The Legion For You: Part Two, Electric Boogaloo!

[Breakthrough]

Heyha guys :)

 

My first post on this Forum and for me actual the most important one, its about my future in the Heresy.

 

What I actual dont want to play is:

UM / IW / WE / EC all these Legions are already present at our gaming club .

 

First of all what I have:

Actual I own 1 B@C Box, an Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw, a Cybot Drop Pod, a Leviathan Pattern Dreadnought with Drill and Grav Flux, anda tada one Rhino :)

 

Second:

I am a really bad painter, what i can do best is painting primary colours and then finishing wit army painter dark shade ;)

 

What I like,:

Model and Fluffwise i like the most of the stuff  , I lyke the style of Breacher Squads, the Fluff os Destroyers and Seekers, I like Cybots and Contemptors, the heavy armoury especially the style of the Vindicator ( Laser array )

 

So guys you see its not easy with me, and the friends in our gaming club are near an mental breakdown because I cant decide :)

 

I hope you can help me to give me a push in the right side :)

 

Additionally I would prefer an traitor legion, because I always was the bad guy in 40k ( first World eaters - then Iron Warriors - then Word bearers )

 

Best regards

[Idomeneus]

With what you have I'd go with Death Guard,  I think they can work quite well with primary colours and a wash, and while you can do any style list with any legion an infantry based list with dreadnought and terminator support makes quite a good classic DG list. It's a shame the B@C marines are Mk IV rather than II or III for Death Guard, but you can't have everything. The drop pods could make a good SoH list, but that blue-green isn't good for quick and simple if that is what you desire. Word Bearers are also an option, but if you already have them in 40k you may not want more (or you may want to do their heresy equivalents, it depends). Alpha Legion and Night Lords are probably a little involved on the colour scheme side unless you use an alternate scheme.

 

On the other hand from what you say your local gaming group has quite a lot of traitors, a loyalist force might come in handy if you can stomach fighting for the Throneworld. Iron Hands would work well with the units you have, -1 strength against your infantry is not to be sneezed at, and  a dark grey with the metal picked out, then washed with strong tone and black should create a decent looking force without too much effort.

 

Just my two denarii.

[ThatMetalhead]

Hello!

So... First post for me... Which legion shoul i pick up?

I don't like the traitorous legions, so i would go loyal, but then 2 problems show up:

1- i'm not a good painter

2- i don't like spartans (land raiders are ok, but spartans are... Meh....)

So, in the end i don't know which legion to choose between IH (they can do the job, but they havd lost their primarch...) and DA (but i don't really know which was their fighting style).

And Space Wolves. Space Wolves are really cool (but i ddon't know much abount their war style).

Edited October 16, 2016 by ThatMetalhead

[Zond]

I've ordered a Calth box and I'll be ordering a Prospero one this weekend. I'm more a painter than a player so I doubt I'll ever put the models on the table, and even then it will probably be using a skirmish style ruleset.

 

I enjoy colourful armies. One of the main reasons I get bored with large painting projects is that I find regimented colours a chore to paint. I'm looking for a Legion with lots of diversity in this regard. My initial thoughts were towards any loyalist Legions that had a reasonable number of Second Founding successors, as they could conceivably have their heraldry origins in the heresy. It's been a while since I followed the novels, but The Unremembered Empire had what appeared to be the origins of the Silver Skulls and the Scythes of the Emperor (if I remember correctly), so Ultramarines are tempting, as are White Scars.

 

On the Traitor side its much more complicated as aside from Legion rebranding e.g. Dusk Raiders to Death Guard the colours are again uniform. I'm tempted to throw canon to the wind and do Thousand Sons where each Psyker Cult has its own colour scheme that would blend in with the traditional red, gold, bone and silver. This could also give me another splash of colour by letting me add Tutelaries.

 

The last option is to go Knight Errant but again ignore canon and still have some way of representing the colours or heraldry of each Astartes original Legion. So basically proto-Deathwatch but with a white or grey base and additional Sigilite heraldry. There's also Blackshields I guess but I'm not exactly looking to invent entire colour schemes.

