Carcharodons novel by Robbie McNiven

[b1soul]

Badab would deserve at least 12 novels...

 

It is epic

[Mellow]

Oh I don't know. It would reek of money making techniques and be elongating a story purely to hit a word count tithe as required by the BL of Man.

[RobMac]

Originally, assuming the Carcharodons were going to get a trilogy, I'd flirted with the idea of having the third book set during Badab (you'll noticed the strategic placing of Red Tithe date-wise). I then realised BL would probably want to lavish something a bit bigger on Badab. There's nothing in the works at the moment, but who knows, maybe someday. 

 

In the meantime, I've been thinking about pitching a Legends of the Space Marines novel about Tyberos, what do you all think 

[Runefyre]

  On 1/10/2017 at 12:27 AM, RobMac said:

Originally, assuming the Carcharodons were going to get a trilogy, I'd flirted with the idea of having the third book set during Badab (you'll noticed the strategic placing of Red Tithe date-wise). I then realised BL would probably want to lavish something a bit bigger on Badab. There's nothing in the works at the moment, but who knows, maybe someday. 

 

In the meantime, I've been thinking about pitching a Legends of the Space Marines novel about Tyberos, what do you all think 

Um......HELL YES PLEASE

 

pretty please

 

ps: I've got a copy of Red Tithe on order, I can't wait to read it!

[deathspectersgt7]

 Please .

[Kelborn]

https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder588/500x/35579588.jpg

 

Oh yeah...

[b1soul]

  On 1/10/2017 at 12:27 AM, RobMac said:

In the meantime, I've been thinking about pitching a Legends of the Space Marines novel about Tyberos, what do you all think :P

That sounds grand...perhaps you could also make Kor'sarro Khan interesting in another Legends entry

[HeritorA]

  On 1/9/2017 at 10:02 PM, Mellow said:

4-6 novels per story arc would be acceptable providing each story was released at every month

 

Nothing worse than waiting for a new story and having a month to digest a story line is quite useful

I think 6 books for a year period would be the best. 1 novel each 2 months:

1 book - rise of Huron to a chapter master.

2 book - raze of the Tithe fleet and first deals with comrades in Lamenters and Mantis Warriors. Inquisition arrive.

3 novel - first years of war. Fire Hawks, Howling Griffons, Novamarines badly mauled. 'That' incident. Executioners arrived for the rescue.

4 novel - Inquisition declare Astral Claws hereticus traitoris. Minotaurs to the rescue. Lamenters shattered. War escalates further. Carcharodons arrive - Tranquility campaign follows.

5 novel - 'Red Hour'. Battle for Pireius. Badab surrounded.

6 novel - Badab Primaris siege and end of Badab War.

 

And I do believe Robbie will do nicely for Carcharodons and Astral Claws

  On 1/10/2017 at 12:27 AM, RobMac said:

Originally, assuming the Carcharodons were going to get a trilogy, I'd flirted with the idea of having the third book set during Badab (you'll noticed the strategic placing of Red Tithe date-wise). I then realised BL would probably want to lavish something a bit bigger on Badab. There's nothing in the works at the moment, but who knows, maybe someday. 

 

In the meantime, I've been thinking about pitching a Legends of the Space Marines novel about Tyberos, what do you all think 

Tyberos an  awesome idea. Plus we still need at least a glimpse of Badab War ;)

[Kelborn]

That's one of the few times I totally agree with you, Heri. ;)

 

Let us spread the idea of a Badab series until BL reacts and commissions it. :D

[HeritorA]

  On 1/10/2017 at 9:20 AM, Kelborn said:

That's one of the few times I totally agree with you, Heri.

 

Let us spread the idea of a Badab series until BL reacts and commissions it.

I do hope in case of Badab War - BL will listen to us. It is less than Scouring, but much more epic than Age of Apostasy.

[RobMac]

BL aren't against the idea of Badab, it's just with The Beast Arises having just finished and the Heresy approaching its finale there's no need for it at the moment. Maybe someday, but it'd be in future years.

[HeritorA]

  On 1/10/2017 at 5:07 PM, RobMac said:

BL aren't against the idea of Badab, it's just with The Beast Arises having just finished and the Heresy approaching its finale there's no need for it at the moment. Maybe someday, but it'd be in future years.

Heresy approaching it's finale? Really??? Robbie please do not joke so - we all know that the cow still has a lot of milk. We still have at least 3 years of HH ahead, lol.

[Mellow]

I'd go so far as to say that the world will run out of paper before the HH series has finished being flogged. Some of the novels are just beyond pointless. All I wanted was a 12 book series of the whole Heresy. One book a month ... sure the books would be longer and that but at least it would be readable. The HH will never be considered a mass market series for people just to get into it because who wants to read 50 odd novels just to get to the end!

