Victory is Vengeance

[A D-B]

As in, the Tactical Strike campaign rules in HH3: Extermination.

 

Due to a combination of: 1. Repeated failure to get an army painted (and in many cases, started), and 2. Crushing poverty meaning very few future purchases (as well as having to sell all my kits and my huge-ass Space Marine bitz box a few months back), I've been knuckling down on a few specific limited-budget ideas. My 40K Adeptus Mechanicus are going okay, I've got some Age of Sigmar stuff on the slow boil, and I'm running a big Necromunda campaign, but nothing concrete for the Horus Heresy.

 

One of my gaming group - let's call him Ross, as that's his name - is in similar straits and shares my feverish love of campaigns. We've turned our sights to Victory is Vengeance, knowing it'll range between 7-20 models most of the time, and comes with the awesome benefit of letting you go nuts on varied warbands, with loads of different Space Marine types from the Legions at the Dropsite Massacre.  

 

We read it, loved it, were 100% up for trying it. We'll likely run it as the two of us pretty casually, or a more intensive 4-player line up. All good. 

 

And with that in mind, I bring questions. Most of which are painfully obvious:

 

1. Anyone tried it? What did you think of it? Any war stories of what went well or completely spooned up? I like the system in general, and it's easy to see it's applications in other contexts. The most immediate one probably being the Ultramarines as Exterminators and the Word Bearers as Survivors, on Calth. We'll stick to the Isstvan Legions though, as it's also a decent way to try a few different paint schemes and hopefully lead into a full army one day.

 

2. Anyone got any thrilling lore or inspiring photos of their warbands? Any favourite conversions or characters? 

 

3. Any tips or hints regarding list construction? Not necessarily to win, but to chew over what works well and what doesn't, or what your group enjoyed and what they'd not try again. It's always cool to get some context on what makes for smooth/rough games. Headhunters, Seekers, and Recon Marines seem par for the course, background-wise - at least on the Traitor side. We're both quite big on how jump infantry plays, though. A fair few Assault Marines and their Legion-specific kindred might show up. Our first purchase is going to be splitting a 5-man MkIII Tactical Squad and some Phobos bolters.

 

4. I might do fortnightly video blogs about this, if I get inspired and it strikes me as interesting enough not to bore people to tears. If that's the case, it might be cool to widen it and ask peeps in internet land to join in and raise their own warbands with us over the next few months, and showcase the best/coolest/my fave submissions. It's a low investment and fairly easy thing for most hobbyists to do, so... Yeah, we'll see. 

 

Anyway, any insight and general Victory is Vengeance musing is very welcome. Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

 

 

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Sorry to hear about you needing to sell all of your kits and bitz, man. That's rough.

 

As someone who also has a hard time finishing more than a single figure now and then, this also interests me.

[Xin Ceithan]

As a rather glacial paced painter myself, my warband / army ideas usually outstrip my actual model output. So, I' ll follow this with interest.

I was hoping to use our Legion Wars themed Black Crusade campaign as a way to drag my usual gaming group into tabletop war gaming, but with little success as of yet. my group took to Mortheim quite well, in the days of yore, so there is hope yet we might get a low model count thingy on.

[Atia]

I haven't read the ViV rules yet (actually, I just found out recently that they exist, thanks to the other Bunnies), but I think it's a great idea, especially if you want to start a small, characterful army or warband. You could even go so far and play Zone Mortalis games later on (between 500 and 1000 points, something you get pretty easy with 30k), or form up to three kill-teams to a single Shattered Legions force in the future =)

[Marshal Rohr]

I dabbled with a Pre-Heresy Raven Guard or Imperial Fist Long Range Reconnaissance Team list for a while, but never did anything besides a few carapace armored recon legionaries test figures. The idea was a barebones Vigilator, Sniper/Spotter team, and two teams of a few legionaries.

