Victory is Vengeance

[CaptainStabby]

What's so "mainstream" or cheesy about IH apothecaries?

 

4+ FNP as a default, and then build from there for bikerstar ickyness.

[aa.logan]

 

Sorry for the out-of-sequence question, that probably could be answered with a quick google, but can ViV forces include jetbikes? 

 

If not, they really should be able to as they could look mighty cool

 

They're a crunchy bunch'a points, at the very least.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Two ideas spring to my mind, almost vividly enough for me to say sod it, tomorrow's payday, and place a Forgeworld order

• A Sons of Horus force, mainly Reavers, recalling tactics from their gang days- using a pair of jetbikes to scout and then flush out their opponents, and then drive them into a killing field. Starting to go feral, feeling the tug of Chaos as they hunt down survivors, old squabbles and slights coming to the fore as they even turn on their own. To be honest, this kind of works with all the traitor legions, but the Reavers are such lovely models... 
• A mix of loyalists, led by apothecaries, before the fatalism of the betrayal has fully set in, collecting up as much geneseed as they can to get off-world and save what they can of their legion, and techmarines gathering what artefacts and supplies they can from the dead, realising thy're in for a long fight. At first using a Rhino, loading it with their haul, only to find it too slow, too ponderous and too much of a target, before stacking what they can on their jetbike a la Rey from TFA, as they flit from site to site looking for supplies and a way back into orbit

[Slips]

 

 

What's so "mainstream" or cheesy about IH apothecaries?

4+ FNP as a default, and then build from there for bikerstar ickyness.

How are you getting a 4+ FNP? This isnt 40k where they get +1 to FNP

[Dantay VI]

A D-B, are these the purples you were shooting for with your Emperors Children troops?

 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb456/dantay_xv/SAM_3286.jpg

[CaptainStabby]

 

 

What's so "mainstream" or cheesy about IH apothecaries?

4+ FNP as a default, and then build from there for bikerstar ickyness.

How are you getting a 4+ FNP? This isnt 40k where they get +1 to FNP

 

True, but the ehrmageeerd it's cheesey or mainstream reaction comes from those bikestar lists.

[Slips]

 

 

 

What's so "mainstream" or cheesy about IH apothecaries?

4+ FNP as a default, and then build from there for bikerstar ickyness.

How are you getting a 4+ FNP? This isnt 40k where they get +1 to FNP

 

True, but the ehrmageeerd it's cheesey or mainstream reaction comes from those bikestar lists.

 

But this is a 30k thread so that really shouldn't apply.

 

And if it did, it'd be because 30k Iron Hands Infantry get -1S to shooting done to them meaning only S9+ doubles them out for FNP. Additionally, only a Primus Medicae (not cheap) can take a Jump Pack/TDA/Bike/Jetbike to give those units FNP so its by no means as widespread as 40k shenanigans nor near as potent since Eternal Warrior isn't on every single Space Marine HQ worth taking.

 

All an Iron Hands Apothecary would do for Ross in ViV is give him a Character who could tank S8 Shooting and still get an FNP (5+) roll. Thats it. They still get gibbed by S8 in melee since it only specifically applies to Shooting and its still only One (standard apothecary) or Two (Primus) Wound models.

 

So, what I'm getting at is:

 

Ross, if you want to run an IH Apothecary, do it. Its not as cheesy as it seems at first.

[Macloren]

I got the impression that the cheese factor that A D-B was referring to relates more to fluff than rules. As in any small scale skirmish/RP setting like ViV, I28, Deathwatch RP or the like, a lot of people make their Apothicary an Iron Hand in order to be unconventional. However, it's sort of become the new norm in those settings.

[Balthamal]

I got the impression that the cheese factor that A D-B was referring to relates more to fluff than rules. As in any small scale skirmish/RP setting like ViV, I28, Deathwatch RP or the like, a lot of people make their Apothicary an Iron Hand in order to be unconventional. However, it's sort of become the new norm in those settings.

 

That's a fair point but considering the main setting for ViV is post DSM, if someone is playing loyalists and wants an apothecary then they're restricted to 3 Legions. 

 

Bottom line, go with what you have good ideas for.

[Macloren]

Bottom line, go with what you have good ideas for.

Totally agree, it's always best not to let other people's choices dictate your own, though that is though sometimes! :-( I've fallen foul of the old, "oh man! I can't do *instert legion* because *insert player* is doing them!" Thinking in the past.

[Hesh Kadesh]

It wasn't so much cheesy, just quite powerful for how little it costs.

