rock.

Don't be afraid to get creative and diverge from the norm. When I hosted the first Brotherhood of the Angels competition, I intentionally made a chapter that was bright in contrast to the typical dark brooding look. This chapter came to be known as the Saints of the Angels and I would not use black anywhere on the model. I would do this again with another chapter the Questing Brothers and their convict orange paint scheme. I will always sing the praises of Brother Arkley and his RED Unforgiven (and here). It continues to be an inspiration to me to see something that others thought impossible done to such a masterful degree.

Be supportive and lead by example. Again, this is supposed to be fun for everyone and we should always try to make it fun and enjoyable for all sides. This has gotten a little harder with the stronger emphasis on tournaments then on friendly games, but we have typically be on the wrong end of the nerf stick. Even though our armies in past Codices were weak, it did not stop us from playing them and finding ways to make them competitive.

It is actually something to say about the Unforgiven community here on the B&C in that we typically have an over abundance of Moderati in our little subforum and many of them have continued in their duties for many years. Some have even become Moderati of other subforums and our own Captain Semper has been at the lead of the last several ETL competitions and they have been so popular that the older Librarium Painting Challenge has been retired. Even the Shadow Guard, who recruited me to the B&C back in 2003 shortly after the fall of Portent continues to be a presence in these hallowed halls. We are a group who is every bit as Intractable as the Unforgiven and just as loyal. I could not ask for a better group of people to share my thoughts and ideas.

And that's it, the first interview with a notable Unforgiven... I hope you enjoyed, stay tuned for more!

[CarbonBased]

Great idea, and great interview!

 

I especially enjoyed "Don't be afraid to get creative and diverge from the norm. When I hosted the first Brotherhood of the Angels competition, I intentionally made a chapter that was bright in contrast to the typical dark brooding look. This chapter came to be known as the Saints of the Angels and I would not use black anywhere on the model. I would do this again with another chapter the Questing Brothers and their convict orange paint scheme. I will always sing the praises of Brother Arkley and his RED Unforgiven (and here). It continues to be an inspiration to me to see something that others thought impossible done to such a masterful degree." since my Unforgiven are a bit unconventionally painted.

[Grand Master Belial]

Perhaps we'll see the Dawnbringers in the Brotherhood of the Angels 2016? The WIP thread has some very nicely done models and lots of positive remarks on said unconventional paint scheme. :tu: ;) 

[Soldier of Dorn]

<pokes head into DA subforum>

 

Hey, this looks familiar... :D

 

Glad to see that the format is spreading to other factions besides Chaos! Even though I don't play DA anymore (I did very briefly when I first started in the hobby), I'll be following this topic closely, since one of my warbands is led by a Fallen Angel and I'm still rather fond of the First. Can't wait to see more!

 

<ducks out of DA subforum before the Unforgiven can capture the foul Fallen>

[twopounder]

Wow, that brings back a lot of memories! I really miss Naaman (Yes, I actually used him during campaigns to some success) . Great info though. I enjoyed the read :)

[Conn Eremon]

Nice to see this spread, it's a cool idea. In fact, it's been on my own list of ideas to steal honor through imitation.

 

If you wouldn't mind though, a pure white font doesn't show up well for mobile users. The default font changes to black on the mobile skin, but any change from that shows as is, making it a white font on a white background.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Next one up is Master Avoghai!

1.) How have you become an Unforgiven Grand Master?
I'm not sure to get what you mean but if you want to know how I ended up with a first unforgiven codex well, I've started with WHFB and the bretonnian vs Lizardmen boxset with my brother. One year later we decided to start the 40k side of the hobby and the DA codex (v3) was just released. I was first tempted to create my first chapter but then I discovered all the mystery and secrecy of the DA and then I was in.

2.) When did you start to play an Unforgiven Chapter?
This history is as old as the v3 codex hence 18 years this summer...

3.) Which is your favorite "Wing"? Deathwing, Ravenwing, Greenwing, Mixed wing?
I play all with equal pleasure, last week end I've played 2 games : one full RW, one DW with a little RW and next Sunday I'll surely play greenwing. That's one of the reason I love DA : you have 3 armies in one with all the shades of mix you can imagine.

4.) What is your play style?
I'm rather defensive. I always give protective wargear to my characters and I always jink even if it's not the best thing to do. Therefore, I'm more reactive than pro active during the game.