[Balthamal]

Sorry to hear the bitz had to go mate. It still stings that I got rid of mine 15 years ago to fund illegal alcohol consumption and important stuff like uni books so I feel your pain. In response to your queries:

 

 

 

 

1. Anyone tried it? What did you think of it? Any war stories of what went well or completely spooned up? I like the system in general, and it's easy to see it's applications in other contexts. The most immediate one probably being the Ultramarines as Exterminators and the Word Bearers as Survivors, on Calth. We'll stick to the Isstvan Legions though, as it's also a decent way to try a few different paint schemes and hopefully lead into a full army one day.

 

 

 

As an escalation style tool to get some games in as your army expands it's pretty good. Myself and 3 friends gave it a go both to slowly expand collections (since this was before BaC and cheaper access to basic marines) and also to try and gain a feel for how marines vs marines worked without the neutraliser of And They Shall Know No Fear. There were some pretty epic games but after 8/9 weeks it trailed off, mainly because 1 person had money to throw at FW and built up a collection much faster then chafed at the smaller size of games. If (as is your case) you go at "glacial" pace, it should work out very well. You get the benefit of gaming, collecting and creating a great narrative at the same time. Plus you can tailor any of the missions found in the other 5 books to suit what your mood is. You'd be amazed how well they lend themselves to a bit of tinkering if the standard mission would be overkill for 1 army.

 

Only piece of advice I'd offer on this front, go with Legions you both like and work a narrative around it. As has been attested to in countless threads/pages in the AoD forum, building a Legion army is an expensive expression of love, and getting bored of it a month or two in is definitely a bad thing. There's plenty of scope for any 2 Legions to be scraping it out in any place or time that you can't really go wrong :)

 

 

 

2. Anyone got any thrilling lore or inspiring photos of their warbands? Any favourite conversions or characters? 

 

 

 

 

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag78/chud395/20140730_150957_zpsd7c19010.jpg

 

 

That's my elite of the 14th Company of the VIII Legion who spent the better part of the Drop Site Massacre having it out with the III Legion over petty slights. My pride and joy The Duke of Blades is front and centre, although I'm in the middle of doing a fresh conversion with him from Sevatar's model, plus I want to airbrush him this time too. Having read your stuff on The Bitter Tide, I doubt you'll struggle for inspiration ;)

 

 

 

 

3. Any tips or hints regarding list construction? Not necessarily to win, but to chew over what works well and what doesn't, or what your group enjoyed and what they'd not try again. It's always cool to get some context on what makes for smooth/rough games. Headhunters, Seekers, and Recon Marines seem par for the course, background-wise - at least on the Traitor side. We're both quite big on how jump infantry plays, though. A fair few Assault Marines and their Legion-specific kindred might show up. Our first purchase is going to be splitting a 5-man MkIII Tactical Squad and some Phobos bolters.

 

 

 

Generally, with the limitations imposed by ViV you should be set for the initial games. A lot will depend on both yours and Ross' aims. Are you looking for something that perfectly fits into a theme you've got in your head? Do you want a solid army that can deal with a good array of threats and still fit into a particular idea? Or are you after something strong on the board? The pair of you, plus whoever else you may bring in on it will need to have that fixed from the off because you'd be amazed how much grief can come from that. A great deal will also rest on the Legions you pick. Some are assault orientated, some all about the guns whilst others are a mishmash of other things. 

 

Without knowing what you plan on running I can't comment too much but from personal experience, leave alone any Legion specific stuff until you're breaking the 850 point barrier. You can even make it a game, you know reinforcements/reclaiming a downed ship/units promoted etc to fit it in. Stick to the generic stuff but also try to avoid simply going balls out to milk a Legion's traits like massed IF bolters/AL veterans/WB Librarians and that kind of thing.

 

To use your example above, Headhunters are still pretty average with their update (losing preferred enemy but gaining combi-weapons) Seekers are good but get very expensive and recon marines, pending an update later this year, are pretty much the worst unit in the game, at least from what I've seen/heard/read but if that's fitting in with what you're getting inspired by, go for it :)

 

Shattered Legions are a great way of maintaining some variety as well if you get ideas you want to incorporate. 

