Blood Angel Tactical Squad Loadout

[Helias_Tancred]

Hello all. I've recently started building a Blood Angel army. I plan on running 3 tactical squads in my army. I know I want one of them to be a flamer tactical squad- heavy flamer, flamer, combi-flamer on the sergeant.

 

My question is about the other two squads? My standard loadout for my Crimson Fist tactical squads are the heavy bolter and plasma gun. I suppose the same would be decent on Blood Angels? I also thought since BA tactical squads might be used to charge more frequently, the heavy bolter and flamer would be a  good combo too? I also considered a multi-melta, melta gun, and a combi melta on the sergeant or gunslinging 2 inferno pistols for a tactical squad with good anti-armor?

 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Thanks.

[The Unseen]

I would consider putting a hand flamer instead of the combi-flamer on the sarge, you can shoot it more than once, and its pretty good. Especially if your planning on getting them into combat, as it gives him +1 attack with another close combat weapon.

 

For meltas your usually better off running assault squads, tactical squads are better in my opinion with anti-infantry guns. Put a mb on the tactical sarge if you might need to go tank hunting. Unfortunately heavy bolters are terrible, but plasma guns are always a decent choice if you have decent luck with them. If you wanted a mixed unit, a combi-melta/infernus pistol sarge, meltagun, and heavy flamer, with combat squadding, could be pretty decent.

[Ceril]

I always go with a heavy flamer. Any other heavy weapon and we have some other unit that's more suited to it. We have two good infantry hunting units: Dreadnought with a frag cannon&heavy flamer and then Tactical squads with heavy flamer.

 

You can opt for a razorback and a 5man squad, assault cannon on the razorback. Or a las-plas on the razorback. Both are good. If you go full 10 man tactical I'd still give them a full flamer loadout. Then most likely a drop pod, unless you need them to be the mobile scoring unit of your army, then I'd a bring a rhino. You could even razorback with a 10man squad and deploy 5 normal marines as back field objective holders and put the rest into the razorback for midfield pressure.

 

TL;DR Heavy Flamer

[the jeske]

grav+hvy flamer in a razorback, or just 5 man and a grav or 5 man with a flamer. Hvy bolters are a waste of weapon slot.

[Fahlnor]

Mine run heavy flamer, melta and combi-melta and come down in a Drop Pod. The other option I would heavily consider is heavy flamer, plasma and combi-plasma, probably also arriving via Drop Pod. The plasma fits perfectly with the shooting profile of the bolter.

 

The heavy weapon spot is a simple one for me: as has been said before, pretty much any other option can be done better by another unit. The heavy flamer isn't available to most of our other infantry units and it fits with a fast and mobile army better than the other options: you can fire at full effect even having moved and, having done so, you can still charge.

 

For me, Tactical Squads need to be mobile as they will very often need to shoot on the move. Our "chapter tactics" make us stronger on the charge and only then, so having the option to shoot and then charge is also important to me. Finally, I think our Tactical Squads have fantastic ability to take on infantry, which the heavy flamer is ideal for.

 

If I wasn't going to use a heavy flamer, I'd probably run a special weapon and a matching combi weapon and leave it at that.

[OPTIMVSCHRISTVS]

Seconded on the heavy flamer, melta, combi-melta. I've had great results combat squading them out of drop pods.

[sebs_evo7]

I started out kitting my tac squads and sgts with a lot of kit but now i keep them simple and cheap. Heavy flamer is the only heavy weapon i use and plasma is the only special i use. Grav goes on bikes and melta on assault squads. Just save those heavy bolters up for when we get them changed to salvo weapons

[Helias_Tancred]

Thank you for expanding my tactical squad loadout horizons ... gives me some new configurations to consider. 

[Xenith]

Heavy flamers are just the best, they gel so well with the tacticals role in the game that the other options dont really compare.

 

Now, when we get the option for grav cannons, or we get suspensor webs, those heavy flamers will have some competition.

[Indefragable]

I don't want to tell you what to do, but here are a few different configurations I use to give you some ideas:

 

A) 5x Tacticals, Heavy Flamer, Hand Flamer + Bolt Pistol on Sgt, Razorback with dozer and TL Assault cannon (or Lascannon/TL Plasma gun, verdicts not entirely out, but 4x AC shots meshes a bit better).