 

It's such madness it's heresy!

[b1soul]

After the Heresy, I'd like the following

 

More likely:

Scouring

Nova Terra

AoA

Badab

Black Crusades 1 to 12

 

Less likely:

Unification Wars

Great Crusade as a setting

Horus Heresy as a setting

 

Almost impossible:

Dark Age of Technology

 

This would be like Dune's Butlerian Jihad prequel series or Halo's Forerunner prequel series

 

BL would need a good hard sci-fi writer who also understands the 40K setting (good luck)

[Augustus]

The Black Crusades would be an awesome series! Great idea b1

[Kelborn]

The Black Crusades will likely be touched upon with the coming Black Legion series.

 

Besides that, I sign b1s list. ^^

I'm more interested in the time between 30 and 40k than in the Unification Wars.

[helterskelter]

First things first. Robmac. This is probably one of the best 40k universe novels I've read in a long time. Purchased yesterday, and I've read from 6.30 this morning til right now. I literally could not put this book down.

Great balance between the action scenes and the quiet scenes, I really got into the battles that were going in.

I love that all the old tech made its way into the novel in its various forms too.

Next up a small gripe. If the Carchadorons put such stock in being exiled nomads, they follow the codex to a reasonable extent it seems in terms of their organisation, which means at some point in their history they must have returned to have the codex enacted upon them. Or corax had one of his moments on another group of his men post heresy and names were adopted.

Now back to the good bits.

I would like you to write a Night Lords stand alone novel for the guys that escaped or have them feature in another of your novels, not necessarily against the carchadorons. Failing that I'd like if you could write a night Lords novel end of. You've portrayed them superbly well, and as a night Lords fan I could not be happier.

Also your attrition rates for both sides were great, neither side coming out what could be considered 100% the victors but still having achieved something that was a goal to each side, just awesome.

 

Now gentlemen, Don your tinfoil hats, it's theorising time!!! (A sample of thoughts post read)

The Carchadorons, while mainly comprised of raven guard nomad predation fleet genestock, I also believe (more reinforced now) to contain Night Lord, world eater, and potentially alpha Legion stock.

I think Te kahurangi has night lord geneseed. I think this because he controlled the darkness in a way that blocked his night lord counterpart, and I believe brother to be literal.

I also think that it could be Sevatars geneseed:

1) Sevatar isn't found dead at the siege of terra as far as I know yet.

2+3) as he's not with the night Lords and believed dead, I believe he abandoned the war and found his way amongst the nomad predation fleets by making his way about the place, much like a nomad, and being a night lord, is pale. So the title, pale nomad, comes from him, and in being a psyker and long lived could have passed that on a little in his gene seed to a next generation psyker, who could utilise the geneseed better than he could thus improving and amplifying the psychic ability the sons of curze specifically are good at, whilst bringing something new to the mix, and being the one and only astartes psyker to have been in curzes head, inately pinched the power over darkness, which became the void.

I think the suits that the terminators are wearing are from red butchers from the world eaters. Some of them already come with maws designed on them, quick paint job and boom.

These may have come from the ship(s) that has the ursus claws that also made their way into the predation fleets via capture or defection.

I also think an alpha legionary at some point was involved in early recruitment practice that lead to designations as opposed to names, one that was just sick of the brothers shenanigans and made his own way out, maybe one of the older members of the Legion.

 

All in all 9/10, if I give you full marks then you can't give me more in your next work ;)

I hope there's time left you get to do at least a story for the heresy era

[RobMac]

  On 1/15/2017 at 1:16 PM, helterskelter said:

I would like you to write a Night Lords stand alone novel for the guys that escaped or have them feature in another of your novels, not necessarily against the carchadorons. Failing that I'd like if you could write a night Lords novel end of. You've portrayed them superbly well, and as a night Lords fan I could not be happier.

Don't tempt me   very glad to hear positive things from Night Lords fans as well though.

[GAZ_AV_NZ]

Cant wait for a new Carcaradons book

Let us know when u start one

Cheers

[Conn Eremon]

  On 1/16/2017 at 2:42 PM, RobMac said:

 

  On 1/15/2017 at 1:16 PM, helterskelter said:

I would like you to write a Night Lords stand alone novel for the guys that escaped or have them feature in another of your novels, not necessarily against the carchadorons. Failing that I'd like if you could write a night Lords novel end of. You've portrayed them superbly well, and as a night Lords fan I could not be happier.

Don't tempt me   very glad to hear positive things from Night Lords fans as well though.

 

 

They were honestly the more interesting faction for me, though I admit to more than a little bias. I most enjoy BL works that give me ideas for DIYs, and this certainly did.