5.) What is your most treasured memory from your hobby career involving the Unforgiven?
Surely the 10000 vs 10000 pts battle ar GD Paris 2010.
It was the biggest game I've organized, my best friend brought an impressive greenskin army but most important : a scratchbuilt warlord and a mega gargant

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/Masteravoghai/GD%20Paris%202011/IMG-20110522-00122.jpg

This event took place after 2-3 years real life vs hobby issues that nearly convinced me to give up. Hence managing to paint 6000pts of DA between November and April and seeing the result and people enjoying participating such event gave me the will to go on for decades! (And keep in mind that we manage to end up the day without a single model stolen or broken!!!)

6.) Do you collect and play any other armies even though it's heresy?
Well though my club teamates qualify me as a DA monomaniac, I must confess that I own a Thousand Sons army with also Tzeentch deamons. But since the CSM codex looks like been given up by GW, I've pushed them aside.

I've started an admech army recently though. I've chosen Ryza for obvious plasma reasons...

7.) Which is your favorite Unforgiven character? And favorite Villain?
I actually don't really have favourite unforgiven characters for 2 reasons.
1st I've yet to read the HH novels (I'm an greedy reader and wanted to start the series once gaunts ghosts series is over because I need to be immersed in one serie at once. So I don't know all the pre heresy characters.
2nd because I think that GW didn't dig enough to develop the unforgiven characters post heresy. I would like to know more than the classic triad Azy/Ezy/Asmo. Particularly I'd like to see more successors characters...

As a villain, I really appreciate how GW turned the Cypher history in the last dataslate. This "fallen beacon" aspect and the little step-stone they put with the signification of the Cypher title on Caliban is really interesting.

8.) Which is your favorite Black Library publication involving Unforgiven? And non-Unforgiven?
I think the BL favourite will be in the HH novels as I find Gave's Trilogy a little meh. I think I'm not fond of his style and even the base of the story.

As for non unforgiven I really adore Gaunt's ghosts and pray every day for an tv series adaptation one book = one season... Take that games of thrones

9.) Is there any Forgeworld favorite that you want or already have?
The thunderhawk : that's the icing of the cake of my collection. I already have a full battle company, 2/3 of the RW and 75 termis...I only miss a thunderhawk... Or 2.

10.) Any advice for your fellow Unforgiven Brothers?
I see lots of critics about the formation concept that GW introduced in v7.
I'd like to say : open your mind. For ex, use the 10th company task force fron codex SM to play Telion count as Naaman and DA scouts on bikes or LS. Use the 1st company support to play a count as deathwatch force with infiltrated DA. Try the deathwing with RW attack squadrons with its 12" teleport homer... Possibility are huge to create your own unforgiven army. Use them.

Thank you Master Avoghai, for answering the questions and being a long time member of BnC DA forum!

[Brother dean]

Waits for more...  Subscribed...

[Grand Master Belial]

Makes me wonder who will be next? Isiah? The Shadow Guard? Captain Semper? Chaplain Lucifer himself?

[Brother dean]

I would guess he has a few to choose from...

[Chaplain Lucifer]

The plan is to focus on Frater and Cedo Mods that are around before going to active mods, but the plan involves every regular to be interviewed at some point in time...

[FerociousBeast]

Nice idea, and very cool Warlord titan, Avoghai! Very impressive.

[SvenONE]

Very enjoyable! Another great reason to frequent these forums!

[Chaplain Lucifer]

The Third Unforgiven GrandMaster is Brother Dean!

Here are his insights:

 

1.) How have you become an Unforgiven Grand Master?

Well when I fell in love with Titans at a massive game exhibition at a mall in March 92, I discovered Epic and WD142 (whatever that month was…) It took time to gather funds and interest but a buddy and I went together on a $250 order of Space Marine (Epic) 2nd Ed. And we both wanted Marines and we both had unseemly interests in Terminators (and we both ended up with an Eldar army too) and we decided that he would do Wolves and I would do DA for the Lion and Wolf story that was touched on in the “Forces of the Imperium” book

 

2.) When did you start to play an Unforgiven Chapter?

I started a true 40k army a few years later about the time Sisters of Battle came out… So right at the end of 40k 2nd Ed. I cannot give you a year… In any case 3rd ed exploded like a macro cannon (now these are multi part Marines!) shell and the rest is really history.

 

3.) Which is your favorite "Wing"? Deathwing, Ravenwing, Greenwing, Mixed wing?

Deathwing. It was the rules for Deathwing in “Forces of the Imperium” (see above) that really swayed me to Dark Angels in the first place… It took 15 years (2007) for me to get around to start painting (I had at that point purchased 25 Termies and painted 5..) a proper 40k force of Deathwing but it is always my “I only brought a 1500 list.. Deathwing stats are easy to remember and two squads will bring me to 2k, I’ll take those” fallback.

