Carcharodons novel by Robbie McNiven

[Kelborn]

Let the speculation begin! What is coming from the outer dark? ^^

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm reading traitor Blood Angels. Maybe a renegade successor? And the Carcharodons are coming from the outer dark to bring oblivion? misunderstanding from my side

Edited April 27, 2017 by Kelborn

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Traitor? Only thing I read from that was that there was some battle where BA/BA Successor were fighting Khornate forces, and the CA came in, kicked ass, and chewed many wads of bubblegum, saving the BA/BA Successors.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Apothecary Vaddon

[TheRealMcCagh]

  On 4/26/2017 at 11:12 PM, Apothecary Vaddon said:

Traitor? Only thing I read from that was that there was some battle where BA/BA Successor were fighting Khornate forces, and the CA came in, kicked ass, and chewed many wads of bubblegum, saving the BA/BA Successors.

 

What it sounds like to me as well. 'thus were Sons of Sanguinius bought respite' sounds like the Blood Angels (or a successor) were backed into a corner and the Carcharodons bailed them out.

  Reveal hidden contents

I wonder if they'll come to help Baal in one way or another, although that's Tyranids and this sounds like Khornate cults.

[Kelborn]

huh...makes way more sense than my suggestion. :P

 

I'll adapt to it.

[HeritorA]

  On 4/26/2017 at 8:57 PM, Kelborn said:

Let the speculation begin! What is coming from the outer dark? ^^

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm reading traitor Blood Angels. Maybe a renegade successor? And the Carcharodons are coming from the outer dark to bring oblivion? misunderstanding from my side

No they are not. It's Carcharodons who come to save BA besieged by their enemies and thus BA turned and with the pale ones destroyed the enemy.

[Roomsky]

Well, :cuss. Read the thread hoping I wouldn't be the only one to give this a less-than-positive review. Ah well, sorry Mr. Macniven, but hey, what good is praise without a little criticism? Like baking sweets without salt, I tell you what. 

 

The following review is of course my opinion, and is broken into sections for each area of content.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Characters

 

Having just finished the book, here are the names I can remember: Ke-Tahurangi, Cull, Skell, Shadraith, Sharr, and Rannik. True, these are the main characters, and probably the ones I should be remembering most, but every time the other Night Lords and The Other Carcharodons were active I was terribly bored, as I found most of them completely interchangeable. Much like the Blood Angels in Fear to Tread, most of each company here felt more a unit than a series of people, and I can't really let that go because I didn't care about any of them. The loyalists are gruff and the traitors are sadists, and that's about it, none of their idiosyncrasies struck me as ones their bretheren couldn't have had as well.

 

As for those I could remember, I found them pretty flat as well. Skell was a walking plot device, which was fine, but I actually liked him when the book began. As he lost his agency, however, he seemed little more than The Macguffin, and scarcely more interesting than some nebulous artifact ("Quick Sharr, we must get the rusty spoon of legend!"), let alone a human being. The rest I thought suffered mostly from being too out of focus for their own good. Certainly Sharr and Te have personality, but they really could have used much of the page-time occupied by their generic brethren. 

 

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/cc/ccfeed77403e5f558314b99cc59e12d661ea8fae5ca326d571eb47ef22fe4d2e.jpg

 

The exceptions are Shadraith and Rannik, both of which I enjoyed reading about immensely. I have to applaud Mr. Macniven for making both of these characters completely believable, and not simply 2 more in the ever-expanding tapestry of Black Library characters who are super special awesome even amongst their peers. Rannik acts as I would expect a human would in such horrifying circumstances, and her plight of first being ignored before being thrust into command is a compelling one, and very relatable for the sheer difficulty she has in the face of all the crushing adversity. As for Shadraith, it is a rare thing indeed to read about someone so caught up in their own hype they become a plaything to basically every party involved. So well done sir, I loved both the frequent snickering behind his back and his eventual karmic dispatching.

 

One minor gripe: not a fan of the character nomenclature. People are saying the Carcharodon names are derived from the culture they are based on, so I'll give them a pass, but with characters named Skell, Cull, Rannik, Shadraith, Vorfex, etc. running around in Zartak, it all got a bit over-the-top. Maybe some softer sounds for the people in The Outer Dark?

 

Prose

 

Very Thorpian, this prose. It is dry, to the point, and not particularly to my tastes, unfortunately. The utilitarianism means that in a book that I expected to be dripping with atmosphere, all the locales seemed rather bland. There are exceptions, which end up being frustrating because they only make me wish the entire book was as atmospheric, these being Rannik and co. investigating the Imperial Truth, Skell's fear when the power gets cut, and Rannik and the astartes navigating the sewers (the moral of the story is everything involving that poor arbitrator is golden). I could really feel the morbid setting in those scenes, but such feelings were few and far between. 

