IA Brief Mk2 - Follow on of a follow on...

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Hello again Liber!

 

To keep from getting cluttered and confused I'm starting yet another topic to deal with my latest DIY.

 

A tiny tad of refinement has been done. Nightrawen suggested listing off the characteristics of the Chapter and I've endeavoured to do that.

 

Although I haven't quite listed off 10 characteristics I wanted the chapter to exhibit as was explicitly stated, I've more rounded it into the IA general categories, to which I'll add some general characteristics afterwards.

 

 

Name: Black Guard (Working name, suggestions welcome. Simple is better).

 

 

Homeworld: - Seafaring culture.

                    - Raiding / Survivalist roots.

                    - Gothic / Ancient europe in aesthetic and ethnicity.

                    - Chapter takes the strongest from the various seafaring households.

 

Chapter Cult: - Preach the 'laws of the sea', essentially laws of warfare and survival as influenced by homeworld.

                      - Emperor is a man.

                      - Gothic 'barbarian' ritual face painting / blackening of eyes.

 

Organization: - Mostly Codex adherent (I say mostly as I prefer the use of the book as a guide, not a religious text).

                      - Mostly independent companies, harking back to raiding households.

                      (As an aside, any suggestions for who makes up their initial training cadre are welcome).

 

Gene Seed: - White Scars ( Iron Hands? As above aside, suggestions are welcome).

 

Modus Operandi: - Void combat focus, tying in to independant companies and homeworlds seafaring influence.

                            - When committed to surface ops, prefer fast moving mechanized warfare. Rhinos, Razorbacks and Land Raiders

                               revered, seen basically as each squads ship.

                            - Prefer CQB to long range duels when possible.

 

Colour Scheme: - Now this is something I hadn't thought of until recently. I've had it down to two different schemes and I'd appreciate

                             any input here.

                           - Colours either: - Light Grey one colour major, with sea green/blue pauldrons,red trim with black 'flashes'.

                                                     - Sea green/blue one colour major, (grey pauldrons?) black or red trim.

 

 

"There are no true trophies to gather, the victory itself is enough, the opponent left by the wayside your crowning achievement. Celebrate living to serve another day, your enemies are many and the night long."

 

-Brother Gothric, Sargent at Arms, 10th Company.

 

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As another aside, when I say ritual war paint and 'black flashes' on the armour, I'm speaking in reference to this kind of aesthetic.

 

 

 

 

Forgive me, I couldn't find a better image that easily represented what I was thinking in a quick google search.

 

Alright so beyond the brief overview there, a couple of basic characteristics.

 

Gruff in the way many Astartes are.

Unused to diplomacy in the traditional sense, flowery words and double talk beyond their wheelhouse, and do not tolerate it being thrown at them.

 

Prefer void warfare beyond most others. They prefer to take the fight to the enemy and disable them before they hit the surface if at all possible, they also enjoy making their kill on the enemies home turf, to them their ship is their pride and joy. To take the enemies ship apart from within is the greatest prize (obviously homeworld influenced).

 

Brawlers, not swordsmen, preference of using axes, bayonets and elbows, knees and fists.

 

They hold no secrets. Their history is open to any who ask, their defeats as well as their victories. They all weave the tale of the Chapter and it's saga. They believe a warrior should walk the line, the sea does not care whether you were just the raider or the victim, only whether you cling to your ship or fall in and drown.

 

Likewise they do not participate in the shadow wars of the Raven Guard and the Inquisition, for they do not believe it is their place.

 

 

Gruff. but not needlessly abrasive. Highly independent, but willing to work with others they respect when no other option remains. Will work at the request of the Inquisition and other bodies, but utterly unforgiving of being deceived, or used for a purpose that doesn't serve the Emperor.

 

 

 

I'm unsure of their signiature enemies or initial conflicts that would shape the chapter early on, if anyone has any suggestions I'd be all ears. My usual fall backs are Tau (I legitimately hate Tau) and Eldar (Craftworld, Dark, Corsair, you name it, I don't much like elves). Tyranids perhaps? Though I prefer an enemy that possesses rational thought, something to provide a true foil for the Chapter, rather than just an unending tide of bodies. Orks may be better, though they are very commonly used, with good reason.