 

4.) What is your play style?

Well I used to castle with Greenwing and have tried Deep striking Deathwing but I think March10k’s three raider list is the way to go, and my most recent struggle is keeping RW alive enough to be useful.

 

5.) What is your most treasured memory from your hobby career involving the Unforgiven?

12” Deep strike Scatter vs nids not once but twice in the same game both times leaving just enough room between the squad and one of two Carnifex… Killed them both. Also making tons of 5+ saves vs Power klaws and tau plasma.

 

6.) Do you collect and play any other armies even though it's heresy?

Dark Angels – 12,000+, divided unequally among all three wings and a squad here and there of other unforgiven chapters. Have an old pict. I know I've added a squad or two since this was taken.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w20/fred40k2002/Dark%20Angels/DSCN9871.jpg
Metal Cadian 509th Mechanized 4,000+ when I got tired of losing with the 3rd ed DA pamphlet.
Thousand sons (sold long ago and repurchased when the DV set came out) 2k?
Eldar are 7 years old 2,000+.
Freebootas are still more primer than finished. Maybe 2k..
All of my xenos and heretic inspired armies stem from tournys where there were half Loyal space marines, One quarter flavor of the month and the other quarter were chaos and xenos… “We need more OpForces around here.”

 

7.) Which is your favorite Unforgiven character? And favorite Villain?
My favorite Character; Corswain, you have to respect a guy who can go toe to toe with a primarch and not be totally crushed… Also he is mentioned as being among the top three swordmasters at the time of the Heresy. (Lucius was after)
Villan; Asmodai,He does not fit the chapter ideal of tactical preparedness and adaptability at all and is instead a product of the secret.
Gav Thorpe for trying to “Humanize” the Transhumans to make them more relatable and instead having them make errors in judgement that no true son of the Lion would contemplate, (excepting Asmodai and his single mindedness. Gav has that down to a T and has incorrectly transferred that to the chapter as a whole.)

 

8.) Which is your favorite Black Library publication involving Unforgiven? And non-Unforgiven?
Deathwing, the short the compilation is named for. It just deals with one uninitiated assault Sargeant and his squad who follows an Interrogator into a fallen stronghold, we see through his uninformed eyes the depravity and desicration done therein and when the Interrogator falls and entrusts the mission back to him he mans up and gets it done. When extraction comes in the form of a squad of Deathwing in a Thunderhawk, the DW Sargent askes “What happened” and our protagonist answers simply..”I am Deathwing” This epitomizes the ethos of the Dark Angels; We had a plan, The plan went to (not on the floor please) We made a new plan, We got it done, Now we will pay the price.

Non Unforgiven would be just about anything by Abnett. Gaunts Ghosts, Esienhorn/Ravenor/Esienhorn vs Ravenor. Also Dune, Starship Troopers.

 

9.) Is there any Forgeworld favorite that you want or already have?

Have: Demios Pattern Predator Executioner 3 blast, doesn’t get hot. The Conversion beamer is harder to use but it fits in with our “Ancient Tech” fluff well.
I also want a Deredeo Autocannon varient, Plasma fits the fluff but that fluff is contrived to sell models in 2nd ed. and the AC version is cooler looking.

 

10.) Any advice for your fellow Unforgiven Brothers?

Keep the faith, Everything is cyclical. Most armies get the nerf bat in turn then get a buff, Except Wolves, Wolves are always buffed…
Have a 2nd army that you like for when you get tired of losing with a nerfed army. Also I'd like to echo Master Avoghai, using formations is not a limitation. Going Unbound will also answer any and all Deathwing or Ravenwing force org chart limitations. If your local meta doesn't allow unbound then find another meta or use a RWAS for DWRF deep strikes.

 

 

 

I hope you liked Brother Dean's replies and his impressive 12000 pts of DA! That's commitment!

[Grand Master Belial]

I wonder if the old Ian Watson Space Marine novel will pop up as a favorite BL publication even though it predates BL by several years.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

This week, the interview features march10K. Let's see what he has to say....

1.) How have you become an Unforgiven Grand Master?

Well, in1997, I was down at the local shop, playing Magic, which I had picked up in Germany a few years earlier (anyone need an Ice Age Jester's Mask in German?), when I noticed some people playing Warhammer on a nearby table. I was instantly attracted to the idea that you could paint your own models and then game with them. So I bought the boxed set and worked on building a Bretonian army. Oh, the fun I had with a lance of grail knights hammering foes as the arrowhead of peasant bowmen arced arrows over their heads! That lasted a few years. I started collecting and painting some cadians at the time, but I only gamed with my Bretonians. In 2001, I moved halfway across the country, landing in a place where, to my dismay, nobody played fantasy, and 40k was all the rage (little did I know at that time that that was the norm). So I switched to playing 40k, I think it was mere months after the drop of 3rd edition. In those days, IG was a pretty terrible army, so I branched into marines pretty quickly.