 

I guess I'm asking which one of these options breaks the canon least and would allow me to play with the least amount of hassle on the off chance I end up riding the Heresy train all the way to madness.

[Doctor Perils]

I've ordered a Calth box and I'll be ordering a Prospero one this weekend. I'm more a painter than a player so I doubt I'll ever put the models on the table, and even then it will probably be using a skirmish style ruleset.

 

I enjoy colourful armies. One of the main reasons I get bored with large painting projects is that I find regimented colours a chore to paint. I'm looking for a Legion with lots of diversity in this regard. My initial thoughts were towards any loyalist Legions that had a reasonable number of Second Founding successors, as they could conceivably have their heraldry origins in the heresy. It's been a while since I followed the novels, but The Unremembered Empire had what appeared to be the origins of the Silver Skulls and the Scythes of the Emperor (if I remember correctly), so Ultramarines are tempting, as are White Scars.

 

On the Traitor side its much more complicated as aside from Legion rebranding e.g. Dusk Raiders to Death Guard the colours are again uniform. I'm tempted to throw canon to the wind and do Thousand Sons where each Psyker Cult has its own colour scheme that would blend in with the traditional red, gold, bone and silver. This could also give me another splash of colour by letting me add Tutelaries.

 

The last option is to go Knight Errant but again ignore canon and still have some way of representing the colours or heraldry of each Astartes original Legion. So basically proto-Deathwatch but with a white or grey base and additional Sigilite heraldry. There's also Blackshields I guess but I'm not exactly looking to invent entire colour schemes.

 

I guess I'm asking which one of these options breaks the canon least and would allow me to play with the least amount of hassle on the off chance I end up riding the Heresy train all the way to madness.

Sounds like the rules from the box would be perfect for you ;)

 

I'd say you could also get away with different heraldries for the Dark Angels, on the traitor loyal side. Different colours for Thousand Sons cults sounds cool. I think Emperor's Children might offer some personal heraldry opportunities, and we know of at least three official colour schemes during the Heresy for the Warhounds/World Eaters (blue and white, white and blue, white and red respectively, all very cool on their own and I imagine you could make them look very cool too when put together)

 

In any case, canon is very loose, especially when it comes to colour schemes. If you still feel restricted by them, you can still explore Shattered Legions which also offer space for mixing and personalising heraldry :) Finally, you can still go the 40k route and say they are all from different chapters (Badab War in particular offers some sweet loyalist on "loyalist" action)

 

tl,dr: To answer your final question, none of your options "break" the canon: if your gaming group don't like legions and chapters depicted exactly how they are in their personal head canon, just retort that even GW's official colour schemes are varied for a single force, and let them deal with it - it's not your problem: just focus on painting good looking models and I'm sure you'll be fine :)

 

ps: don't forget to share the finished results on the B&C :)

[Black Cohort]

Zond, I recommend you do a shattered legion force. It would allow you to paint all sorts of colour schemes, from standard legion colours, to personal heraldry of a charismatic leader or even a mix on the same model (say a shoulder pad repainted with the leader's symbol).

[Wayniac]

So I just pre-ordered Prospero and the two red books.  I think I know what Legion I want (Death Guard), but since I'm indecisive like that can I get a brief rundown of how the following legions play, just to make sure (otherwise I'll change my mind and never actually get anything done):

 

1) Iron Warriors; I love their backstory (I wrote a poem about it!) and general "no nonsense" view although painting silver got really annoying, but their rules seem mediocre at best and they seem to want a ton of heavy firepower (read: lots of expensive tanks and such).  Also I don't really like the battle automatons and even Perturabo himself looks impressive but doesn't jump out to me (although it's not likely I'd field him anyways)

 

2) Death Guard; this is the one I'm leaning the most towards because something seems really cool about having big blobs of Marines marching across a zone, their background was pretty cool and I have some very Nurgle-y ideas for other games and it would be cool to stick with that theme (yes I know they haven't fallen to Nurgle in 30k yet) across all my gaming.

 

3) Sons of Horus; I like the color scheme and cool "barbaric" look they have going, and Horus is of course amazing, but they seem fairly basic, and after reading the first three HH novels they didn't seem as awesome anymore (but that might have been because I don't like Loken).

