Does Human Wave Guard still work?

[Truesight]

So, I'm in a fun tournament, who's main purpose is to make friends with other players.  I want to try something different I never usually do.

I will likely be getting a good deal on over 100 painted guardsman, so I want to try horde guard.

 

It's 1000 points so I was thinking

Yarrick

 

Infantry platoon

30 conscripts, commissar

 

Commissar

3xInfantry Squads, flamers, krak grenades, melta bomb sergeants, 

 

PCS- melta

 

Infantry platoon

30 conscripts, commissar

Heavy weapons squad, 3x Autocannon

3xInfantry Squads, melta gun, krak grenades, melta bomb sergeants, (Yarrick goes here)

 

PCS- 2 grenade launchers

 

And that's it.

 

134 infantry models at 1000 sounds hilarious.

 

Is it a That Guy move? Is it plain bad?  Any advice from people who have run it before?

[Teetengee]

Not enough models to work is my fear. Yarrick sounds too expensive for this, couldn't you get a cheap command squad and another couple units for his cost?

[Noserenda]

Ive not played human wave outside of 30k for a while though id expect it to still run alright, especially in smaller games :D

One thing id say is that that kinda of army is a bit like marmite, some people love fighting them, some people hate it so it could potentially be a friendship killer. That said i doubt youd get that extreme a reaction in a smaller game, its the ones that take half an hour to move every turn that drive people crazy :)

[Truesight]

Not enough models to work is my fear. Yarrick sounds too expensive for this, couldn't you get a cheap command squad and another couple units for his cost?

He is a little pricey at 1k, but he does add alot. I could save 80 points and take a stock Lord commissar. I'm not sure about a command squad, they'd be walking and largely an easy target for first blood and warlord. Yarrick denies both of these. How many men do you think I'd need?

Ive not played human wave outside of 30k for a while though id expect it to still run alright, especially in smaller games

One thing id say is that that kinda of army is a bit like marmite, some people love fighting them, some people hate it so it could potentially be a friendship killer. That said i doubt youd get that extreme a reaction in a smaller game, its the ones that take half an hour to move every turn that drive people crazy

Definitely, I should probably give warning ahead of time, but I feel some people could stomp my guts out with that kind of forewarning. Then again, 130 dudes is alot..

[Teetengee]

I would want probably want closer to 180-200 bodies for 1k points if you really want human waves. about 500-600 points spent on bodies, if you think it would work. But it has been a long time since I played guard, so I might be off base there.

[WarriorFish]

It has some merit I think, but you need to play to the advantages. If you want to put lots of models on the table you must try and spread them out across many squads so your opponent can't easily deal with them. Bringing in the heavier weapons needed to tackle some foes will be harder, so full use of upgrades needs to be made too.

 

The trick would be to make your opponent's life difficult. Give him too many units to deal with, and avoid giving him easy targets (expensive or large squads). Essentially a focus on ultimate redundancy - no matter what unit you lose you have plenty more doing the same thing! So I'd try for squads that are a little cheaper and get a few more bodies on the table. When you can say you have more models than most opponent's can feasibly deal with in a game you're running a true human wave list ;)

[Akrim]

Straken might be an interesting inclusion, throwing furious charge around.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

With the current meta focused on grabbing objectives, and building to the Maelstrom missions, you might have the advantage given that your opponents might not know or remember how to deal with hordes, and may only be focused on obsec units, which may not have the punch to shoot your hordes off the table. They may be totally lacking sufficient firepower to kill everything you brought in 5 turns of shooting.

 

So in that regard it may be a that guy move, but on the other hand, the players might enjoy the challenge it presents them. Also, it's better to ask forgiveness than permission...

[march10k]

I would want probably want closer to 180-200 bodies for 1k points if you really want human waves. about 500-600 points spent on bodies, if you think it would work. But it has been a long time since I played guard, so I might be off base there.

Umm...not so sure about this one.  200 bodies is 5ppm, after upgrades.  Stock infantrymen are 5ppm...conscripts 3ppm...even with 50 conscripts, you've only generated 100 points worth of upgrades within 5ppm requirement.  Actually, make that 90, the 5 man command squad is 6ppm naked.  Oh, and you have to have an HQ...when it's all said and done, you'll have a couple of flamers and maybe a meltgun in your horde if you want 200 models for 1000 points.  150 men is a much healthier target, allows 6 2/3 ppm...that's enough to bring in priests for the mobs and give the BS3 units some guns that can scratch the paint on a rhino...and at 1000 points, even orks aren't going to have 150 models without throwing competitiveness completely out the window.  150 points appiece for mobs of 50 is nice (actually, mobs of 30 is better), but if your whole army is BS2 lasguns...

[Teetengee]

I would point out that orks are stronger than geq.

Also, I think averaging 5ppm after upgrades is about right for horde guard. You only need upgrades to deal with things that S3 can't.