2.) When did you start to play an Unforgiven Chapter?

In 2001, realizing that playing IG was going to be as comfortable as giving a bobcat a suppository in a phone booth, I added a dark angels army. In those days, I was attracted to the fluff (brooding warrior monks with a plains indian influence on an endless quest to redeem their honor by hunting apostate brothers), but also the really buff tactical squads with more plasma than you could shake a stick at. I think everyone else was running six man squads with lascannon, plasma cannon, and rhino, or something like that. I fielded three ten man tactical squads with plasma cannon (Oh yeah! No other chapter could have those, so it was cool AND effective), plasma gun, and stubborn veteran sergeant. My thought was that they could stand and shoot all game long and take a brutal amount of punishment without giving an inch. Effectively, you could kill 7/10 models in each squad and not cut into their firepower and not break them. It usually worked out that way, too...glory days of Koth Ridge style firepower defense...

3.) Which is your favorite "Wing"? Deathwing, Ravenwing, Greenwing, Mixed wing?

That's hard. is "not Ravenwing" an acceptable answer? I have a hard time choosing between the 5th company and the Deathwing. I really, really like the stand and shoot green wall, but...but...deathwing! From the end of 3rd edition until the present codex, greenwing was pretty much unplayable, so I've actually played the most with Deathwing-based lists. Sometimes mechanized Deathwing, sometimes black/white, and one list was so nasty that I had to retire it once I got the kinks worked out. It lost a lot until I figured out the proper ratios between its three constituent elements, but after that, it went something like 27-2-1 before I stopped playing it. That list had a mix of termies, bikes, and dreddies. In any given game, I expected one component to die uselessly, one to do okay, and one to singlehandedly crush the enemy list. The strengths and weaknesses of bikes, terminators, and walkers were just so radically different that it was hard for an opposing list to be good at killing all three, and rare for an opposing list to struggle against all three. So I've used all three over the years, but Ravenwing has never really been the star for me. At the moment, although I like the decurion, I'm mostly playing black/white with a 12" telehomer bubble and the ability to drop termies one unit at a time any time between turns 2-4. That's just too cool not to do it.

4.) What is your play style?

My playstyle with DA is actually a bit of an outlier. Most of my armies are very firepower-centric and not exeptionally mobile. In contrast, my DA playstyle focuses on supporting and setting up a deathwing charge. It's far more offensive, melee-focused, offensive, and agressive. It leaves little room for error, but that is part of the attraction. Correctly identify the linchpin unit of the enemy strategy, or at least that unit which, left unscathed, is most likely to win the game for the enemy, and crush it with thunderhammers or maces of absolution, then watch the enemy fall apart. Guess wrong, or suffer some mishap early (self-immobilizing on terrain is my usual critical point of failure), and it's going to be very ugly for me. I really love the challenge of a hyper-elite list that takes 70% casualties in a win and gets tabled by turn 4 in a loss. Victory or death, and carnage everywhere!

5.) What is your most treasured memory from your hobby career involving the Unforgiven?

Ah...that would be an anecdote from third edition, over ten years ago, but it's stood the test of time. This was when Tau were new, fire warriors were still feared enough that people packed extra heavy bolters as insurance, and the internet list enforcement commissars had not yet banned lists with more than 5 fire warriors, crisis suits other than fireknife, any heavy support other than nine broadsides, and so on. Railheads were all the rage, and I was facing two of them. Well, that's when Brother Abednigo became Venerable Brother Abednigo. We were the only chapter with access to plasma cannons on our dreadnoughts at the time...so naturally, that's what he carried. His feat was to bring down two railheads with his plasma cannon on consecutive turns. Back then, you did have to roll to hit, then he needed a 6 to glance and another 6 to destroy. So the chance of doing it once was 2/3*1/6*1/6, or 1/54. Doing it twice on consecutive shots was astronomically improbable at 1/2916. If there had been a better target available (there was not. True line of sight was not yet in effect, so jump-shoot-jump was incredibly nasty), I would not have attempted it even once, since the chance of success was less than 2% for each shot (granted, each shot had an 11% chance of at least a "shaken" result)

6.) Do you collect and play any other armies even though it's heresy?