--I typically run this in a Baal Strike Force. As others have pointed out, the Hand Flamer and Bolt PIstol combo not only lets you shoot both weapons, but also gives you +1A in combat. I frequently have Assault Squads with Meltas in a Rhino right next door so the Tacticals are solely anti-infantry, which the 4x Assault Cannon adds extra support for.

 

B ) 10x Tacticals, Melta gun, Veteran Sgt with Combi-Melta and Power Fist, sometimes Heavy Flamer as well depending on points, in a Rhino with Dozer blade

--this one I often use for OBSEC Formations as the larger size and sight-blocking ability of the Rhino makes it more survivable and the Meltas/Power Fist gets them to fend off Dreadnoughts or other vehicles coming to grab the point. This is a bit more defensive setup that doesn't care about the +1I as much

 

C) "Tacti-Q." 10x Tacticals, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, 2x Hand Flamers in a Drop Pod. Pretty straight forward setup, clear-out the bubble wrap so a Meltacide Drop Pod can hit the armor.

 

D) 5x in a Drop Pod w/ either a Flamer or Heavy Flamer, and a Sgt with Hand Flamer or 2x Hand Flamers, depending on points

--This is the cheapest I try to run Tacticals, since if you want to really save points just get Scouts, WS3/BS3 be darned.

[appiah4]

I believe this matter has been debated to hell and back, but my personal pick is always either the Heavy Flamer or the Multi-Melta.  This is because BA Tactical Squads make very poor lone wolves and only excel within the army's general 24" kill range. Anything with longer reach is usually wasted as it lacks things that go with it to provide effective volume of fire at 36"+.  These weapons belong on fast chassis that can outmaneuver and outflank the enemy to take good shots (Predator Annihilator, TL Lascannon Dreadnoughts, TL Lascannon Storm Ravens etc.).  As a result, my Tactical Squads end up being mid-range fire support and support brawlers:

 

Loadout A (Fire Support): Grav Pistol, Plasmagun, Multi-Melta

Loadout B (Support Brawler): Power Fist, Meltagun, Heavy Flamer

 

A few notes: With the Grav Pistol availabe there is absolutely no reason to ever take a Combi-Melta on the Sergeant.  Plasmagun is hands down better than the Meltagun if you have any other melta weapon in the unit.  Multi-Melta is an incredibly dependable weapon for taking out AV13.

 

Both squads work perfectly with both Fast Rhinos and Drop Pods, but I usually go with Drop Pods because nothing's manlier than a score of armored space marines dropping down from orbit in a metal cage..These work best for me and I recommend both squads heartily.

[Xenith]

 

 

A few notes: With the Grav Pistol availabe there is absolutely no reason to ever take a Combi-Melta on the Sergeant.  Plasmagun is hands down better than the Meltagun if you have any other melta weapon in the unit.  Multi-Melta is an incredibly dependable weapon for taking out AV13.

 

 

Agree, but I don't get this sentence. They are for different things surely, or do you mean as a 12" AP2 weapon?

[appiah4]

 

 

 

A few notes: With the Grav Pistol availabe there is absolutely no reason to ever take a Combi-Melta on the Sergeant.  Plasmagun is hands down better than the Meltagun if you have any other melta weapon in the unit.  Multi-Melta is an incredibly dependable weapon for taking out AV13.

 

 

Agree, but I don't get this sentence. They are for different things surely, or do you mean as a 12" AP2 weapon?

 

 

I did not mean that it is a direct replacement.  I meant it as in, it's a better choice in every way, i.e. it offers anti armor, has similar reach, gives +1A, can fire multiple times.  It's an overall better choice that I would rather take in every situation.

[Jolemai]

So far, I have done more damage to a vehicle by throwing a krak grenade then I ever have by firing a grav pistol at one. Or do you mean the ability to munch through TDA when you say "anti armour"?

[appiah4]

So far, I have done more damage to a vehicle by throwing a krak grenade then I ever have by firing a grav pistol at one. Or do you mean the ability to munch through TDA when you say "anti armour"?

 

No I actually meant damaging AV11-12-13.  I find it's actually good at shocking, or peeling hull points off of armored units..  Maybe I'm just lucky.  I realize they are not can openers like melta, but if you're banking anti-AV on a melta pistol you are already in deep :cuss..  Other than the Melta rule, they are better all around than the Combi-Melta.. AFAIC.. :)

[CaptainHelion]

I've managed to immobilise a vehicle once with a grav-pistol, but it's reaped more than it's fair share of High Value Targets elsewise.