 

There's no real artistry with the written word here, and while it is certainly passable, I never really see why this would make a better book than say, a film or a comic. Character's internal thoughts are often thin, nothing especially mind-boggling is described, and the language chosen rarely matches the mood. A high standard, to be sure, but one met by many BL writers IMHO.

 

Plot

 

It's a little thin, but I liked it well enough. Though again, I feel the more personal scope of the story could have benefited from some stronger characters and a smaller cast. I appreciate the brevity of the action scenes, as they didn't seem to stretch beyond what was needed, and while I couldn't keep track of all the marines I do prefer POV action to sweeping descriptions that don't really mean anything, so good job there. I also enjoyed the interrogator chapter prefaces, as it definitely gave the air of "something horrible happened here".

 

Unfortunately, my lack of attachment to most of the characters made the tension that seemed to be the intent of most of the story fall completely flat. Cliffhangers and brief, violent scenes left me more frustrated than hooked, as my reaction to their likely deaths mostly amounted to "what a shame."

 

Conclusion

 

Honestly, this was a bit of a chore to get through. The plot and prose were serviceable, but they felt like they were making space for the interesting characters that forgot to show up for the story, so we got these people instead, whoever they were. There were bright spots, to be sure, but describing them as diamonds in the rough seems more than apt. My only remaining question is this: Rannik spinoff when?

[Sandlemad]

  On 4/26/2017 at 8:57 PM, Kelborn said:

Let the speculation begin! What is coming from the outer dark? ^^

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm reading traitor Blood Angels. Maybe a renegade successor? And the Carcharodons are coming from the outer dark to bring oblivion? misunderstanding from my side

 

It ties in with a particular mention of the chapter's role in the 7th Black Crusade in IA10.

 

"But there is an obscure reference to the Blood Angels being saved by an unidentified Space Marine Chapter of mysterious origin. Written within the The Canticle of Cassandria Lev - Vol. CVI is the eponymous Sainted Sisters' highly mythologised and oblique account of the wars of the 7^th Black Crusade. Within them is found mention of a "grey-clad" Space Marines Chapter who came from "The outer night" to aid the Imperium, and whose "Jagged maw did swallow the stars..." and whose "... black gaze did mirror the void of oblivion".

In the course of the canticle this Chapter's ships set upon Abaddon's forces following the disastrous defeat and routing of the Blood Angels at Midian and attacked the pursuing forces as Saint Lev writes: "... fell upon the servants of the skulled-one with great fury from the darkness, unseen as the beast that lurks beneath the black waters, death for death, blood for blood... thus were the Sons of Sanguinius bought respite, and did turn back upon their pursuers and so were the damned traitors of the false gods driven unto their ruin."

Images of these events can be found upon the walls of the crypt-world of Hypasitis created to house the honoured dead of that war, depicted in repeated fresco and bar relief, but curiously the faces of the intervening Space Marines there depicted are obscured with featureless disks of black obsidian."

 

It's a pretty evocative bit, would be interesting to see how it will lend itself to expansion into a novel, particularly as some other elements of the 7th black crusade - the bit about BA chaplain Jorus managing to wound Abaddon, the involvement of Khayon - have already been mentioned by ADB and have all the hallmarks of something primed for a future Black Legion novel.

 

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/7th_Black_Crusade#Midian

Edited May 3, 2017 by Sandlemad

[HeritorA]

  On 5/3/2017 at 8:36 AM, Sandlemad said:

 

  On 4/26/2017 at 8:57 PM, Kelborn said:

Let the speculation begin! What is coming from the outer dark? ^^

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm reading traitor Blood Angels. Maybe a renegade successor? And the Carcharodons are coming from the outer dark to bring oblivion? misunderstanding from my side

 

It ties in with a particular mention of the chapter's role in the 7th Black Crusade in IA10.

 

"But there is an obscure reference to the Blood Angels being saved by an unidentified Space Marine Chapter of mysterious origin. Written within the The Canticle of Cassandria Lev - Vol. CVI is the eponymous Sainted Sisters' highly mythologised and oblique account of the wars of the 7^th Black Crusade. Within them is found mention of a "grey-clad" Space Marines Chapter who came from "The outer night" to aid the Imperium, and whose "Jagged maw did swallow the stars..." and whose "... black gaze did mirror the void of oblivion".

In the course of the canticle this Chapter's ships set upon Abaddon's forces following the disastrous defeat and routing of the Blood Angels at Midian and attacked the pursuing forces as Saint Lev writes: "... fell upon the servants of the skulled-one with great fury from the darkness, unseen as the beast that lurks beneath the black waters, death for death, blood for blood... thus were the Sons of Sanguinius bought respite, and did turn back upon their pursuers and so were the damned traitors of the false gods driven unto their ruin."