[Beaky Brigade]

I've actually been thinking about this too, though it would be interesting to know how the campaign plays out for most people, from what I understand you can end up with less points over time if things go badly for you, which seems the opposite of how you want a traditional escalation campaign to go. In terms of inspiring you to finish your army, painting a random collection of legionaries from different units does not seem like a very efficient thing to do, though the campaign sounds great as a pursuit in its own right, I get the feeling you would be better building a small force and then selecting from it as a pool to use in the campaign. Obviously this does not apply if you just want to make a eclectic warband you don't ever want to expand.

 

You start with 3 heroes but it looks like the 2 second in commands suffer permadeath and can't be replaced with new ones, and your leader could end up very weakened over time. All very fluffy I suppose. The good things about the rules is you can obviously chop and change anything you like for your own campaign. It's a good opportunity for shattered legions, though interestingly the 30k allies matrix is used in this case (in terms of the how the models rules are conferred to each other), instead of being ignored by the new book 6 rules.

 

In terms of force selection I'm assuming mutual understanding is important, if one player is going for a lot of bare bones tactical marines and the other player is going for a few expensive choices or legion specific units it may not work out.

 

One of my favourite things is the suggestion that you play the Deliverance Legendary mission (the one where the Raven Guard are saved in the nick of time from the World Eaters) at the end of the campaign (assuming you have 3000 points of minis by then!) and include your heroes as characters.

[Soldier of Dorn]

Haven't yet tried the Victory is Vengeance, but Jimbo was kind enough to email me a copy of the old Killzone: Survival rules, and I'm thinking I'll try them both out and compare them, which one I like better, all that jazz, since they both have similar concepts (as far as I see.)

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Ever since reading Victory is Vengeance I've loved the idea of an Iron Hands Survivors force which references the 3rd Edition Iron Hands option of giving sergeants terimnator armour by having either the Hero or all 3 Leaders being Avernii survivors equipped with some form of TDA, but have the rest of the warband in power armour - after all, the original background for that option was due to the losses in terminators & dreadnoughts suffered at Isstvan V.

 

Anyhow, I'm actually planning on picking up Betrayal at Calth towards the end of this month, and as a way of gradually building the force, I'm gonna be using ViV to get the army going. In terms of structure, because it's a way of progressing towards having the whole box completed, the models will be a bit less ad-hock and actually built on unit grounds (which I also think works better with the fact they'll be an Exterminators force).

 

For the background, they're a component of my X^th Legion Clan's 'Seeker-Killer Cohort Ultor' - a highly mobile anti-infantry force  - the reason I've deviated from the Iron Hands archetypal heavy infantry / armour is to explain their usage of Mk IV - which is more mobile & has better sensory equipment than Mk III.

 

As an Exterminators force this is the list I'm planning on:

 

 

Hero - Legion Praevian Consul

Leader - Techmarine

Leader - Tactical Sergeant (exchanges bolter for CCW)

 

Vorax Battle Automata - Frag Grenades

Vorax Battle Automata

4 x Tactical Marines - additional CCW

5 x Seekers

 

 

 

I know having the warband include Vorax might be a bit divisive, but I figured if you can have vehicles, then having Vorax alongside a Praevian Consul is probably okay - besides, including them in an Exterminators force is just perfect for them background-wise.

[Rangaman]

Victory is Vengeance is a great gateway drug, atleast for me, someone who has never played a game of Warhammer before. My gaming group (6-8 people) has recently started an Escalation Campaign with two rounds of ViV, one at 350 pts and the second at 450pts, and it has been very fun. Some mechanics are sometimes forgotten, such as Ammo and Armour checks for failed rolls of 1, so keep an eye on that.

I think the narrative of using a small warband is great! I started working on my force for the L&T in January which timed nicely with the startup of my new league and it has given me a double incentive to keep working, each soldier is important in a smaller scale battle. With that said, some things can be a bit powergamey at such a small scale. For example, since Breachers are technically the same price as a Tactical marine one player has maxed out 20 Breachers, it is almost impossible to hurt him.

