Tranc Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Hello, I was really disappointed with the Ultramarines Legion tactical markings and heraldry that was included in Forge World's Horus Heresy book V: Tempest. I think there was a missed opportunity. The purpose of this thread is to summarize what has been officially released, identify the inconsistencies and deficiencies, and then suggest a "fix". Before I begin, I would like to point out that the main reference for this discussion is pg. 84 of the Tempest book. Note that there are Ultramarines markings and heraldry photos floating around the internet from the 2015 Horus Heresy Weekender. These are different from what was included in the finished product, and should not be used as the primary resource. So what's in Tempest? The following is a text description of the markings shown on pg. 84 of the book: 1. Gold Death's Head with Wings on Blue Field - Chapter Master 2. Gold Ultima with Skull & Laurels on Blue Field - Senior Captain 3. White Ultima and Laurels on Blue Field - Line Captain 4. Gold Eagle Head on Blue Field - Invictarus Honour 5. Blue Ultima with Gold Edging on White Field - Legion Honour variant 6. White Ultima with Gold Edging on Blue Field - Veteran Legionary 7. Blue & Red Caduceus with Skull & Laurel - Medicae Primus 8. Blue & Red Caduceus - Legion Apothecary 9. Gold Ultima Bisected by Gladius - Breacher Sergeant 10. White Ultima Bisected by Gladius - Breacher Squad 11. Four White Arrows pointed diagonally on Blue Field - Assault Squad 12. Two White Triangles pointed horizontally on Blue Field - Tactical Squad 13. Gold Ultima Encircled with Lightning Bolts on Blue Field - Heavy Support Sergeant 14. White Ultima Encircled with Lightning Bolts on Blue Field - Heavy Support Squad (Specialist Weaponry) 15. White Upturned "V" on Blue Field - Heavy Support Squad (Armour Core) 16. Blue Trefoil Hazard Symbol on Black Field - Destroyer Squad Observations I. Gold implies seniority over white. E.g., a line captain wears white laurels on his shoulder, a senior captain has gold laurels; a white gladius denotes a breacher marine, a gold gladius denotes a breacher sergeant, etc. II. Laurels denotes captaincy in the legion, whereas in 40k it denotes veterancy. Inconsistencies & Deficiencies a. No attempt is made on pg. 84 of Tempest to distinguish between legion symbols that go on the left pauldron, and tactical markings that go on the right shoulder. b. Pg. 91 shows an Ultramarines legion destroyer bearing white laurels which should denote captaincy according to pg. 84, but it's referred to in the text as a "veteran's laurel". In the Betrayal at Calth booklet (the one that comes with the board game), pg. 40, it says "Veteran Ultramarines often add the Imperial laurels to their legion symbol." c. Also on pg. 40 of the Betrayal at Calth booklet, it says "a symbol bifurcated by a gladius is common among melee specialists". It does not specifically mention breachers, and would seem to imply assault marines. d. Also on pg. 40 of the Betrayal at Calth booklet, it says "heavy elements may adorn their legion symbol with stylised lightning icons." Note that it refers to legion symbol, not tactical marking. Suggested "fixes" to pg. 84 of Tempest Regarding (a) - we can take every shoulder pad that includes the Ultima symbol as being a variant of the legion symbol, and should be worn on the left shoulder. As a corollary, any symbol that does not include the Ultima must be a tactical marking to be worn on the right shoulder. So 2, 3, 5, 6, 9, 10, 13 & 14 are legion symbols. 1, 4, 7, 8, 11, 12, 15 & 16 are tactical markings. This scheme would be consistent with ( c ) and (d), but now we seemingly don't have a tactical marking for breacher squads. Pg. 89 of Tempest shows an example Ultramarines legion breacher. Notice the tactical marking on his right pauldron does not include a gladius. (It looks like a variant on the Assault Marine arrows.) Heavy support squads can still use (15) as a tactical marking. Regarding ( b ) - While both Senior and Line Captains wear the laurel, the symbols are not the same. Besides being different colors, the senior captain's laurels bears a skull, whereas the line captain's has a circle at the base. Even the leaves are different. The Horus Heresy Ultramarines Legion decal transfer sheet from Forge World contains both variations of the Ultima & laurel symbol (that is with and without skull) in both white & gold. The veterancy/captaincy inconsistency could be fixed if the line captain wore the identical legion symbol as the senior captain (i.e., laurel + skull), except in white instead of gold. We could then reserve the Ultima + laurels (no skull) for veterancy which would be consistent with 40K. (6) would still be an option for veterancy as well. We have only been discussing legion symbols for captains & veterans. Based on the fix for (a), no tactical markings for captains or veterans are included on pg. 84. The transfer sheet might have the answer: a skull with a half halo (looks a little like a centurian's helmet crest) could be the tactical marking for captain, while the skull without a halo could be used for veteran or command squad. Regarding