 

For now, I'm tired and I'm going to head to bed. I may have missed some things, made mistakes or misremembered, or otherwise buggered this up in some form or other. However, if so, I'll fix it later.

 

I appreciate any input you have to give.

 

Thanks for your time!

[Lysimachus]

Hey GHY, nice to see you back around and working on stuff!

 

Nice start, few things to think about:

 

Have you remembered that there is a canon Chapter called the Black Guard, 2nd Founding RG Successor? Not a problem I suppose, but figured I'd mention them just in case...

 

I like the void warfare/being tied to their ships idea, but it does make me wonder how it works with having a Homeworld? Do they have a Fortress Monastery? Who gets left behind to protect it, do recruiting, etc? Unless the independent Companies take it in turns or something (maybe 10 years out of every 100?) could still do a certain amount of campaigning but have to stay relatively nearby?

 

Corsairs would be an interesting opponent and might be useable to explain their tactical preferences? (in that you could have it that the Administratum set pirates to hunt pirates?)

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Hey GHY, nice to see you back around and working on stuff!

 

Nice start, few things to think about:

 

Have you remembered that there is a canon Chapter called the Black Guard, 2nd Founding RG Successor? Not a problem I suppose, but figured I'd mention them just in case...

 

I like the void warfare/being tied to their ships idea, but it does make me wonder how it works with having a Homeworld? Do they have a Fortress Monastery? Who gets left behind to protect it, do recruiting, etc? Unless the independent Companies take it in turns or something (maybe 10 years out of every 100?) could still do a certain amount of campaigning but have to stay relatively nearby?

 

Corsairs would be an interesting opponent and might be useable to explain their tactical preferences? (in that you could have it that the Administratum set pirates to hunt pirates?)

 

 

Hmm, lots of good stuff here.

 

For the home worlds defense, the idea of the rotating companies is a good one and works well, I'll use that. I originally had the idea to have a fortress, but having a fortress, homeworld and being void-focused, therefore having powerful fleet assets all rolled into one is too much. An outpost on the homeworld to process, induct and train recruits, fine. Having a full blown fortress monastery is a bit much. The Company on protection duty should have a Battle Barge or two as adequate defense instead.

 

For the name, yeah I'd actually forgotten that chapter, thank you for the reminder. However, it was more of a placeholder name. If anyone has any suggestions as to what might fit better, I'd be grateful, I've had a bit of a mental block when it comes to chapter names lately.

[Olis]

Okay, stick with me here. Rummaging online led me to this little snippet on Lexicanum:

 

 

A unique formation within the Chapter are the Souldrinkers, Space Marine veterans that excel in close combat. These Marines are armed with power-swords and refractor fields and bear their own distinctive shoulder badges and honour banners. Another formation are the Cobra Squads, comprised of regular members of the Chapter's companies that have been equipped with jump packs.

 

True or not, seeing as your intended theme is aquatic, I don't think a direct use of 'Cobra' in there for the name works. But it did lead me on to sea serpents and other things. Name-wise, you could have:

 

Leviathans

Brotherhood of Lotan

Void Serpents

Void Dragons

Triton Brotherhood

Angels Serpentine

 

But those are just ideas trying to tie snakes with the sea. Another idea I had was to give the Chapter Master the title of 'Naja' (it's the genus of snakes known as Cobras). Food for thought.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

The names are all good Olis. Though to be honest I think I'm leaning away from aquatic animals as inspiration. Something more humanity-based. There are already the Space Sharks and the Iron Snakes and I think I'd rather steer clear of that side of the 'aquatic' tracks.

 

Sorry to throw all of your work out of the window!

 

One of the main problems I'm having name wise is - aside coming up completely blank that is - that all of the more common names to deal with these sea-raider types are commonly attached to renegade warbands: Reavers, Corsairs, etc.

 

It's something I'm yet to overcome, so throw more things at me!

[Ace Debonair]

With regard to the name, Hunters might work.