I've found that the objective missions favour a larger force, there are so many targets to try and eliminate that you will never succeed in capturing them all. However, the breakthrough mission 100% favours elite warbands.

My force is set during the Istvaan III Betrayal, they are the 32nd Company of the Sons of Horus. I am not overly concerned with power level or competiveness at this point, I have spent so much time on the models, their names and background that I am just glad to have them out on a battlefield. My list is:

Centurion- Powerfist,Power weapon, AA
Vet Sgt- Powerfist, AA, Sniper
5xVeterans- Sniper
MkIV Dread- Multimelta



My first game saw me heavily outnumbered by Blood Angels, the only thing I could do was bunker down and hold objectives which saw me keeping one of five by games end. I did kill the opposing forced Hero with my dread though which was cool. Sniper on Veterans really proved to be invaluable here against power armour.

Game two was very one sided...I fought Ravenguard which was concerning since most of it was Dark Furies or Mor Deythan. I used my Dread as a shield and kept my force together behind him, bolters with Sniper did a lot of the work here for me and I wiped the table.

I think it is a great way to play casually while a) keeping costs down and giving yourself more time for each model. It is also a great way for someone like myself to learn the basic mechanics of the game without the pressure of using a whole army in a larger game.

[A D-B]

Sorry to hear about you needing to sell all of your kits and bitz, man. That's rough.

It sucked! But I've still got all of my limbs and the kiddywinkles haven't exploded (yet?) so no real complaints. Onwards and upwards. I made sure everything went to good homes. I may even see some of it across a tabletop at some point, rolling dice against me.

As a rather glacial paced painter myself, my warband / army ideas usually outstrip my actual model output. So, I' ll follow this with interest.

I was hoping to use our Legion Wars themed Black Crusade campaign as a way to drag my usual gaming group into tabletop war gaming, but with little success as of yet. my group took to Mortheim quite well, in the days of yore, so there is hope yet we might get a low model count thingy on.

I love the sound of that campaign.

I haven't read the ViV rules yet (actually, I just found out recently that they exist, thanks to the other Bunnies), but I think it's a great idea, especially if you want to start a small, characterful army or warband. You could even go so far and play Zone Mortalis games later on (between 500 and 1000 points, something you get pretty easy with 30k), or form up to three kill-teams to a single Shattered Legions force in the future =)

We're aiming for Zone Mortalis next year, with a few of us tactically requesting ZM tiles as presents at various birthdays/seasonal holidays. The eventual aim is definitely to have Horus Heresy armies (preferably ZM-themed, we're thinking) but that's a long way off for now.

I dabbled with a Pre-Heresy Raven Guard or Imperial Fist Long Range Reconnaissance Team list for a while, but never did anything besides a few carapace armored recon legionaries test figures. The idea was a barebones Vigilator, Sniper/Spotter team, and two teams of a few legionaries.

That's what I'm talking about. That's rad.

Only piece of advice I'd offer on this front, go with Legions you both like and work a narrative around it. As has been attested to in countless threads/pages in the AoD forum, building a Legion army is an expensive expression of love, and getting bored of it a month or two in is definitely a bad thing. There's plenty of scope for any 2 Legions to be scraping it out in any place or time that you can't really go wrong

I always hesitate at that notion, because I don't think it's any different really from building any other army in terms of labour-of-love-ness, and let's be honest: Heresy "This is just better" elitism is sadly a very real thing at times. That said, it's a good point in general, and the rules for ViV definitely convert anywhere.

We're pretty set on sticking with the aftermath of the Dropsite Massacre, which ties into a later point: Neither of us were necessarily planning on doing mono-Legion warbands. One of the best angles with this would be getting to piece together warbands of Exterminators (Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Word Bearers, Sons of Horus, Emperor's Children, World Eaters, Death Guard) and Survivors (Iron Hands, Raven Guard, and Salamanders).

Like, I was probably going to have 1-3 of each Traitor Legion, as a rough estimate.

