IA: The Stonebound (2016)

[Ace Debonair]

-= IA: The Stonebound =-

" I will have war unending, until the halls of Kharabor are ours once more! " - Chapter Master Dhorin Ironshield.

-= Chapter History: An Age of Stone =-

"Swiftness alone cannot win this war. Patience and Strength will guide our path to victory." - First Chapter Master Zidor Khan

* Early founding. 4th? 5th? Something like that. I'd like the Stonebound to be an old Chapter.
* Initial, broad objective is to stomp the heck out of an ork empire festering in Segmentum Pacificus.
* The Stonebound take Kharabor (Mountainhome) as a homeworld, and entrench themselves against the massing Ork threat, whose inhabitants call them the 'Stone Giants' for their impenetrable armour. Inspired, the Chapter names itself the Stonebound.
* After surviving the initial greenskin attack, the Chapter goes on the offensive.
* The orks are dug in quite well on their worlds, and fast attacks prove less effective at destroying them than slower-paced but heavier assaults.
* The Stonebound reclaim many worlds for the Imperium, and their heroic exploits earn them the favour of many allies - Regiments, local AdMech, Ecclesiarchy and so forth.
* The Stonebound establish underground fortresses on these liberated worlds, and use them as a combined fortress and treasury - the Chapter is prone to mining up the rare, useful metal named 'Stormsilver' when they get the opportunity. Stormilver is only found in large quantities in this particular sector, and The Stonebound are loath indeed to share their prized hoard of it with anyone.
* Eventually the highly successful Stonebound become more isolationist in nature, quick to distrust others and assume any offer of help is a ploy to gain access to their numerous treasuries. Their old friendships with others fall by the wayside and are eventually all but forgotten.

* Millennia later, at the start of M39, the Stonebound are spread thinly across their claimed territories, and are completely unprepared for the return of the Waaaaagh. Innumerable orks run rough-shod over the sector, fighting through the Stonebound through sheer numbers. Chapter-held worlds fall all over the sector, including their homeworld, Kharabor.

* The Stonebound, now outnumbered and desperate, rally at a planet called Irol, formerly one of their recruitment worlds, and once again hold off the Ork attacks, with heavy losses.
* Irol, renamed Kagara (Keystone), becomes the Stonebound's new homeworld.
* Since that time, all the way up to 'modern' 40k, the Chapter is fighting a war against time, rebuilding itself as quickly as possible so they can take back Kharabor before the Orks ruin it completely or another Imperial faction reclaims the world and the treasures stored within.
* This is by no means a guaranteed success. The greenskin hordes swarm as thick as flies around most of the sector, and every battle costs the Stonebound more lives they cannot afford to lose. Though some of the younger elements of the Chapter insist they must look to rekindle their old alliances, the Chapter's leadership struggle against their own inherent prideful, unyielding nature.

Pictured to the left is the heraldry of a typical Stonebound battle-brother. Pictured to the right is the heraldry of the 'Redshields', or First Company.

-= Homeworld =-

"'Tis but a humble place, compared to the halls of our fathers." - Captain Dagrim Stonereaver, First Company

* Fomerly Kharabor, a world of hills, forests and valleys dominated by great, ornately built cities and the Stonebound's nigh-impentrable mountain fortresses and underground vaults, which I must make sound utterly magnificent.
* Kharabor and the surrounding sector at large are rich in 'Stormsilver' and the Stonebound use it for magnificent weapons and armour that demonstrate their excellent craftsmanship as well as acting as symbols of wealth and power.
* The loss of their homeworld (and much of their 'domain', along with most of the Stormsilver) has such a profound effect on the Chapter that even those Stonebound who have never seen Kharabor yearn to reclaim it, at any cost.

* Now the Chapter's Homeworld is Kagara, a steeply mountainous world with an elliptical orbit that is much warmer underground, prompting semi-subterranean civilisations who live underground in the winter.
* These migratory clans have lots of deadly wildlife (and each other) to fend off and make for a source of good recruits.
* The clans forge axes as a coming-of-age ritual/rite of passage (one side of the axe is typically a mining pick, might or might not make it into the IA)
* The Stonebound build their monastery in one of the deepest and sturdiest caverns, and are fairly distant from the clans when not conducting recruitment trials.
* Stormsilver in the Chapter's possession is now sometimes referred to as 'The Bones of Kharabor'. It's only added to weapons and armour in extremely limited quantities, and is seen as transforming the Bones of Kharabor into the instruments of it's reclaimation.

-= Beliefs =-

Excerpt from the Legacy Saga

The world was young, the stars were clean
No wounds upon the sky were seen
Our Lord sat not on Golden Throne
But boldly strode the Earth alone
His lightning sword did strike his foes
His power and his banner rose
He brought together tribe and clan
To help reforge the worlds of Man
With potent seed and twisted gene
He then brought forth the Space Marine
And twenty Sons, great warriors all
In the golden times, before the fall...