helmets: pg. 85 of Tempest shows helmets for various ranks, including a transverse helmet crest for veteran sergeant. GW has, up until Betrayal at Calth, always reserved such a crest for the rank of captain. This goes along with the historical usage of the transverse crest by Roman centurions. Form wikipedia: "There is some evidence (Vegetius writings and some sculptures) that legionaries had their crests mounted longitudinally and centurions had them mounted transversely." For this reason, I like to stick with the 40k precedent, and use longitudinal (front-to-back) crests for veteran sergeants instead. (And note that the longitudinal crest looks a little like the veteran' sergeant's helmet stripe!) One final note: the novel Know No Fear (mark -108.56.13) suggest that there are also company symbols: "Both are grateful and proud to have been given places in 6th Company, to serve under Saur Damocles, and to etch - if only temporarily - the company's white figure-of-eight serpent emblem onto the blue fields of their should guards." I believe the serpent emblem is a reference to the Iron Snakes chapter, which Dan Abnett also wrote novels about. Ultramarines legion company/chapter markings have never been shown on shoulder pad designs from GW or Forge World, but I think its a neat idea. We only have a tactical marking for chapter master (1), so perhaps his legion marking at least could encompass a chapter emblem. 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Legatus Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 During 2nd and 3rd Edition, Chapter heraldry was fairly strict in some aspects, while allowing for some personalised honours. Since 4th Edition GW has loosened up the heraldic conventions of the Chapters quite a bit. I think the example pictures in Tempest are probably just meant as possible markings for those ranks, but not necessary the only or definitive ones. The 'Imperial Laurel' was described in 2nd Edition (Codex Ultramarines, p. 22) as an honour awarded for "acts of valour leading to great victory". So it would be appropriate for Captains or Veterans to wear a laurel somewhere, but not essential. In the 4th Edition Codex Space Marines (p. 71) of six shown examples of Ultramarine Captains' personal heraldry two include laurels while four do not. On page 70 there are a few examples for Ultramarine Command squad and Veteran squad icons that include laurels, but most of the examples for these squads do not include them. The 5th Edition Codex Space Marines (p. 23) also has the six examples of captain heraldry, two with laurels and four without. The 5th Edition Codex incidentally also includes a description of the 'Imperial Laurel' honour on page 22. This Codex also suggested that Veterans should be denoted by a painted on laurel, rather than just by white helmets. I would assume that it was merely unfortunate circumstances that all the examples for Captains in Tempest happen to include a laurel, but that it is not an essential part of a Captain's heraldry. The Ultima plus Gladius was previously used on some of the Tyrannic War Veteran models. So there is precedent for it being used in a more generic way for units that fight in close combat. (Tyrannic War Veterans are equipped with boltguns, and are used as "Sternguard" in the 5th Edition Codex Space Marines p. 114, but, being specialised in encounters with Tyranids, they are inevitably expected to fight them off in close quarters at some point. They also got close combat special rules like 'preferred enemy (Tyranids)' or the ability to use krak grenades in close combat.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320536-ultramarines-legion-heraldry-insignia/#findComment-4339999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lords of Preyspire Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 This is interesting, because in using bits to make my Locutarus Storm Squad and they have no official models for me to copy the shoulder pad marking. I was thinking about using the gladius. Flipping through tempest I see that the legion symbol on the Invictarus Centurion is on the other shoulder as well. He does have a very fancy left shoulder pad with a big eagle and a laurel that's nearly a U. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320536-ultramarines-legion-heraldry-insignia/#findComment-4445889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schultzhoffen Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I must be honest, I use use "official" insignia as a guide. After all, there were thousands of marines, surely insignia could differ? I go with what appeals to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320536-ultramarines-legion-heraldry-insignia/#findComment-4445911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lords of Preyspire Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Yes I think that is a wise choice. I just have this nerdy voice in my head whispering mad things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320536-ultramarines-legion-heraldry-insignia/#findComment-4445980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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