Ross will have a fair bit of black to paint, mind.

I've actually been thinking about this too, though it would be interesting to know how the campaign plays out for most people, from what I understand you can end up with less points over time if things go badly for you, which seems the opposite of how you want a traditional escalation campaign to go. In terms of inspiring you to finish your army, painting a random collection of legionaries from different units does not seem like a very efficient thing to do, though the campaign sounds great as a pursuit in its own right, I get the feeling you would be better building a small force and then selecting from it as a pool to use in the campaign. Obviously this does not apply if you just want to make a eclectic warband you don't ever want to expand.

Yeah, you're not wrong. I think the appeal of future escalation comes from getting to try several Legion schemes and various models, and maybe choose one or two as eventual armies. F'rex, I'd likely never paint a Night Lord in my life, but this is a chance to paint one or two of the little blighters, and see where it goes. I may decide I like them loads and am not sick to death of being asked to write about them, after all. (Tee, and indeed, hee!)

The same with the Death Guard. As much as I love them, I'd never bother with that paint scheme, usually. Now it's a cool chance to see if it's as bad as I feared, etc.

Haven't yet tried the Victory is Vengeance, but Jimbo was kind enough to email me a copy of the old Killzone: Survival rules, and I'm thinking I'll try them both out and compare them, which one I like better, all that jazz, since they both have similar concepts (as far as I see.)

I am intrigualised. Tell me how that goes.

Ever since reading Victory is Vengeance I've loved the idea of an Iron Hands Survivors force which references the 3rd Edition Iron Hands option of giving sergeants terimnator armour by having either the Hero or all 3 Leaders being Avernii survivors equipped with some form of TDA, but have the rest of the warband in power armour - after all, the original background for that option was due to the losses in terminators & dreadnoughts suffered at Isstvan V.

Anyhow, I'm actually planning on picking up Betrayal at Calth towards the end of this month, and as a way of gradually building the force, I'm gonna be using ViV to get the army going. In terms of structure, because it's a way of progressing towards having the whole box completed, the models will be a bit less ad-hock and actually built on unit grounds (which I also think works better with the fact they'll be an Exterminators force).

For the background, they're a component of my X^th Legion Clan's 'Ultor Seeker-Killer Cohort' - a highly mobile anti-infantry force - the reason I've deviated from the Iron Hands archetypal heavy infantry / armour is to explain their usage of Mk IV - which is more mobile & has better sensory equipment than Mk III.

As an Exterminators force this is the list I'm planning on:

Hero - Legion Praevian Consul

Leader - Techmarine

Leader - Tactical Sergeant (exchanges bolter for CCW)

Vorax Battle Automata - Frag Grenades

Vorax Battle Automata

4 x Tactical Marines - additional CCW

5 x Seekers

I know having the warband include Vorax might be a bit divisive, but I figured if you can have vehicles, then having Vorax alongside a Praevian Consul is probably okay - besides, including them in an Exterminators force is just perfect for them background-wise.

Mechanicum work so awesomely on either the Exterminator or Survivor side, so I can't help but approve. And I love that list; that's exactly what I'm hoping for. It's deliciously themed and will look lush on the tabletop.

Inspiring stuff, IHF. I appreciate it (and demand pics.)

As much as "Getting several of each Traitor Legion" is a goal, theming it strongly is more important. I'm not worried yet, but I'm starting to suspect I'll end up jettisoning several Legions.

That said, an ad hoc warband of outriders, scouts, snipers, and so on from various Legions is pretty rad. So we'll see.

I've found that the objective missions favour a larger force, there are so many targets to try and eliminate that you will never succeed in capturing them all. However, the breakthrough mission 100% favours elite warbands.

Innnnntriguing.

Rangaman, on 04 Mar 2016 - 05:13 AM, said:

With that said, some things can be a bit powergamey at such a small scale. For example, since Breachers are technically the same price as a Tactical marine one player has maxed out 20 Breachers, it is almost impossible to hurt him.