 

Personality wise, I like tanky (I played tanks in MMOs for years), and I like to be thorough with what I do.  Like, let's say a world is rebelling and my forces are dispatched to deal with it.  The world refuses to surrender after being ordered to.  My answer?  Poison their water and/or air supply, laugh and then send down my forces to clean them up, and wipe them out as an example to others.

[Sete]

Well I did it. Bought the 2 red books.

And I'm taking Alpha Legion. ;)

Edited October 25, 2016 by Sete

[Trokair]

Which Legion would you all recommend for a shooting Infantry Army?

 

I have 2 Prospero Boxes, and was planning on assembling 40 marines as tactical for two big squads, and the 5 men with Plasma, 5 with Missile Launchers.

 

Not sure what to do with the last 10, 5 Heavy Bolters and 5 Meltaguns? Or combi weapons or flamers.

 

Also not sure what to assemble the 10 terminators as yet either. Was thinking two squads, one with Heavy Flamer and one with Autocannon, both squads with one chainfist, one powerfist and 2 with lightning claws.

 

Anyway, I would like to field a mostly infantry force, with maybe some dreads in support.

 

So what Legion is suited to fielding mostly infantry without tank support?

[ThatOneMarshal]

So your looking for a shooting army that's mostly infantry eh, well we've got the imperial goats and ultramarines if you want a more generic army that doesn't rely on a particular ROW. The fists have veterans with bs 5 sniper bolters and better heavy weapon teams, the ultramarines are more Msu oriented and can make any unit have preferred enemy in the shooting phase. There is also the sons of Horus, who are more of a close assualt kind of shooters.

 

If your wanting ww1 esque shooting gunlines that have the big guns then you've got the death guard with their heavy weapons teams in troops slot thanks to the reaping. For the iron warriors youve got the ironfire where you can throw accurate artillery like there is no tomorrow. You are also immune to moral caused by shooting and you've Got access to the tyrants, who are probalby one of the best terminator units in the game or iron havocs.

Edited November 6, 2016 by ThatOneMarshal

[Trokair]

Thank you

 

I was thinking less gun line and more massed infantry but not close combat orientated like World Eaters, Space Wolfs, Emperors Children and Night Lords presumably are.

 

I have been reading around both here and on the internet in general and Both Alpha Legion and Raven Guard look appealing for the mobility they give to infantry without needing tanks due to Infiltrate for their infantry.

 

While Iron Hands, help large squads stay alive and Iron Warriors and Salamander help squads stick around on the table.   

 

How well does infiltrate work for an entire army, do you just run out of places to safely place units or does it work in practise?

[Biscuittzz]

So I've picked up a BoC box and the RG upgrade kit with heads, torsos and shoulder pads. In addition i also bought a unit of legion destroyers and the MkIV command set.

 

My legion is Raven Guard but I know I'll get easily distracted only doing one, so I've decided to do another much slower on the side. For this legion I'll have the terminator captain, cataphractii terminators, contemptor and prob 5-10 MkIV marines of some loadout out of the BoC box, everything else is for the RG.

 

I'm inclined towards one of the more regal loyalist chapters with a vibrant colour ( black can get boring sometimes ), so that means Blood Angels, UM and Imperial Fists may be on the cards. I'm interested in a heavy infantry force that can also be backed by significant amount of armour/firepower.

 

So can anyone of you entice me towards your favoured legions .

 

Edit: The description of the force screams Iron Hands I know, but they're black so that's already out.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Biscuittzz

[ThatOneMarshal]

Thank you

 

I was thinking less gun line and more massed infantry but not close combat orientated like World Eaters, Space Wolfs, Emperors Children and Night Lords presumably are.

 

I have been reading around both here and on the internet in general and Both Alpha Legion and Raven Guard look appealing for the mobility they give to infantry without needing tanks due to Infiltrate for their infantry.

 

While Iron Hands, help large squads stay alive and Iron Warriors and Salamander help squads stick around on the table.   

 

How well does infiltrate work for an entire army, do you just run out of places to safely place units or does it work in practise?