I do...only one is heretical. I play IG, although they're actually the PDF of an unforgiven recruiting world, so no heresy there. My next army, the Order of the Mourning Rose, is a small order of sororitas guarding a shrine on that world. Who could accuse the brides of the emperor of heresy? I must admit to my everlasting shame that I also own a tau army. Off to room 42 I go...

7.) Which is your favorite Unforgiven character? And favorite Villain?

Ah...my answer to both is the same: Astelan. Though one of the Fallen, he perfectly exemplifies both sides of the schism.

8.) Which is your favorite Black Library publication involving Unforgiven? And non-Unforgiven?

Angels of Darkness without a doubt. For non-unforgiven fiction it's a toss-up...Fifteen Hours and the HH one about the Luna Wolves. The former is just a great view of the lives of common guardsmen, and the latter, well, Loken is my favorite non-DA character.

9.) Is there any Forgeworld favorite that you want or already have?

Hmmm...I can't think of a DA-specific model that FW should produce. My favorite FW model that I already have is my Avenger Strike Fighter, but that's AS/IG, not DA. I did want a DA thunderhawk for, well, years. Unfortunately, they make no sense at all now because a storm eagle does the same thing cheaper. Ok, the thought of a Thawk flying onto the tabletop, dropping three titanhammer squads at the feet of one titan, and then peppering the rear armor of another titan with turbolaser and missile fire...it's attractive, and a Steagle can't do that. But a Steagle can carry a ten man terminator squad and has an assault ramp, so it really does do the Thawk thing for less money and fewer points. Yes, I have one

10.) Any advice for your fellow Unforgiven Brothers?

Repent. And bear in mind that it has ever been so that GW playtests new stuff by granting it to the First Legion, then, when the concept is proven, gives it to everyone else, sometimes stripping it from us. Examples include plasma cannons on dreads and in tac squads, pure termie armies, and mortis dreadnoughts. Don't get mad, get even. The way to avenge the honor of the chapter is to win in spite of it all. Especially when they playtest the Ultramarine codex through the DA codex, fix it the flaws when releasing C:UM, and then fail to bring DA in on the fix. Thankfully, that's not the case with the current generation of codexes, but it worked that way for a decade, and the present reprieve may be short-lived. Embrace GW's prejudice and make it your strongest weapon by allowing it to spur you onward to new glories!

Thanks for your time and answers, march10k!

[Guest]

Really liking this :)

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Thanks! I hope this inspires people to get the best out of the hobby... andto participate here in the DA forum with their favorite parts of the hobby, be it painting, modelling, gaming, literature...

[Chaplain Lucifer]

This week the "man on the chair" is Spaced Hulk!

 

1.) How have you become an Unforgiven Grand Master?

My hobby career began in the summer of 1996, when my best mate persuaded me to go halves on the Necromunda boxed game. I very quickly became addicted to both the game and the 40k universe, and started buying as many White Dwarfs and Citadel Journals as I could afford back then. At the time, White Dwarf covered a wide variety of different GW games (Warhammer, 40k, Epic, Necromunda, Space Hulk, Warhammer Quest. How times have changed!), but it was the articles on the then newly released Codex: Angels of Death which really caught my imagination. There was one particular Bat Rep which had Gav Thorpe (who was one of the WD writers at the time) commanding a Dark Angels army against an Ork Cult of Speed. I loved  the character models with their distinctive robes (Gav used Azrael and Brother Bethor for the report), and the different colour schemes of the DA army (I can remember thinking, why are only the Deathwing in white armour?). The whole army just seemed so cool and menacing, and I found the mixture of science fiction and archaic, medieval imagery really fascinating. I bought myself Codex: Angels of Death, and I've been hooked ever since.

2.) When did you start to play an Unforgiven Chapter?

I started collecting DA models pretty much straight away, but Necromunda remained the focus of my gaming for quite a while. Eventually I started playing 40k proper, both with friends and at the local GW, but I've never taken part in tournaments or competitive gaming. Possibly because my dice rolling in notoriously bad, but also because it's just never really been that important to me. My interest has always been most focused on the background of the game, and collecting the models to represent it. These days, like Grand Master Belial, I have to admit that I don't really get to play at all. However, I'd actually say that my interest (or addiction as my wife rightly calls it) in both 40K and the Unforgiven is as high as ever. My current army, a DA Successor Chapter called the Sword Bearers, are actually my favourite army I've ever collected.

That's not to say that I don't pay attention to the current rules. Even now, I always try to make sure that whatever models I build can be legally fielded, or can at least count as something from the codex. Simply because you never know.  But I don't consider things like cost effectiveness or mathhammer. If, or hopefully when I get to play again, I'll either win or lose, and it won't matter to me either away, as long as my opponent and I both have fun and the battle feels like we're telling or re-enacting a story.