Hunters of [Homeworld], perhaps - it's a bit generic, but if their world has largely shaped the Chapter's nature then it seems a fitting title, and this Chapter seems the sort that would prefer an 'honest' name, one that tells you exactly what you're going to get without extra bells and whistles.

EDIT:

Early pictures removed to save bandwidth and preserve the B&C's essential goodness.

There isn't a proper sea-green preset on the painter, so this is the best I could do.

I'd lean towards the silver ones, as the green ones kind of remind me a lot of KHK's Astral Reavers, another Ocean-themed Chapter that I'm sure you recall.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Thanks for the input there Ace! You're always good for a bit of brainstorming aren't ya?

Also, thanks for putting in the work for the colour schemes there. I've found every time I get onto the painter I have a habit of, after a while, getting rather frustrated and closing the window.

The silver one reminds me a little too heavily of the Iron Snakes, to be honest. The green one I like, but the green could be darker, although it's starting to look more like the Sons of Horus colours, which I like to be fair but it might be a little bit unbelievable to have them coloured as such.

It's given me some inspiration to play around with the colours in any case.

In terms of the name, Hunters is fine. Void Hunters, Star Hunters, something something something... DARK SIDE!

Oh, wait, wrong universe. Their Emperor is false....

I'm going to take what you've given me here and run it through my own process. Thank you Ace, your assistance is always highly sought after and much appreciated!

[Ace Debonair]

Thanks for the input there Ace! You're always good for a bit of brainstorming aren't ya?

One tries one's humble best.

Also, thanks for putting in the work for the colour schemes there. I've found every time I get onto the painter I have a habit of, after a while, getting rather frustrated and closing the window.

The silver one reminds me a little too heavily of the Iron Snakes, to be honest. The green one I like, but the green could be darker, although it's starting to look more like the Sons of Horus colours, which I like to be fair but it might be a little bit unbelievable to have them coloured as such.

As a member of the Liber's Heraldry Department, I'm moved to ask:

How many loyalist chapters wear black in spite of the Black Legion being around?

Also:

Are those dark enough?

I'm going to take what you've given me here and run it through my own process. Thank you Ace, your assistance is always highly sought after and much appreciated!

Happy to help, as always.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Happy to help, as always.

Ace, you are a gentleman and a scholar.

As a member of the Liber's Heraldry Department, I'm moved to ask:

How many loyalist chapters wear black in spite of the Black Legion being around?

I'm really digging the Sons of Horus colour scheme more and more in my head, but there's something that's not quite there with it. Anyway, I'll mull on it some more and see what I come up with.

Your own colour pitches are good, but since your comment above I'm leaning even further towards the darker end of the spectrum for the SoH scheme.

Though I like the green and the red that you're putting together there, maybe I should take a leaf out of the Raven Guard's book and have a different coloured stripe on one pad for different companies. Since they're highly independent it'd be only fitting that they have their own heraldry of some sort. Would having an entire pauldron given over to the dedication to chapter AND company be too much I wonder?

Thanks again brother!

[Lysimachus]

Really like the dark SoH-style green, maybe a way to differentiate from the SoH would be to combine it with another main colour - either split scheme, quartered, or even head/pack/shoulder pads in the secondary colour. Depending how light/dark you went with the green, you could go for black/white as the other colour...?

[SickSix]

I know it's really generic but 'Void Raiders' might work?

I really like the space pirate theme. Have them use a lot of Power Mauls, because 40k needs more Power Mauls! I think those fit the brawler theme pretty well.

It does seem odd from them to have a homeworld and Fortress Monastery though. You have me thinking why there is so little mention of ocean based warfare in 40k. Other than the mention of submariner Land Raiders, I don't think there is any other mention of water based warfare in SM texts.

What if there Fortress Monastery was an Island or even a giant floating sea-base? Like an old re-purposed 40k sized oil derrick?

And why not a light blue scheme? Maybe not what I present below but I think a pale blue with proper secondary and tertiary colors could look great!