[librisrouge]

I've tried similar lists and I have a few suggestions. First, by all means, keep Yarrick but make sure that you're putting his orders to good use. The only reason to take Yarrick over the cheaper Lord Commissar is that he also issues orders. Use that. Next, those Conscript blobs need priests. They're, surprisingly to some, melee units. Don't play them like normal guardsmen, go forth and stab that xenos in the eye with a bayonet. Priests significantly help with this. Pay for them by dropping the krak grenades upgrades. I've never really liked them.

 

Last, stick to conscripts if you're planning to live next to the enemy. Those flamers may seem nice, but they don't contribute as much as more bodies does against too many enemies. Drop both infantry blobs to twenty men and add bodies to the zealous conscript blobs. Heck, consider making the infantry blobs ranged based (autocannon or lascannon) so that you can crack rhinos open in time for the conscripts to stab the tactical squads within to death. If you do that, then go with a CCS to sit back, issue orders, and keep people from running with a regimental banner.

[Goonbandito]

Hmm, seems like alot of points tied up in upgrades that could probably be better used elsewhere. Here's how I would do it:

 

HQ

Company Command Squad: Vox Caster, Regimental Standard

 

No Force Org

Ministorum Priest

Ministorum Priest

Primaris Psyker (ML2)

Primaris Psyker (ML2)

 

Troops:

Infantry Platoon:

--Platoon Command Squad (3x Flamers, Vox Caster)

--Infantry Squad (Autocannon, Vox Caster, Commisaar)

--Infantry Squad (Autocannon)

--Conscripts (x30)

 

Infantry Platoon:

--Platoon Command Squad (3x Flamers, Vox Caster)

--Infantry Squad (Autocannon, Vox Caster, Commisaar)

--Infantry Squad (Autocannon)

--Conscripts (x30)

 

Hide the CCS out of LOS and use them purely to issue orders and provide the Morale/Pinning/Fear re-roll to your Infantry Squads. Priests join the Conscript blobs and push up the field, with the Platoon Command Squads following them to stay in order range of the Conscripts (primarily for the 3D6 on Run or the Run and Shoot orders, though a well timed FRFSRF can come in handy if for some reason you're not charging that turn).

 

Infantry Squads blob up into 2 units of 20, ending up with 2 Autocannons, a Vox Caster and Commissar each. These are what your CCS orders to Ignore Cover or Tank/Monster Hunter as appropriate.

 

Primaris Psykers roll on Divination, fishing for Misfortune (all hits on targeted enemy unit become rending) or Forewarning (4++ on friendly unit within 12"), and joins a unit as appropriate. Prescience, the Primaris Power, is also very handy on BS3 models though at WC2 you might find yourself short on dice to cast it.

 

That leaves 100 odd points left over to fill out somewhere. Aegis Defence Line is probably a good investment to put an Autocannon squad behind. If you're desperate for more shooting, you could put a Heavy Support Squad with Autocannons in, though I don't think Heavy Support Squads are particularly good (way too vulnerable to S6+ shooting).

[Teetengee]

Goon's list isn't bad, but it needs something to deal with av14. I would suggest melta bombs or meltaguns instead of flamers.

[duz_]

Standard is kind pointless your blobs will be fearless

And +1 wounds in combat isn't really gonna make a difference

Use the points for krak grenades or melta bombs

[Goonbandito]

Standard is kind pointless your blobs will be fearless

And +1 wounds in combat isn't really gonna make a difference

Use the points for krak grenades or melta bombs

The Autocannon Infantry Squads aren't Fearless, which is what the Regimental Standard is for (12" of re-roll Morale/Pinning/Fear). Yes at least they'll be Stubborn from the Commisaar, but given you're likely to be near the board edge in your deployment zone any Fall Back move has a high chance to result in disaster. 15pts is pretty cheap for the benefit you get, but if you feel confident in a LD9 test on your Autocannon Squads then by all means drop it from the CCS.

[duz_]

A Commissar means that they will pass regardless. Except there is a 1/3 chance of your opponent selecting which model to remove, if you fail your initial LD9 test (1/4).

 

I was just trying to point out where you might find some pts for other upgrades

If you think its an acceptable price for what it offers than by all means use it

 

Personally I turned my standard bearer into a lasgunnner because I rarely have the 15pts to spare in my lists

[Goonbandito]

A Commissar means that they will pass regardless. Except there is a 1/3 chance of your opponent selecting which model to remove, if you fail your initial LD9 test (1/4).

I was just trying to point out where you might find some pts for other upgrades

If you think its an acceptable price for what it offers than by all means use it

Personally I turned my standard bearer into a lasgunnner because I rarely have the 15pts to spare in my lists

Oh right, yeah Summary Execution - I've had some pretty bad luck with that rule so I try to avoid using it where possible. Its 15pts for the Regimental Standard. Its also 15pts lost when you roll the 1 or 2 on Summary Execution and are forced to execute the Autocannon team