3.) Which is your favorite "Wing"? Deathwing, Ravenwing, Greenwing, Mixed wing?

Definately Greenwing, both from a modelling point of view and in terms of having as many boots on the ground as possible, and dice to roll. However, I am also very fond of my Chapter's RW equivalent, which are called the Revenants.

4.) What is your play style?

Despite the fact that the Dark Angels have often been labelled as a shooting army, I've actually always favoured close combat. Since 2nd Edition, assault squads have been my favourite type of space marine unit. Perhaps it's the dichotomy which is inherent to 40k (eg: a sci-fi universe where the most advanced human warriors are as likely to be armed with a sword as a gun) which I actually find most appealing about the the setting. I certainly consider some of the most interesting aspects about the Dark Angels to be things like the monk-ish robes, the knightly imagery and emphasis on swordsmanship, the elements of Arthurian mythology in their background etc.

To get back to the question (sorry, I do have a propensity to ramble), I'd say that my play style is aggressive, rather than defensive.

5.) What is your most treasured memory from your hobby career involving the Unforgiven?

If I had to choose one thing that I'm most proud of, it's creating my own Unforgiven Successor Chapter. The Sword Bearers weren't the first time I attempted this, but they're certainly my favourite and have become the most complete, both in terms of finished models and developing their back story. The feedback and encouragement I've received from the forum has been amazing, and is something I appreciate immensely.

To anybody considering developing their own Chapter, my advice is go for it. The freedom of expression and creativity it provides you is, in my opinion, unparallelled within the hobby.

6.) Do you collect and play any other armies even though it's heresy?

Like a lot of players, I've suffered from hobby related ADHD in the past. Over the years I've collected, or at least started to collect a variety of other Imperial armies. Blood Angels,  Space Wolves, Sisters of Battle, Imperial Guard, Black Templars, 13th Company, and most recently a couple of attempts at an Executioners army (I really like their background in Forgeworlds Badab IA books).

Some of those armies have been quite large (for example, somewhere I've still got pretty much all the metal Second Edition Space Marine models and characters), whilst others consisted of a single squad (like the Templars I built from the first box of Third Edition Tactical marines I bought).

As you can tell, I tend to like Space Marine armies. They're pretty much the defining feature of 40K, so it's probably not that unusual. I also tend to like at least one aspect about pretty much every Chapter, whether it be the colour scheme, the models or a particular element of their background. However, the one thing they've all got in common is that sooner or later, I eventually lose interest in them.

The only army which I keep coming back to, time and time again, is the Dark Angels. I find the imagery, background and models for the Unforgiven to be consistently inspiring. To put it bluntly, I just don't get bored of them. I'm currently on my third, and largest, Unforgiven army, and I doubt I'll be stopping any time soon.

At some point, like a lot of compulsive Marine players, I'll probably start a HH army.

It will probably also be the First Legion.

(Incidentally, there is one distinct advantage to both severe hobby ADHD and compulsive model purchasing. You get a really well stocked bits box.)

7.) Which is your favorite Unforgiven character? And favorite Villain?

Ezekial has long been my favourite, both in terms of his model and his background. I love all of Jes Goodwin's original DA character models, but I consider Ezekial to easily be the best of them. He combines all the elements which I feel embody the Unforgiven: the two handed force sword, the monk like robes covering the armour, the keys, the Book of Salvation. He's the perfect fusion of Knight and Cenobite, the two character types that to me epitomize the Dark Angels.

I also really like his background in Codex: Angels of Death, which not only describes his key role amongst the Inner Circle, but also records his exploits at the battle of the Sularian Gate. This to me is actually really important, as it not only illustrates the  importance of the Hunt for the Fallen, but also reinforces the fact that the Dark Angels are still Space Marines, and are therefore still highly valued defenders of the Imperium. A lot of the current fluff for the DA seems to concentrate on them leaving battles at the slightest hint of news about the Fallen, which whilst occasionally true, surely can't be that much of a regular occurrence. Other elements of Ezekial's story, like losing his eye but continuing to fight to slay the Ork Warlord, and then retaining the original crude bionic in memory of his slain brothers, represent some of the Dark Angel's other innate characteristics, such as their stubbornness,  determination and resilience, and also their sense of honour, loyalty and duty. These are traits which often seem to be overlooked, or at least overshadowed, by their obsessive hunt for the Fallen Angels.