Okay so if we are looking at less of a gunline, that means that we should leave out the Iron Warriors then, a lot of their army is kinda immobile. 

 

The Alpha Legion and Raven Guard are a much more alpha strikey army due to their ability to inflitrate. They are both very powerful due to that. Both Legions are good at drop pod assualt as well. Of the two the Raven Guard are more assualtyand they have better special units. The Alpha Legions special units are middling to bad. I would try to go ask some questions in the tactica page for more answers.

 

So I've picked up a BoC box and the RG upgrade kit with heads, torsos and shoulder pads. In addition i also bought a unit of legion destroyers and the MkIV command set.

 

My legion is Raven Guard but I know I'll get easily distracted only doing one, so I've decided to do another much slower on the side. For this legion I'll have the terminator captain, cataphractii terminators, contemptor and prob 5-10 MkIV marines of some loadout out of the BoC box, everything else is for the RG.

 

I'm inclined towards one of the more regal loyalist chapters with a vibrant colour ( black can get boring sometimes ), so that means Blood Angels, UM and Imperial Fists may be on the cards. I'm interested in a heavy infantry force that can also be backed by significant amount of armour/firepower.

 

So can anyone of you entice me towards your favoured legions .

 

Edit: The description of the force screams Iron Hands I know, but they're black so that's already out.

 

It really depends on what kinda force you want. Do you want to be fast and be good at shooting? Then Alpha Legion, White Scars, Blood Angels, and White Scars are for you. Do you want to be flexible force that is jack of all trades? Then you'll want the Imperial Fists or Ultramarines. Now I know you said regal but the Iron Warriors might fit what you are looking for. Their special units can throw out a lot of firepower and you can use them as loyalists with Kyr Vhalen or Narik Dreygur. 

[Fireborne]

How's it going battle brothers and sisters? Loyal Salamanders player, approaching 5k collection mix of foot slogging and armored company. Used B&C for years, but only recently linked account XD. Anyway, time to choose a traitor! Narrowed down to world eaters vs iron warriors. Love fluff for both. Up til book 6 I think I would have said IW had more potential, but WE buffs very welcome (Gahlan Surlak!?!) I've had this debate in my head for months and thought some fine like-minds would help with fresh perspective! :D

[Ave_Dominus_Nox]

Long time lurker, infrequent poster here. With the Release of BaC and BoP I'm very much jonesing to get into the heresy. I've narrowed it down to a few legions, and am torn between a couple of different things. I've tried to sort everything into categories based on these four criteria:

1. I like hard hitting, alpha striking forces that go straight for the throat.
2. I also really like mass infantry grinding the opponent down till nothing is left.
3. I really like to have at least some melee elements in my lists (or at least things that can multi-task i.e. Veterans, Tacticals w/ extra ccw, Leviathan Dreads).
4. I like armies that fight dirty/have an ends justify the means attitude (be it underhanded tactics, "forbidden" weaponry, etc.)

With that in mind in the legions I've narrowed it down to are these, I'm just having trouble picking one (and I really need to stick to one, or I'll never get anything done):

1. Night Lords, Sons of Horus, World Eaters, Dark Angels
2. Death Guard
3. Night Lords, Sons of Horus, World Eaters, Dark Angels
4. Night Lords, Death Guard, World Eaters, Dark Angels

As you can see there's a lot of crossover between the categories. I'm not afraid of complex paint-schemes, I would like an army I can easily expand out to run multiple different RoW. I've been agonizing over choosing a legion for months now, and I simply cannot decide on my own. If anyone can help lend me some insight or point me in the right direction, please do! Thanks in advance frater!

Edited November 26, 2016 by Ave_Dominus_Nox

[ashc]

You look and sound as though you have sold your soul to the Night Lords Ave_Dominus_Nox so I would stick with them!

 

I like dreadnoughts, terminators, infantry and tanks and have never really liked fast elements (to the detriment of my tactics ;) ) and so when I've been looking at doing a traitor legion for the heresy I feel drawn towards Iron Warriors and Death Guard although I can't decide between which. Any suggestions?