Images of these events can be found upon the walls of the crypt-world of Hypasitis created to house the honoured dead of that war, depicted in repeated fresco and bar relief, but curiously the faces of the intervening Space Marines there depicted are obscured with featureless disks of black obsidian."

 

It's a pretty evocative bit, would be interesting to see how it will lend itself to expansion into a novel, particularly as some other elements of the 7th black crusade - the bit about BA chaplain Jorus managing to wound Abaddon, the involvement of Khayon - have already been mentioned by ADB and have all the hallmarks of something primed for a future Black Legion novel.

 

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/7th_Black_Crusade#Midian

 

 

We will see - but do not count on that

[malcharion]

Don't know if there is a better topic for asking this but what do you guys think of how the Sharks will acomodate with Robout authority ?

Will they go on with there own agenda and said "We owe you nothing and we have an exile shart to stick too, so get out dady smurf ! " or follow orders ? Or maybe both depending on the company ?

Maybe not the last one given that the Sharks seams to follow the lead of Tyberos When he is not butchering something around  ...

Let me know brothers ! ;)

[Kelborn]

Well, they already fought along many other chapters during the Badab War and followed orders. Therefore, I don't think that they'd say: "Srew you, RG. We're doing our stuff on our own."

 

Still, RG's return would nothing change on their status of being exiles. They would still wait until the Forgotten One reappears and fight in the darkness of the void.

 

Besides, do we know how long RG's return already lastet? He just came back and travelled to Terra. Most likely a couple of months and not entire years since his awakening, right? So I'd not assume that the entire Imperium knows about his return.

[HeritorA]

  On 5/7/2017 at 4:20 AM, Kelborn said:

Well, they already fought along many other chapters during the Badab War and followed orders. Therefore, I don't think that they'd say: "Srew you, RG. We're doing our stuff on our own."

 

Still, RG's return would nothing change on their status of being exiles. They would still wait until the Forgotten One reappears and fight in the darkness of the void.

 

Besides, do we know how long RG's return already lastet? He just came back and travelled to Terra. Most likely a couple of months and not entire years since his awakening, right? So I'd not assume that the entire Imperium knows about his return.

So far. We will see how it all progress farther on.

 

In particular of further Primarchs returning in W41K - I think Corax and Dorn story are already told and they should be left alone (dead in the warp).

As for the further loyal Primarch returning - we know that Russ and Lion are incoming. At some point Khan should appear - to help his sons defend Chogoris from Huron and eventually finish that duel with Mortarion, which he started at 'scars' once and for all.

 

By the way Kelborn - have you seen the 'hints' that Wraight left in 'Carrion Throne' as to the duel between Khan and Morty in Lion's spaceport during a Siege of Terra? It was mentioned through the eyes of Inquisitor who saw the statue of Khan battling some dreadful 'deathlike' figure with a scythe

[Kelborn]

Haven't read it by now. Got other stuff on my to do list, but thanks. That sounds more than promising. Another pro for obtaining a copy of Carrion Throne. :P

 

Chris just has to write that "final" showdown on Terra. There's just no other way possible...which I would accept. ^^

[HeritorA]

  On 5/8/2017 at 1:03 PM, Kelborn said:

Haven't read it by now. Got other stuff on my to do list, but thanks. That sounds more than promising. Another pro for obtaining a copy of Carrion Throne.

 

Chris just has to write that "final" showdown on Terra. There's just no other way possible...which I would accept. ^^

Indeed - And I want the Lion space counterattack to be fully covered by Chris ;)

[Kelborn]

Jesus Christ,

 

Rob is already halfway through the first draft. If he continues to write in that speed, we will end up with part 3 coming beginning of 2018...which is nothing I'd complain about as long as he keeps novel after novel after novel about our beloved sharks. :P

 

Or maybe something new? Something in the new setting maybe?

 

A Badab war adaption MAYBE? Here's still hope to see a Badab series. ^^

[1ncarnadine]

  On 6/13/2017 at 7:12 PM, Kelborn said:

Or maybe something new? Something in the new setting maybe?

 

It would be very, very interesting to see the Carcharadons of all chapters adapting to Primaris marine intake, if they even do at all.

[Kelborn]

He stated via fb that they will have their own bunch of Primaris Marines.

 

But he can explain it way better, right Rob? ;)

[HeritorA]

  On 6/13/2017 at 8:35 PM, Kelborn said:

He stated via fb that they will have their own bunch of Primaris Marines.

 

But he can explain it way better, right Rob?

Seconded - right Rob?