[Dosjetka]

Void Hunters sounds good.
Re: the colour scheme, how about a darker Sons of Horus green with grey arms? I'm on my phone so I can't whizz up an example but I can do that tomorrow if Ace doesn't beat me to it.
Instead of each Company having their own heraldry, how about each Company having a different colour/slighlty different design for the Chapter symbol? Sorta like the Salamanders (colour-wise).
Last but not least, why not have 0 presence on the actual planet but have an orbital base which is either artificial or built into a moon? Or perhaps you could even have a huge orbital station as your "home world" and instead of recruiting earth-bound humans you could get void born who are already accustomed to low gravity, in some cases the vagaries of Warp travel, etc. You could counter-balance these slight advantages by having them feel uncomfortable (but not unable) with fighting in higher gravity environments and a slightly lower induction rate (since the recruits won't be as tough and stocky as earth-bound ones).

Anyway, that's your day's share of food for thought. If I have anything else I'll make sure I pop by and share it here.

EDIT: Screw that; can't sleep so might as well do that colour scheme myself.

Hexes used: #34716c (green/armour), #CCCCCC (grey/arms), #cd7f32 (bronze/chest eagle), #a6a6a6 (silver/pipes and grille), #ED7B00 (orange/eyes), #4e4e4e (dark grey/soft armour, boltgun casing & markings).

EDIT #2: I've got some paints on the way to paint some Sons of Horus so I can easily whizz up a model with your colour scheme if you'd like, GHY, especially if it's the one I've suggested above. :P

[NightrawenII]

It does seem odd from them to have a homeworld and Fortress Monastery though. You have me thinking why there is so little mention of ocean based warfare in 40k. Other than the mention of submariner Land Raiders, I don't think there is any other mention of water based warfare in SM texts.

How many Xenoforms you know is aquatic in nature? Plus, if you have spaceship parked in low orbit you really can't be bothered to travel to that island by boat...

 

 

~ NightrawenII

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Aha!

*rubs hands together*

 

I like what I'm seeing here.

 

Really like the dark SoH-style green, maybe a way to differentiate from the SoH would be to combine it with another main colour - either split scheme, quartered, or even head/pack/shoulder pads in the secondary colour. Depending how light/dark you went with the green, you could go for black/white as the other colour...? 

 

 

I like where you're going with this, LySiMachus and it also dovetails in with what Dosjetka brought to the table above. It was a good idea and it's proven so right there.

 

I know it's really generic but 'Void Raiders' might work?

I really like the space pirate theme. Have them use a lot of Power Mauls, because 40k needs more Power Mauls! I think those fit the brawler theme pretty well.

 

 

I think I prefer Void Hunters overall, but it's the same theme.

 

I also like Space Pirates, ancient, barbaric space pirates even better. I do agree that more Power Mauls are needed in 40k, not sure how prevalent Power Mauls or their mundane equivalents would be amongst pirates in general terms though.

 

It does seem odd from them to have a homeworld and Fortress Monastery though. You have me thinking why there is so little mention of ocean based warfare in 40k. Other than the mention of submariner Land Raiders, I don't think there is any other mention of water based warfare in SM texts.

 

 

NightwaranII answered this fairly well, but it's basically the concept of Air Power. There's a good reason the face of naval warfare in general changed completely with the introduction of the Aircraft Carrier. Air power is king, there's no need to be a fat, slow target in the middle of a large ocean if you can strike from the air. The only use of amphibious warfare would really be the approach or assault of a stronghold with near impregnable air defenses.

 

What if there Fortress Monastery was an Island or even a giant floating sea-base? Like an old re-purposed 40k sized oil derrick?

 

It's not a bad idea, but I definitely think I'm moving more towards no fortress monestary at all. That said, it might be interesting to take that idea and integrate it with Dosjetka's, have it as a repurposed, fortified old asteroid mining headquarters or something in that vein, possibly.

 

And why not a light blue scheme? Maybe not what I present below but I think a pale blue with proper secondary and tertiary colors could look great!

 

 

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm just not the biggest fan of blue as a colour. The only blue I like is when it's painted on traditional Greek houses, when I'm in Greece. 

 

That's just me though, it might look great with the blue, but it's just not for me.

 

Void Hunters sounds good.

 

 

I think so too! Glad great minds think alike!

 

Re: the colour scheme, how about a darker Sons of Horus green with grey arms? I'm on my phone so I can't whizz up an example but I can do that tomorrow if Ace doesn't beat me to it.