[HeritorA]

  On 1/11/2017 at 5:05 AM, Kelborn said:

The Black Crusades will likely be touched upon with the coming Black Legion series.

 

Besides that, I sign b1s list. ^^

I'm more interested in the time between 30 and 40k than in the Unification Wars.

As A D-B said himself Black Crusades are 'epic' events in scale - the problem is we haven't seen that side of them - except for the old Gothic War and newly released Fall of Cadia. So here we hope to get truly terrific Black Crusade from him.

 

  On 1/15/2017 at 1:16 PM, helterskelter said:

First things first. Robmac. This is probably one of the best 40k universe novels I've read in a long time. Purchased yesterday, and I've read from 6.30 this morning til right now. I literally could not put this book down.

Great balance between the action scenes and the quiet scenes, I really got into the battles that were going in.

I love that all the old tech made its way into the novel in its various forms too.

Next up a small gripe. If the Carchadorons put such stock in being exiled nomads, they follow the codex to a reasonable extent it seems in terms of their organisation, which means at some point in their history they must have returned to have the codex enacted upon them. Or corax had one of his moments on another group of his men post heresy and names were adopted.

Now back to the good bits.

I would like you to write a Night Lords stand alone novel for the guys that escaped or have them feature in another of your novels, not necessarily against the carchadorons. Failing that I'd like if you could write a night Lords novel end of. You've portrayed them superbly well, and as a night Lords fan I could not be happier.

Also your attrition rates for both sides were great, neither side coming out what could be considered 100% the victors but still having achieved something that was a goal to each side, just awesome.

 

Now gentlemen, Don your tinfoil hats, it's theorising time!!! (A sample of thoughts post read)

The Carchadorons, while mainly comprised of raven guard nomad predation fleet genestock, I also believe (more reinforced now) to contain Night Lord, world eater, and potentially alpha Legion stock.

I think Te kahurangi has night lord geneseed. I think this because he controlled the darkness in a way that blocked his night lord counterpart, and I believe brother to be literal.

I also think that it could be Sevatars geneseed:

1) Sevatar isn't found dead at the siege of terra as far as I know yet.

2+3) as he's not with the night Lords and believed dead, I believe he abandoned the war and found his way amongst the nomad predation fleets by making his way about the place, much like a nomad, and being a night lord, is pale. So the title, pale nomad, comes from him, and in being a psyker and long lived could have passed that on a little in his gene seed to a next generation psyker, who could utilise the geneseed better than he could thus improving and amplifying the psychic ability the sons of curze specifically are good at, whilst bringing something new to the mix, and being the one and only astartes psyker to have been in curzes head, inately pinched the power over darkness, which became the void.

I think the suits that the terminators are wearing are from red butchers from the world eaters. Some of them already come with maws designed on them, quick paint job and boom.

These may have come from the ship(s) that has the ursus claws that also made their way into the predation fleets via capture or defection.

I also think an alpha legionary at some point was involved in early recruitment practice that lead to designations as opposed to names, one that was just sick of the brothers shenanigans and made his own way out, maybe one of the older members of the Legion.

 

All in all 9/10, if I give you full marks then you can't give me more in your next work

I hope there's time left you get to do at least a story for the heresy era

 

And again as A D-B said himself - Sevatar is dead, he did not survived the Heresy. 

From the point of what Robbie written - Carcharodons may have been created from the remnants of some nomad RG fleet. But with millennias running by they integrated a mix of WE, NL warbands/fleets; broken expeditions of Loyalist Legions  and even SM from newly created chapters during the Foundings.

Carcharodons is not a define 'Chapter' like Ultramarines, they are a conglomeration of leftovers.

 

  On 1/16/2017 at 6:06 PM, GAZ_AV_NZ said:

Cant wait for a new Carcaradons book

Let us know when u start one

Cheers

Hell yes. We need it ASAP ;) Now the long wait begins until the 2017 in earliest ;(

Robbie was able to show how different cultures/strategies are mixed into the sharks.

[helterskelter]

Until it's written down anywhere for the public to view, the exact scene in which Sevatar himself dies, I will not accept Sevatar is dead until I see it :p

We all thought loken was dead.

[HeritorA]

  On 1/18/2017 at 11:46 AM, helterskelter said:

Until it's written down anywhere for the public to view, the exact scene in which Sevatar himself dies, I will not accept Sevatar is dead until I see it

We all thought loken was dead.

Truth - they could troll us all and make something like:

'Sevatar dropped his chainglave and saw the corpses of his brothers, butchered by himself. 'Sevatar is dead' - he said' And follow-up trip to Titan follows

In some sense - Sevatar would be dead ;)

[Yogi]

I bought this book yesterday (from BL no best seller list for you). Just finished it now.