[The Unseen]

You must be incredibly lucky with your 6's on grav pistols appiah5. I would agree that an infernus pistol is usually superior to a combi-melta on my BA tactical sarges, (can fire more than once, +1 attack with most other ccws, only downside is reduced range) but a grav pistols best use is concussing a monstrous creature so you can punk his sorry with krak grenades and the like.

On the regards of the multi-melta, god does that thing need salvo rather than heavy. Right now the "heavy meltagun" is effectively a straight downgrade from a meltagun. Its effective range is 12", and you can't move first unless your relentless without firing snap shots. What a waste.

[Xenith]

So far, I have done more damage to a vehicle by throwing a krak grenade then I ever have by firing a grav pistol at one. Or do you mean the ability to munch through TDA when you say "anti armour"?

No I actually meant damaging AV11-12-13. I find it's actually good at shocking, or peeling hull points off of armored units.. Maybe I'm just lucky. I realize they are not can openers like melta, but if you're banking anti-AV on a melta pistol you are already in deep .. Other than the Melta rule, they are better all around than the Combi-Melta.. AFAIC..

Odd, you have to be incredibly lucky! Seeing as without a grav amp, the grav has identical performance against AV 10 and AV 14 always damaging on a 6. This makes it, point for point, better against AV14, where it has the same chance to damage as a combi melta at 12", and grav is as good as a bolt pistol vs AV10.

Against AV13 or lower, the melta needs a lower roll (5+ or better) to inflict a hull point on a vehicle, assuming it's still over 6" away.

Still, I use infernus pistols for trying to multi wound troops or an extra S8 hit on a transport where melta isnt really needed.

[Indefragable]

You must be incredibly lucky with your 6's on grav pistols appiah5. I would agree that an infernus pistol is usually superior to a combi-melta on my BA tactical sarges, (can fire more than once, +1 attack with most other ccws, only downside is reduced range) but a grav pistols best use is concussing a monstrous creature so you can punk his sorry with krak grenades and the like.

On the regards of the multi-melta, god does that thing need salvo rather than heavy. Right now the "heavy meltagun" is effectively a straight downgrade from a meltagun. Its effective range is 12", and you can't move first unless your relentless without firing snap shots. What a waste.

Please tell us how you use Multi-Melta during the course of a match. You are the second person I have ever heard of to use one, and the first was somebody who had only played like 5 games.

I don't mean to come off as a jerk (though I am a bit skeptical)...I genuinely want to know! If you have found a way to make it work please share!

[Xenith]

Did you quote The Unseen Instead of Appiah? The Unseen's post is about how bad multimeltas are.

[appiah4]

I don't use the Multi-Melta as an assault weapon, I never INTEND to use it as such so I never lack the option. 

 

The Multi-Melta is a great weapon to hold a spot after you take it.  That is why my Tactical Squads come in pods to support stronger units.  Tactical Squads drop next to ongoing engagements to assist and cover for units in jeopardy and continue to hold that portion of the map, presumably an objective.  In that regard, a 24" Melta weapon is a GREAT deterrent for a lot of ugly things.  Combined with the Plasmagun and a Grav Pistol, the unit has enough firepower to create a 24" kill zone that will make the supported unit's life a lot easier.

[evildrcheese]

As he said I can see MM working in drop pods. Drop in midfield Snapshoot on T1, then don't move and act as area denial. I still don't think it's good.

 

I like 5 man TAC squads in a las/plas razorback with plas and combi plas. In multiples.

 

You got fast (potentially ob sec) vehicles to provide los blocking for you assault elements and they can hit pretty hard.

 

Make a couple of them 10man, combat squad and have the heavy sat on an objective pinging shots where it needs to.

 

EDC

[appiah4]

Your Las-Plas Razorbacks are AV11 tincans with very pricy upgrades, and once that thing is busted the Tactical Squad you are left with is basically a sitting duck. 

 

There is something to be said about AV11 spam sure, but that works for Assault Squads, not Tactical Squads where they cost an arm, especially with such a pricy turret upgrade.

[CaptainHelion]

Where are you getting AV12 Razorbacks? Mine are AV11

[appiah4]

Where are you getting AV12 Razorbacks? Mine are AV11

 

Brain fart on my part..  I tried to ninja-edit it but you got me. :P