 

 

I think that looks fantastic. I admit I'm not completely and totally sold on the grey arms but I'm pretty pleased with what you've whipped up there so far. I'll have to tinker with it. Though if anyone else has any input into this I'm happy to see it.

 

Instead of each Company having their own heraldry, how about each Company having a different colour/slighlty different design for the Chapter symbol? Sorta like the Salamanders (colour-wise).

 

 

Possibly, though I'm not completely sold. I suppose it would work, but what is the benefit over separate heraldry? More efficient use of space, probably. I suppose the benefit isn't really distinguished that significantly considering the benefit of separate heraldry isn't bringing much to the table in that regard, aside from more individuality.

 

Last but not least, why not have 0 presence on the actual planet but have an orbital base which is either artificial or built into a moon? Or perhaps you could even have a huge orbital station as your "home world" and instead of recruiting earth-bound humans you could get void born who are already accustomed to low gravity, in some cases the vagaries of Warp travel, etc. You could counter-balance these slight advantages by having them feel uncomfortable (but not unable) with fighting in higher gravity environments and a slightly lower induction rate (since the recruits won't be as tough and stocky as earth-bound ones).

 

 

Now, considering what I've said earlier, I quite like this idea, at least in terms of the fortress itself. The chapters recruiting policies could alter from a single world to multiple, but I'd say only if they actually lost their original homweorld, which is possible.

 

Honestly I wouldn't recruit void-born children at all, ever, because their muscle density would naturally be incredibly low compared to their planetside born cousins. As such they'd need more physical therapy to build the same muscle mass, if it's even physically possible, which wouldn't really be worth it considering the benefit or payoff for taking those types of recruits over the regular kind is so far as I can see, nominal at absolute best.

 

As much as it would explain their preferences of warfare, I don't logically see a reason they'd ever start doing this to begin with.

[Dosjetka]

Do you know what it is you're not convinced about colour scheme-wise? More grey/less grey? No grey at all? Perhaps replace the grey with beige/bone?

[Stercus]

With your nautical theme, have you considered using a name that reflects the elemental nature of the sea? Whenever I think of the ocean it's not the people or creatures that live there that I find most appealing but the sheer unconquerable mass of the sea itself. Maybe something along the lines of the storms or tides that can shape entire continents.

Tempest Wardens

Brotherhood of the Storm

Tide Reavers

Wave Riders

[Dosjetka]

If your Astartes enjoy war (as pirates often do and space pirates should), Tempest Hunters could work, too (because the hunt the tempest of war! ).

But yeah, I'm with Stercus on this one: think of the sea as an unstoppable force of nature and think less of what inhabits it.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Do you know what it is you're not convinced about colour scheme-wise? More grey/less grey? No grey at all? Perhaps replace the grey with beige/bone?

No I can't put my finger on it. I wouldn't go any more grey, possibly just darken it ever so slightly, though I'm not sure. I think it's the grey that's bothering me, but then I like it at the same time. Possibly it just isn't looking the right 'dark' enough all over. I was originally considering having them do ritual face/body painting, maybe something reflected on their battle armour, something dark, like jagged flashes of black to just bring everything down a little. As I said I'm not sure, it's more of a feeling than anything I can easily point to.

Sorry, I often get feelings about things and can't quite directly point to why I feel that way, but I've learned to trust my instincts and that's what they're telling me here.

I wouldn't go beige or bone, they'd look like a Dark Angels successor then and I'm not the biggest fan of the Dark Angels, to be totally honest.

Regarding names, I'll have to think a bit harder on it.

With your nautical theme, have you considered using a name that reflects the elemental nature of the sea? Whenever I think of the ocean it's not the people or creatures that live there that I find most appealing but the sheer unconquerable mass of the sea itself. Maybe something along the lines of the storms or tides that can shape entire continents.

Tempest Wardens

Brotherhood of the Storm

Tide Reavers

Wave Riders

I see what you're both saying. I think something with Hunters or Reavers or something would be good, I'll run through some suitable partners to it.

Though Wave Rider is a type of running shoe from Mizuno.... which would be amusing...