Favourite villain? It's got to be Luther really, hasn't it? He's the architect of the Unforgiven, essentially their creator. I've always loved the fact that the Dark Angels act as a sort of a microcosm of the Heresy as a whole, and Luther is obviously the First Legion's version of Horus. Without Luther, the Dark Angels (and indeed the Imperium itself) would look vastly different. For example, if the Lion and his largely intact legion had survived beyond the Scouring, would he have agreed to Guilliman's Second Founding? Personally, I've got my doubts, which means the Imperial Fists might not have split either, which means you might potentially still have extremely large, very powerful Space Marine Legions running around the galaxy, crushing whatever poor xenos or heretic that gets in their way. Or alternatively, another Civil War as the loyal legions tear each other apart trying to prove their brand of loyalty is the best. Either way, if Luther hadn't turned his armour green with envy (metaphorically speaking), the Unforgiven as we know them wouldn't exist.

8.) Which is your favorite Black Library publication involving Unforgiven? And non- Unforgiven?

Savage Weapons, by ADB. Why? Because it's a short, very tightly written story that manages to undo all the negative aspects of both the First Legion's early HH appearances and the most recent 40k fiction. I'm not going to bash any other authors so I'll concentrate on a couple of the things which makes Savage Weapons so good. Apart from the superb characterization and action which are ADB's hallmarks, the story does an excellent job of depicting the Dark Angels as an ancient, martial brotherhood. Loyal, honourable, intelligent, highly skilled knights with their own organisation and proud traditions. But perhaps more importantly than that, it hints at the darkness and the doubts which lie at the heart of their Order. The story starts with Corswain (whom I agree with Brother Dean is one of the best new DA characters) dreaming about his encounter with a great beast of Caliban, a beast which although Corswain was obviously able to slay in reality, in his dream it always overwhelms him. Now although all story telling is subjective, what I personally read from this is a pervading sense of melancholy and obsession with the past, which makes even the Legion's greatest champions doubt themselves. These are traits which are obviously closely associated with the Dark Angels of the 41st Millennium, so to see them in the Heresy Era (even before the destruction of Caliban) is a really cool and effective piece of foreshadowing. I've always thought that the best heroes are always flawed, and for the Dark Angels, their flaws have always been psychological rather than physical.

Speaking of Caliban, the descriptions of the Legion's haunted, deadly home-world in Savage Weapons are absolutely perfect, and read exactly as I imagined when I first read Codex: Angels of Death so many years ago.

I also really like that the story openly acknowledges the doubts which have been cast on the Lion's loyalty in more recent 40k fiction, and then completely dispels them. At the end of the story, Corswain dreams again, and this time vanquishes the beast as he did in reality. You can interpret this as a reaction to the events of the story (where Corswain fights a Primarch and somehow manages to survive, although barely) but I think it also comments on this idea of loyalty being tested, and not found wanting.  The beast in the dream represents the possibility of the Lion turning traitor, and it's death represents that possibility being disproved once and for all.

I'm not going to over analyse the story any more than that, so I'll just say that if you haven't read it, read it. It's a perfect piece of Dark Angels fiction.

Non-Unforgiven is a bit harder, as there are plenty of possible candidates. The Night Lords trilogy, First Heretic and Betrayer (all by ADB) are strong candidates, as are Horus Rising, Legion and Know No Fear (by Dan Abnett). The main thing they have in common is that they take Legions which I've never really been that interested in and make them interesting.

9.) Is there any Forgeworld favorite that you want or already have?

I'm a big fan of all the various Space Marine armour marks, so Forgeworld opens up a whole new dimension to kitbashing and posing models. In terms of big kits I'd quite like a Fire Raptor, but I'm not sure I'm competent or patient enough to attempt the assembly. I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with forgeworld resin kits as it is, and the bigger vehicles have a reputation for being pretty challenging.

10.) Any advice for your fellow Unforgiven Brothers?

Apart from the obvious ones (Have fun, enjoy the hobby in whatever way it appeals to you, don't dread-sock your opponent out of frustration when you fail that critical dice roll), I'd like to advise players (particularly new ones) about taking too much notice of current Internet 40k dogma. If you read the forums widely as I do (not just the B&C, all of them), you can be subjected to a near constant barrage of critical commentary about the state of the game, which armies are top of the Meta, etc etc. There seems to be a particular breed of forum user that consider themselves to be (for want of a better term) 'professional 40k players'. I'm not criticizing those players for this, as that's simply how they enjoy the hobby. But I do find it really sad to read a new player asking for help/advice on their first army list, and being told to change it to yet another version of the most current Net-List. So my advice is simply to think for yourself, and don't be afraid to try things out and decide what works best for you. It's your hobby. It's your time and money and energy, so make sure it's you who ultimately decides how you spend them.