[Victor von Doom]

Tyranical ancestor of Narthan Dume here.

 

Back into 40k and now scanning Horus Heresy at the B&C. Planning to get the red books, but I'm unsure about a legion.

I figure to go loyalist. Is there a legion that continues in philosophy with their 40k counterpart? Are they basically the same with all of the same toys?

Which differ the least?

 

I'm big on historical battles. Is there a loyalist legion involved in more noted battles than most? Are they all getting the same amount of campaign time?

 

I'd appreciate your input. Thanks.

[Doctor Perils]

I believe Forge World are trying to give as much screen time to all of the factions involved - they may not be quite there yet (some of the legions have hardly appeared at all for the moment), but I don't think they want to appear as doing any sort of favouritism.

 

In terms of which Legions ressemble their 40k counterparts in philosophy, they all do to some extent - however, a lot of the toys do change between the two settings, if only on an aesthetic level. Power Armour for one is generally marks II to V in Horus Heresy (some rare cases for mk VI, like the Raven Guard), and in general mkVI and VII in 40k (with smatterings of Heresy-era armour and mkVIII), and tanks are often portrayed in the Deimos pattern in Horus Heresy, rather then 40k's Mars pattern - in this case though, this seems to simply be an aesthetic preference, both patterns can be found in both settings in the fluff.

 

Other toys, like Spartans and Sicarans (new tank chassis for Space Marines) hardly appear at all in 40k - in this case they are "relics", and you'd need Imperial Armour books to field them, though be wary because some players refuse to play against Forge World units, despite Games Workshop having declared them official units. Ultimately though, these considerations are rarely going to help you choose one legion over the others. On the other hand, 40k toys like Stormravens and Centurions don't exist in HH.

 

If I were to try and steer you away from one loyalist legion based on your questions (as I suppose you are going to want to play in both settings with your army), it would be White Scars - they have the same philosophy of speed, however in Horus Heresy they use lots of Jetbikes, which don't exist in 40k, having been replaced with Attack bikes, that don't have exactly the same gear (ie TL bolters instead of heavy weapons)

You may also wish to stick to one of the legions whose colour scheme doesn't change much between the settings, which would discount Dark Angels and Space Wolves.

 

 

 

Have you also considered doing a traitor legion? Iron Warriors, Word Bearers and Night Lords all appear and act very similarly in both settings - what's more, as "Veterans of the Long War", you could say that your characters from 30k are still the ones that are fighting in your army in 40k.

 

 

 

 

If you want more help in deciding your legion, I think you'll have to furnish us with more information regarding your prefered play and paint styles, and if there are any legion philosophies you prefer over the others :)

[Victor von Doom]

Lord Thørn,

Thank you for the nice breakdown.

I've been scouring Black Library for the novels. Now I know I'll have to be conscious of armor mks. Tank models have been a guilty pleasure since childhood. Even if I never went 'full tank company' in 40K. Oddly, I never got into Imperial Guard.

 

I was very much into the Crimson Fists, back in the 'Battle at the Farm' days. Liked the imagery of a near beaten army fighting to the last marine against the horde of invading orks. Usually employed infiltrating light infantry, artillery, and hard hitting heavy weapons. The CF didn't have much at their disposal when their fortress monastery exploded. 

 

When the 3rd Campaign of Armageddon came, I crusaded with Black Templars. I joined the online U.S. forces at Hive Helsreach & Hels Highway. I picked them due to my fascination with Teutonic Knight Brotherhoods. Before 40K arrived, these were the historic core of my early historic wargaming. 

 

I was considering Dark Angels for their knightly imagery, but the monastic theme is an on/off thing with me. Not sure why.

Space Wolves allow for some interesting 'Nordic' modeling, not to be stereotypical. I'm not really a wolf guy. Dragons maybe.

Salamanders then? Not into all fiery. I'm also an ol' D&D gamer. I like variety in dragons. Although they do have the 'Champions of Humanity' vibe. 

Imperial Fists? It would complete my 'Dornian Trifecta'. Maybe too reminiscent of my old CFs. At the Battle of Terra, can't get more historical than that.