Yeah. Ugh. Balls to that noise.

Rangaman, on 04 Mar 2016 - 05:13 AM, said:

My force is set during the Istvaan III Betrayal, they are the 32nd Company of the Sons of Horus. I am not overly concerned with power level or competiveness at this point, I have spent so much time on the models, their names and background that I am just glad to have them out on a battlefield. My list is:

Centurion- Powerfist,Power weapon, AA

Vet Sgt- Powerfist, AA, Sniper

5xVeterans- Sniper

MkIV Dread- Multimelta

Man, those models are things of beauty. Beautiful work, dude.

[Balthamal]

Sounds like you've got a really good grasp in what you want the army being themed around. I shall observe with interest

[Hesh Kadesh]

Do you have any particular legion in mind? I'd personally advise that you try and include the following houerules;

 

No Flyers

No AV of 13 or higher, no vehicle whose total AV facing is 34 or higher, no hull points of 4 or more.

No unit type may make up more than a third of your force

Malefic is not allowed

Moritats may not be considered Hero (BS7 Imperial Fist dual BP Marksman = 49 Action Points

No Monstrous Creatures

 

Night Lords, Raven Guard, Imperial Fists and White Scars off the top of my head are strong, although I may have overlooked a few others.

[Varangian]

Its a great system, like Hesh said it is smart to add a few houserules, also check out adepticons modified victory is vengeance rules.
There are some inconsistensies though, like Breachers costing the same as regular tacticals.

We have a campaign running here in Tromsø, its great fun.

[Hesh Kadesh]

A good model if you are unsure is a Standard Bearer. 20pts for a Fearless 6" bubble and access to most melee weapons and a Combat Shield is brilliant. It isn't a character, either, meaning it doesn't have to be a leader.

 

Another idea is to come up with a map (we used the old Vogen map) and use that to locate forces; if you nominate a games master you could play it like Battleships, with two hidden maps, where if you 'hit' a target (ie a fortified cell, or one in which an enemy force is within) Then you can fight a battle. If you have an AL player, they could always become an (XX/double crosser).

[jimbo13]

Haven't yet tried the Victory is Vengeance, but Jimbo was kind enough to email me a copy of the old Killzone: Survival rules, and I'm thinking I'll try them both out and compare them, which one I like better, all that jazz, since they both have similar concepts (as far as I see.)

 

Hey A D-B,

 

I'd be happy to send you over the Kill Zone Rules. Just pm if you want them. Added bonus- check this page out (shout out to Arkhan and Disease, this pushed me onto the brakeless train)

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296690-survivors-of-istvaan-raven-guard-vs-death-guard/

[A D-B]

One thing I'm getting not only from this thread but various Google searches is the notion that most people seem to use it as a general ruleset and for their preferred Legions, rather than specifically for Isstvan V and a mixture of Legions.

 

That's interesting! So I'm sort of musing over that now, which is an unexpected development.  

[Atia]

One thing I'm getting not only from this thread but various Google searches is the notion that most people seem to use it as a general ruleset and for their preferred Legions, rather than specifically for Isstvan V and a mixture of Legions.

 

That's interesting! So I'm sort of musing over that now, which is an unexpected development.  

They added the ViV ruleset to book III to represent the "after the Massacre" campaign at Istvaan V. But it's basically killteam, so you are free to use it for other things, not only Istvaan. Same with the Death in the Void expansion, which was introduced for the narrative framework of Phall, but can be used for all Void Battles ^.^

[A D-B]

 

One thing I'm getting not only from this thread but various Google searches is the notion that most people seem to use it as a general ruleset and for their preferred Legions, rather than specifically for Isstvan V and a mixture of Legions.

 

That's interesting! So I'm sort of musing over that now, which is an unexpected development.  

They added the ViV ruleset to book III to represent the "after the Massacre" campaign at Istvaan V. But it's basically killteam, so you are free to use it for other things, not only Istvaan. Same with the Death in the Void expansion, which was introduced for the narrative framework of Phall, but can be used for all Void Battles ^.^

 

 

For sure! I'm just surprised I see so few Isstvan campaigns with it, is all.