 

Plus before the Primaris who would be a focus now for a long time - can we have good old Badab war with 'normal' not-childish Space Marines? Please

[Kelborn]

Don't think that they will go all in with Primaris stuff for several reasons:

 

a) can be boring over time / oversaturation

b) BL & GW were known to have several plots / series running over the last years (TBA + HH + several Chapter arcs) at the same time

c) we will have a Black legion series, which might cover 10K years; this indicates their willingness to cover past events

d) Badab (and many other settings) are just too damn good to ignore

 

:)

[HeritorA]

  On 6/14/2017 at 9:33 AM, Kelborn said:

Don't think that they will go all in with Primaris stuff for several reasons:

 

a) can be boring over time / oversaturation

BL & GW were known to have several plots / series running over the last years (TBA + HH + several Chapter arcs) at the same time

c) we will have a Black legion series, which might cover 10K years; this indicates their willingness to cover past events

d) Badab (and many other settings) are just too damn good to ignore

 

Black Legion is a success cause fans gave Bowden a big credit of belief for the Talon of Horus and upcoming Black Legion. Cause Bowden done amazing HH and good w40k stuff in the past.

TBA was hit and miss - it has high 'episodes' and has 'ugly' episodes.

As for the other 'chapter arcs' sad that we probably will not see a logical continuation for Wraight's Space Wolves story. Cause in general if comparing to GS it's now old lore and partly retconned.

'Badab (and many other settings) are just too damn good to ignore' - EXACTLY!

[RobMac]

  On 6/13/2017 at 7:12 PM, Kelborn said:

Jesus Christ,

 

Rob is already halfway through the first draft. If he continues to write in that speed, we will end up with part 3 coming beginning of 2018...which is nothing I'd complain about as long as he keeps novel after novel after novel about our beloved sharks.

 

Or maybe something new? Something in the new setting maybe?

As you point out, Sharks 3 in early 2018 would rely on me not having any other BL writing projects ;) 

 

And yes, I've not had official word but as far as I'm concerned the Carcharodons will get Primaris. I feel like "no Mars Primaris, but they're given the ability to make them" is the right balance - allowing hobbyists to have Shark Primaris if they want, but not totally ruining the "outsider/exile" lore. This is just my personal opinion at the moment though, we'll see if/when it happens canon-wise. 

 

Anyway, I hope folks like the Ashen Claws...

[Kelborn]

ASHEN CLAWS????? :O :O :O

 

Rob, don't torture us with such a teaser!!! O.O

 

The Scouring of Nostramo is my favorite part in Retribution.

Damn. That could mean so much right now....

 

- Ashen Claws being linked with the Carcharodons

- a possible Ashen Claws story done by you

- some weird shenanigens I'd instanly love

 

:D

[Conn Eremon]

  On 6/14/2017 at 6:34 PM, RobMac said:

And yes, I've not had official word but as far as I'm concerned the Carcharodons will get Primaris. I feel like "no Mars Primaris, but they're given the ability to make them" is the right balance

I can wait for your book to see what the "official word" is on the Space Sharks, but for the sake of DIYs I would love to hear more about how the ability make Primaris is given and what it entails.

 

Can it be applied to existing Marines, for example?

[HeritorA]

  On 6/14/2017 at 6:34 PM, RobMac said:

 

  On 6/13/2017 at 7:12 PM, Kelborn said:

Jesus Christ,

 

Rob is already halfway through the first draft. If he continues to write in that speed, we will end up with part 3 coming beginning of 2018...which is nothing I'd complain about as long as he keeps novel after novel after novel about our beloved sharks.

 

Or maybe something new? Something in the new setting maybe?

As you point out, Sharks 3 in early 2018 would rely on me not having any other BL writing projects

 

And yes, I've not had official word but as far as I'm concerned the Carcharodons will get Primaris. I feel like "no Mars Primaris, but they're given the ability to make them" is the right balance - allowing hobbyists to have Shark Primaris if they want, but not totally ruining the "outsider/exile" lore. This is just my personal opinion at the moment though, we'll see if/when it happens canon-wise. 

 

Anyway, I hope folks like the Ashen Claws...

 

WOW WOW! Sharks 3 in 2018? That mean Sharks 2 in 2017? :)

Ashen Claws being linked with the Carcharodons written by you would be awesome!

[veterannoob]

Taking listener questions for Robbie for this book at his Dawn of War 3 novel for interview in 3 weeks-ish time :) DM or post here with a reply. Spread the word if you like. thanks!

[HeritorA]

  On 6/16/2017 at 3:26 PM, veterannoob said:

Taking listener questions for Robbie for this book at his Dawn of War 3 novel for interview in 3 weeks-ish time DM or post here with a reply. Spread the word if you like. thanks!

Done and done - please clarify then Sharks 2 will appear and what awaits Ashen claws hints ;)