Iron Warriors are a consideration. All that 'Iron within, iron without'. Cold metallic merciless war machine villainy. And tanks.

Night Lords are another. Paint them red, combine them with a Blood Angels style and one can go full Vlad the Impaler. 

 

Hope this gives some insight.

[Doctor Perils]

Well if you're interested in the Teutonic Knights and Knights in general, Imperial Fists definitely sound like a possibility. Dark Angels in 30k are more into the knightly orders aspects then the secretive monastic orders of 40k, but both sides are still rather present (though other aspects, like the "first legion" and the Hexagrammaton are also more present in HH)

 

Space Wolves in HH are very much Space Vikings, not Space Werewolves. Dragons are indeed more of a Salamander thing, though I'm not too sure what you mean by "variety in your dragons" - like Chromatic/metallic dragons and such? If so, various companies or units could be modelled after different kinds of dragons.

 

If you're interested in going towards the VIIth Legion but aren't interested in taking up Crimson Fists again, I'd suggest steering away from Alexis Polux (the Crimson Fist) and look at other aspects the VIIth present - Pollux represents the bolter-bearing Astartes, the soldier-of-the-line, whereas the likes of Sigismund and Seneschal Rann (who has neither rules nor model yet) will represent the Knight orders aspect more, with a heavier close combat emphasis.

 

As you can tell from my Avatar, you can guess that I'd do all I could to recommend the Iron Warriors. But I shan't, because I don't need to - just look at that Iron Mask: what more do you need :devil:

 

If you're interested in going down the Vlad the Impaller route with red Night Lords, I'd seriously consider the Blood Angels themselves - after all, they are red, and you originally said you were interested in doing a loyalist legion. On the other hand, you could also look into bringing the "Order of the Dragon" to life under the Imperial Fists banners as well, since Blood Angel and Night Lord vampires aren't that original.

 

Hope that helps :)

[Victor von Doom]

Lord Thørn,

Hm, Hexagrammaton? Haven't come across that yet.

Yes, I was thinking of chromatic/metallic dragons.   And red Night Lords/Blood Angels vampires would be redundant. 

Alexis Polux is a playable model? Ooh. Temptingly retro. I did read about Sigismund here.

Polux, Sigismund, and/or an Order of the Dragon* . Hm, three possibilities with the same army.

 

Loyalists:

Imperial Fists 

 

Traitors:

Iron Warriors (Dorn & Perturabo are rivals)

(And yes, your Avatar is too cool for words. My Avatar may not be 40K, but I can appreciate a good Iron Mask   )

 

Two armies. I can work with that.

 

Thanks, you've helped more than you know.

Or was that just part of your cunning plan all along? 

 

* Reference: The Order of the Dragon (Latin: Societas Draconistarum, literally "Society of the Dragonists") was a monarchical chivalric order for selected nobility, founded in 1408 by Sigismund who was King of Hungary (r. 1387–1437) at the time and later became Holy Roman Emperor (r. 1433–1437). It was fashioned after the military orders of the Crusades, requiring its initiates to fight their enemies, in particular the Ottoman Empire.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Victor von Doom

[Doctor Perils]

Haha, pleased to be of service :)

 

For reference, the hexagrammaton of the dark angels is a holdover of the time when they were the only legion. In HH, they actually have six "wings" that are specialized in different ways - you know the ravenwing, deathwing has slightly different responsibilities, dreadwing is all about destructive artillery bombardment and wargear, then you have firewing, stormwing and ironwing iirc

[nusphigor]

Hello guys,

I used to play with an alpha legion army in 40k but i gree bored of their tactics and colour scheme, so want to change legions but i dont know which one to choose.

Could you guys help me please?

I like to field squads in rhinos backed by heavy support and tanks, sometimes elites. But i really dislike using fast assault units.

I dont mind psychic powers but i usually just use a captain.

 

:)

[Hydriatus]

Sounds like an Iron Warrior list is for you! Their Hammer of Olympia Rite pretty much gives you what you want!

[ashc]

I like similar styled armies, although I feel like the Death Guard also play in the same fashion... would this be a correct or incorrect assumption?

Edited December 1, 2016 by ashc