 

2+ Save, T4.5, FNP, Augury Scanner (how that works when they can deploy within 12" anyway...) and Power Sword for 60pts is bargain bin good, especially when they can pick up boosts (personally, I recommend picking up Book IV for the character advancement there, it is a bit more in depth, and lends well to a more connnected campaign. When combined with something like Paragon trait, which is 'all the AP ever'

 

A pair of Lascannons soon put paid to one of the chaps who tried to abuse that locally, parking him in front of his force and tanking shots. 2 BS5 Cognis Signum'd Lascannons beaned him right tho.

[Xin Ceithan]

I quite like the bike/ jetbike idea.

An EC force as a "Wild Hunt" style sky hunter pack, a bunch of "noble Gentlemen " hunting from the rabble without having to sully their feet by touching the ground. One would have to bling up the jetbikes of course.

 

Concept works well for NL of course. Would have to add some more sharp objects and parts from the undead cavalry. More headless horseman style.

 

Thinking about it and considering the outlier / out of the Box ideas from earlier:

Death Guard on bikes, even better - Jetbikes!

The Field covered in clouds of ash, yellowbrown poison clouds everywhere. A couple of phophex fires burning, to set the mood. Staggering survivors. Then, the Death Guard skyhunters among them, like sharks. Scythes! Volkites!...

[Daemon2027]

Only thing is, how many bikes or jetbikes could you get in a ViV force.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

I got the impression that the cheese factor that A D-B was referring to relates more to fluff than rules. As in any small scale skirmish/RP setting like ViV, I28, Deathwatch RP or the like, a lot of people make their Apothicary an Iron Hand in order to be unconventional. However, it's sort of become the new norm in those settings.

 

I just want to point out that there's nothing unconventional about Iron Hands apothecaries - they had the same proportion of apothecaries as any other Legion, the only difference in approach was that rather than wait months for genetically identical vat grown replacements from limbs or organs, they used bionics which would allow Legionaries to be back in the field far quicker. Geneseed was also equally vital to the X^th Legion as any other - IH apothecaries are entirely normal

[Macloren]

 

 

I got the impression that the cheese factor that A D-B was referring to relates more to fluff than rules. As in any small scale skirmish/RP setting like ViV, I28, Deathwatch RP or the like, a lot of people make their Apothicary an Iron Hand in order to be unconventional. However, it's sort of become the new norm in those settings.

I just want to point out that there's nothing unconventional about Iron Hands apothecaries - they had the same proportion of apothecaries as any other Legion, the only difference in approach was that rather than wait months for genetically identical vat grown replacements from limbs or organs, they used bionics which would allow Legionaries to be back in the field far quicker. Geneseed was also equally vital to the X^th Legion as any other - IH apothecaries are entirely normal

You appear to have missed my point here. We were talking stereotypes, so for example, an EC Duelist, an IW Artilary specialist, an IH tec marine etc, I was speaking from my experience playing marine RPesq games, where people attempt to avoid the stereotypical options, so go for an IH Appothicary, but as so many people choose that combination, that it has become its own little 'cliche' in that gaming environment.

 

For all that, don't think I'm trying to dissuade anyone from playing anything they want. I love the idea of a grumpy old IH medic.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

I got the impression that the cheese factor that A D-B was referring to relates more to fluff than rules. As in any small scale skirmish/RP setting like ViV, I28, Deathwatch RP or the like, a lot of people make their Apothicary an Iron Hand in order to be unconventional. However, it's sort of become the new norm in those settings.

I just want to point out that there's nothing unconventional about Iron Hands apothecaries - they had the same proportion of apothecaries as any other Legion, the only difference in approach was that rather than wait months for genetically identical vat grown replacements from limbs or organs, they used bionics which would allow Legionaries to be back in the field far quicker. Geneseed was also equally vital to the X^th Legion as any other - IH apothecaries are entirely normal

You appear to have missed my point here. We were talking stereotypes, so for example, an EC Duelist, an IW Artilary specialist, an IH tec marine etc, I was speaking from my experience playing marine RPesq games, where people attempt to avoid the stereotypical options, so go for an IH Appothicary, but as so many people choose that combination, that it has become its own little 'cliche' in that gaming environment.

For all that, don't think I'm trying to dissuade anyone from playing anything they want. I love the idea of a grumpy old IH medic.