I've written a lot, so my thanks to anyone who reads all my rambling. And cheers to Chaplain Lucifer for asking me to share my thoughts and opinions.

 

Thank you Spaced Hulk, for your words!

[Chaplain Lucifer]

This week we have Solrac in the chair!

 

1.) How have you become an Unforgiven Grand Master?
I stumbled into the hobby unknowingly with the very first Space Hulk on PC. A pretty scary game for a 10 year old to play especially when the genestealers come out of nowhere and hug your face! Since making a dive into the hobby I have always loved the Dark Angels lore and find that even if my attention wanders for a little bit I always come back to them.

 

2.) When did you start to play an Unforgiven Chapter?
I was introduced to the tabletop game by my friends in High School. To start with we didn't even have rulebook and we all just played with a couple of figures each from my friends Blood Angel collection. After a little while we all wanted our own so we decided for each of us to choose a colour from the paint box and I chose Dark Angels Green. Never looked back. As our collections grew we finally bought a rulebook and just started playing. In our last year of school (Year 12 in Australia)we would all go to one of friend's that had a table tennis table and just play a massive game of 40k with everything we had that would take the whole weekend to play.

 

3.) Which is your favorite "Wing"? Deathwing, Ravenwing, Greenwing, Mixed wing?
Deathwing is by far my favourite, all sparked by the Space Hulk PC game once I made the connection to that and the tabletop hobby. I do enjoy all the wings however Deathwing is above the rest. I have about 10,000 points of Dark Angels so have a lot to choose from.

 

4.) What is your play style?
I've been going to a lot more tournaments in the last couple of years and I'm glad I did as I have met some fantastic people. We use Community Comp in most of the events that I've been to in Australia so I really try and make a mobile all comers list so I have a fighting chance in a shooting battle and don't fall behind on objectives. For my more casual games in my local gaming group I take strong themed lists. Above everything though I always make sure that both myself and my opponent have a good time.

 

5.) What is your most treasured memory from your hobby career involving the Unforgiven?
The weekends in High School playing 40k all weekend are my most treasured memories. Don't think we even played the game properly back then but we had an awesome time. My favourite game moment of all time has got to be when my Rhino with Dozer Blade rammed a Ghost Ark scoring a Pen and blowing it up and then pinning the Warriors inside. Biggest stroke of luck I have ever had.

 

6.) Do you collect and play any other armies even though it's heresy?
I had about 3,000 points of Tau for a long time but mostly lived in a box and didn't play them very much. I enjoyed the anime feel to them but was never fully invested. I had always wanted to get a Tyranid army but the thought of painting so many gribblies made me cringe. A few weeks ago a nice deal fell into my lap that I couldn't pass up. I traded my Tau for a 70% painted Tyranid army with an excellent colour scheme that was simple to replicate. So now I have some bugs to fight my Dark Angels.

 

7.) Which is your favorite Unforgiven character? And favorite Villain?
I have always loved Ezekiel. His lore, his model and he isn't really a push over on the tabletop either. Not too sure about Villain, haven't really thought about it.

 

8.) Which is your favorite Black Library publication involving Unforgiven? And non-Unforgiven?
I have only read (and by read I mean listened too via audiobook) Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels but I can tell you they are both excellent books and I think the British narrators do an amazing job of making them that much better. I'm all about reading and using your imagination however I don't have time to read a book as there are other things I'd rather be doing (like painting :P). Non-Unforgiven my favourite Horus Heresy book so far has been Nemesis, love the Assassins.

 

9.) Is there any Forgeworld favorite that you want or already have?
A lot of the Forgeworld stuff I've seen is amazing but haven't purchased any yet and don't know if I ever will. I like playing the core game with what we have in the codex without outside additions.

 

10.) Any advice for your fellow Unforgiven Brothers?
I have seen way too much negativity in this hobby not just online but at my local FLGS and at Tournaments. This is a hobby and a game. If you are not enjoying it then you should really reconsider why you are paying buckets of money to be in the hobby. Always play for fun.

 

Thank you Solrac, for participating!

[Solrac]

I "liked" my own interview, is that a no no? :P

[Grand Master Belial]

I "liked" my own interview, is that a no no?

I 'Liked" my own so you are not alone.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Bumping!

 

Sorry for the long interruption...

Real life got in the way and I somehow deleted my Inbox, forgetting about the interviews I had, so I have to start from scratch! Soon, more Unforgiven interviews. :D

[Grand Master Belial]

Oh good, I was about to nudge you via PM about this. 

[Lostrael]

Good to hear that this project has not been forgotten. I like to read more about fellow Dark Angel player.