[Slips]

Also, if you have Book 4 Conquest, look into the Campaign Character Advancement section/tables!

 

Could be a cool thin to add on that would allow y'all to make custom characters.

[Xin Ceithan]

 

 

 

 

One thing I'm getting not only from this thread but various Google searches is the notion that most people seem to use it as a general ruleset and for their preferred Legions, rather than specifically for Isstvan V and a mixture of Legions.

 

That's interesting! So I'm sort of musing over that now, which is an unexpected development.

They added the ViV ruleset to book III to represent the "after the Massacre" campaign at Istvaan V. But it's basically killteam, so you are free to use it for other things, not only Istvaan. Same with the Death in the Void expansion, which was introduced for the narrative framework of Phall, but can be used for all Void Battles ^.^

For sure! I'm just surprised I see so few Isstvan campaigns with it, is all.

Funny enough, the ViV system made me want to put up a -at least a priori- loyalist Force in years ;)

Just to see, if and who makes it Off Istvaan post massacre.

 

But since it's basically Killteam with Legions, that's what made me consider it for our Legion Wars campaign. Which is mostly brainstorming one shot Stories right now to explore some character and setting ideas. Since even starting Black Crusade Characters are supposed to be of a sort of lesser warband leading level of infamy, I pictured we could run little legion force warbands using ViV and actually play out some of their exploits before they meet in the campaign proper...give some stories to their wargear as well - "Took this chainaxe from a World Eater on Sorrowfane!" Oh well, all is not lost yet...

 

Damn autocorrect typos...with this edit, I cast you out! Out into the void!

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

 

 

One thing I'm getting not only from this thread but various Google searches is the notion that most people seem to use it as a general ruleset and for their preferred Legions, rather than specifically for Isstvan V and a mixture of Legions.

 

That's interesting! So I'm sort of musing over that now, which is an unexpected development.  

They added the ViV ruleset to book III to represent the "after the Massacre" campaign at Istvaan V. But it's basically killteam, so you are free to use it for other things, not only Istvaan. Same with the Death in the Void expansion, which was introduced for the narrative framework of Phall, but can be used for all Void Battles ^.^

 

 

For sure! I'm just surprised I see so few Isstvan campaigns with it, is all.

 

 

I think it might have to do with how people build their collections - it seems that most people playing ViV are either using it to slowly build up a larger army, or selecting models from an existing force. Up until the Shattered Legions rules in Book 6, there wasn't really a way to viably collect a force constituted from multiple Legions, so buying and painting models that could only really be used for ViV might have been a bit counter-intuitive for some

[Beaky Brigade]

There were only 3 loyalist legions at Isstvan, (ignoring the IF as they never got there) so if you are going to play it purely fluffy/ 'historical' and don't want to do loyalist traitor legions then you are limiting the numbers of loyalist players you will attract, I'm sure most people would prefer to change history, or the setting so they can include other players who collect different legions, rather than turn them away. Or it could be that your modest collection of flocked trees and generic ruined structures does not make a very plausible Isstvan V!

[Marshal Rohr]

If I were an intelligent person, I'd have used the structure of campaign systems FW has come out to build an army from the ground up and actually play some narrative driven campaigns, instead of just doing random models. Starting with ViV, move to Zone Mortalis, to an Age of Darkness army, to my final project of a core army and some additional unit selections.

[Hesh Kadesh]

There are a million possibilities. An Alpha Legion Recon Detachment assigned to a Blood Angels Ship at the outset of the Heresy, in resupply.

 

Fleeing the madness of the BA as the Red Angel attempts to grab hold, they jump aboard Drop Pods, with a suicide squad sent to the targeting suite. Without time to properly aim, the survivors are scattered all over the planet, and the BA attempt to secure the AL assets but as only a small ship, they don't have the resources to propagate a full blown search, and the AL, on scarse resources go all 'First Blood' on the scattered BA.