Yeah apologies - I probably shouldn't have quoted you directly, as I was addressing a general suggestion from a few posts that an Iron Hands apothecary was somehow uncharacteristic for the Legion, whether because of their penchant for bionics or a conflation of Iron Fathers and apothecaries because of a role the former might have played in the cybernetic implantation process from some old fluff on the IH Chapter, not the legion.

Anyhow, I'll try not to derail the thread any further

[Kizzdougs]

Hey bro,

 

If you want to go with the magenta route rather than the royal purple, I can recommend Formula P3's Murderous Magenta. It's made by Privateer press and it looks pretty close to the old Citadel Warlock Purple. I've been trying it out on my latest Emperor's Child and I'm pretty happy with the results :) 

[Reyner]

I might have a pot or two of warlock purple kicking around... Should still be ok for use... 

[Dantay VI]

I can happily part with my liche & warlock purple. Had them for years and only used them once to paint an axe haft :)

Happy enough to send the. To a good home.

[Kol Saresk]

I can happily part with my liche & warlock purple. Had them for years and only used them once to paint an axe haft

Happy enough to send the. To a good home.

You make them sound like puppies. Pretty sure paints are more important than cute and adorable puppies.

[Calas Typhon]

I can happily part with my liche & warlock purple. Had them for years and only used them once to paint an axe haft

Happy enough to send the. To a good home.

You make them sound like puppies. Pretty sure paints are more important than cute and adorable puppies.

Puppies are for cannon fodder burning and sacrifice, paints are infinitely more important.

I might be thinking of humans in the IoM though.

[A D-B]

Firstly, any thread derailings are both welcomed and encouraged. The more musing, the better and more helpful it'll be. 

 

Secondly, bless all o' y'all for the offers/advice of purple and pink paint. I'm pretty happy with my current long-distance service provid-- uh, my current purple. I think the pink looks slightly better on Emperor's Children, but the purple's good enough for government work, to steal a phrase.

 

Thirdly, in some actual news, my pal Dimi sent me a double handful of various bitz (including 7-8 BaC Marines and 5 Salamander torsos and heads for Ross) - and in my Dreadfleet box I found a treasure trove (no pun intended) of two (two!) unopened jetbikes that I thought I'd sold weeks ago, and a few World Eater torsos/Mk.II shoulder pads. The down side is that I've now torn my office apart and turned it upside down, and there're no more bitz to be found anywhere. Boo, hiss. 

 

So this week I'm set to paint up an EC torso and try a couple of World Eater bodies, too. We'll see how it goes. 

 

"Those Legions I had no interest in" suddenly look much more interesting when a few bitz are, y'know, free.

[A D-B]

On the same note, despite having zero interest in weathering, when you're faced with white armour... suddenly learning one of the few tricks to make white look more interesting becomes a little more tempting.

 

(And please don't quote the "Things were more weathered in the Heresy" thing. Boo to elitism! We're all smart human beings. If you genuinely think, say, Chaos Marines in literally every/any day of their lives fight less than Heresy-era armies and have way more time to clean up their uniforms and armour, then you and I can never be pals. Also, I have a bridge to sell you.)

[Marshal Rohr]

On the same note, despite having zero interest in weathering, when you're faced with white armour... suddenly learning one of the few tricks to make white look more interesting becomes a little more tempting.

 

(And please don't quote the "Things were more weathered in the Heresy" thing. Boo to elitism! We're all smart human beings. If you genuinely think, say, Chaos Marines in literally every/any day of their lives fight less than Heresy-era armies and have way more time to clean up their uniforms and armour, then you and I can never be pals. Also, I have a bridge to sell you.)

Kizz actually just posted some white weathering techniques in his EC log in the forge. Id link you to it, but my phone isn't cooperating >:(

[A D-B]

On the same note, despite having zero interest in weathering, when you're faced with white armour... suddenly learning one of the few tricks to make white look more interesting becomes a little more tempting.

(And please don't quote the "Things were more weathered in the Heresy" thing. Boo to elitism! We're all smart human beings. If you genuinely think, say, Chaos Marines in literally every/any day of their lives fight less than Heresy-era armies and have way more time to clean up their uniforms and armour, then you and I can never be pals. Also, I have a bridge to sell you.)

Kizz actually just posted some white weathering techniques in his EC log in the forge. Id link you to it, but my phone isn't cooperating >

No. To hell with Kizz. I hate him and will eviscerate him in fiction.

[Marshal Rohr]

Talon of Horus 2: Lord Commander Kizz Douglas, a former legion commander forced into a lifetime of servitude cleaning Abaddons chamber pot.