 

I enjoyed it.

 

Questions

  Reveal hidden contents

What is with the flashbacks? Both Cull and Space sharks have them. But I'm not sure of their narrative purpose. Kordi has them often If I recall. Imperfect hypno indoctrination? Or are they from the presence of the daemon (cull's seems to be)? Or just nothing, a reminder of the marines lost humanity.

 

I never really understood why it was so important to tithe this world in particular. Other than Skell, there is nothing really that amazing there. Just human trash and some arbites. The space sharks literally risk their lives to not damage the tithe. But surely there are other worlds they could plunder. One of the core fundamentals of of 40k is the nigh uncountable number of humans, most of whom will never be missed. So either they respect imperial citizens and only tithe scum (both Zabrak and the Mantis warrior homeworld in Badab) or everyone is scared of Tyberous and follow his commands to the letter. To add to this it seems like the first time they tithed Zabrak they took colonists not prisoners. So why not kill the night lords, go somewhere else and harvest up some other poor bastards the next system over. 

 

Kordi acts like if he was left behind, he would have to go hide and die somewhere he would never be found. Yet the Space sharks leave Rannick alive. Rannick who can then describe them to whoever comes after. I thought this was weird to be secretive and willing to die so the Imperium doesn't ever encounter you, but at the same time to leave servants of the Imperium alive who have encountered you. I dunno... terms of their exile I guess?

 

I felt the book painted them as Raven guard of terran stock descendants. I don't really understand other people's comments regarding that they are a mix of world eater and/or night lord stock, plus Raven guard. A lot of world eater behaviour is due to the nails. Night lords have excellent night vision, The Carcharodons seem to have normal Astarte vision. Is it wishful thinking or am I blind? They just seem like brutal terran Raven guard whose gene seed has degraded and developed some mutations. 

 

My only real criticism is one that applies to all BL books is that my eyes kinda glaze over during some of the pure combat bits where I am waiting for someone to win. 

 

My favourite part was Jarq or something like that the night lord leading the reject/survivor squad. The bottom rung of the war band. That is an idea that is cool to me. Even though the book says he wastes time killing those helpless people due to inexperience and blood lust; I wishfully think a marine like that, who is given :cuss all the time, simply does the absolute minimum and gives not one iota of a :cuss about the grand battle plan. Coolest character is him for me. 

 

Anyway those are my thoughts and question. Nice work RobMac

 

[Conn Eremon]

Some of those questions I think were answered within the book, or to me were implied at the very least.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The constant flashbacks were, to me, a weak point as far as how they were written, but if I'm remembering right the actual case of it was due to a degradation of their hypnodoctrination routines. The insistence and vividness of that particular Shark's memories leads me to think that it's much more than just an inadequate wipe of their past lives. That would imply these memories are present, but you'd still have the weight of time and experience burying them deep. It makes me think that maybe the practice of hypnodoctrination within this particular Chapter has degraded has degraded in such a way that not only are elements of their past lives remaining but that they are getting seared into their minds.

 

They've lost the ability to use it as a scalpel, so they hit you over the head with it as a hammer, which has an unfortunate side effect of nailing some memories down forever. I say that's a weak point, because I feel like I'm making an excuse to make it work. I get what it was being used for, and it didn't necessarily fail in its job, but it did feel out of place nonetheless. When I was reading it, I kept thinking that behavioral and mannerism call-backs would have been more effective than memories themselves. Less that his old memories remained and were periodically overwhelming him, and more that the process to remove his former life and identity was inadequate, and old traits are beginning to return.

 

 

As for why this world, I think it was because it's the (or a) world that they're allowed to tithe. I don't quite remember the details, but I thought it was mentioned that there right to the Red Tithe on this world was specifically granted to them. I can't quite remember who gives them this right, but I'm assuming right now that it was their Maybe-Corax father.

 

But that's why they're coming back to it. The Inquisitorial tidbits mentioned that previously the world was being colonized and mined, but then everyone vanished. And so the Imperium turned what was left behind into a penal colony/mining world. And towards the end, it seems like it'll again be repopulated as a prison world. It very well could be that this is a never-ending cycle for this planet and its inhabitants. Every few centuries, everyone is gone. Begin again.

 

 

And for Rannick surviving, you're right, that's not really made clear why. My assumption was that an actual Space Shark would be more damning evidence than a mentally-snapped mortal as to their existence. I think it's likely that Rannick will be not be able to provide any details specific enough to link back to the Chapter. While a Marine would leave equipment, iconography, and genetic material that could all be tested and potentially link back. I'm not so critical of this, because I really didn't get the impression by the end of this book that Rannick would be anything but servitor-material after this ordeal. If she even survives the debriefing.