...But shadow flickered past the glow
As forces Man should never know
Did twist and plot and cast their schemes
And whisper to His Sons in dreams
That they would be used and cast aside
Used to build the Emperor's pride
To make a realm for Him alone
To dictate to from Golden Throne
While those for whom his cause had fought
Would wither, die and be forgot.

They took these whispers deep to heart
and foulest Chaos took their part
The works that took so long to make
Took little enough to break
Foul Horus, once his Son most dear
Betrayed Him out of treachery's fear
And Son fought Son on Terra's soil
Those who once had been most loyal
Destroyed all that they had kept
And on his throne, the Emperor wept

But grief could not stay His might
Nor darkness hide the Emperor's light
His mighty sword did sweep away
The treacher of his Sons, and they
Did flee in terror through the sky
And hide in places low and high
But hiding did avail them nought
And so they reaped what they had wrought

Interr'd within the Golden Throne,
Sealed in halls of steel and stone,
In Terra's halls he guides us still,
A ruler, strong of mind and will,
The Emperor, who by thought alone
Will rise again from Golden Throne!
And lead us to a future bright
And bring to Man eternal light!

And we, descended of his line,
His legacy, for all of time,
The sons of Khan, the sons of war,
We, the Stonebound - Evermore!
We will answer to your call,
Hail the Emperor! Lord of all!

"That which does not kill us will live to regret their failure" - old Kharabori folk saying.

* The Stonebound are quite different from other Scars successors. The influence of their former homeworld is quite strong in the Chapter.
* However, recruits are still taken from any clan and put into mixed squads rather than sorting them by clan.
* Forging an axe is a rite of passage for new battle brothers, taken from Kharabori clan traditions.
* After losing Kharabor, forging with Stormsilver slowly takes on aspects of a ritual, with recitations of oaths of vengeance, pledges to the Mountainhome, and prayers to the Khan and The Emperor.
* Librarians in the Chapter are known as Sages, and are in charge of the Grudge Stones.
* Grudge Stones record the names and deeds of the Stonebound's most notable enemies, and can only be broken when the enemy in question is slain. To bear grudge stones is a mark of shame for a Company, and the breaking of those stones is cause for celebration. Those hunting a foe listed on the Grudge Stone often mark the stone with their blood, as the Grimdark equivalent of shouting 'It's On Now'.
* The Stonebound strongly venerate the Emperor and the Khan. They take immense pride in their lineage and history.
* The Stonebound believe that they were always in the right to lay claim so many worlds, because they are of the line of The Emperor, the Great Uniter, and they seek to bring humanity together under His rule once more.
* That said, the Stonebound have become largely bitter, paranoid and isolated since their younger days, with many of their old alliances having been gradually ignored or discarded by the Stonebound at the height of their glory.

-= Combat Doctrine =-

"We will give as many lives as it takes, until Kharabor is ours." - Brother Zelek Stonehewer

* Initially the Stonebound used fast attacks like most sons of the Khan, but not as much anymore: Instead, they use a slower, more methodical approach that has proven effective against the ork empires they've faced.
* Said approach is influenced firstly by the rough terrain and the innumerable warhosts of the foul greenskins, and then is later enforced as a tradition.
* But, strategic flexibility is still very much a key thing for the Chapter. There's enough bikes, aerial forces and assault units that moving slow and shooting is far from their only option.
* For instance, fast attack doctrines are still commonly used, but as support for the main assault rather than as the core of the attack.
* The Stonebound do use Dreadnoughts, although not everybody in the Chapter is comfortable with it. Those that are ok with Dreads see them as walking links with the Chapter's history and symbols of great honour.
* Possibly include something about an iron talisman that is worn around the neck of those willing to become Dreadnoughts if the worst should happen?
* Shown to revere the warrior within the dreadnought rather than just the machine.

-= Organisation =-

"The ways of our ancestors endure, just as we do." - Sage Varkand Flamebeard

* Codex organisation. Can't see any reason to change from it, to be honest.
* Obviously depleted a bit in number, rebuilding a Chapter takes time after all.
* First company has their own heraldry and seldom operates as a whole company, instead assigning squads to work with other companies.
* Members of the 'Redshields' First Company get given a plain red shield, which over time is engraved with personal heraldry and other details. When a 1st company veteran dies, the shield goes on the walls of the Fortress Monastery.
*More recently, Reserve Companies have seen a lot more action since the Chapter is still under-strength.

-= Geneseed =-

"The lineage of the Emperor will not be broken, come what may." - Apothecary Barburn Brightaxe

* White Scars Geneseed. No notable changes or deviations.
* Heightened aggression as is common with sons of the Khan. Unknown if related to the actual geneseed or just inherited from the surly Kagaran/Kharabori population, but it's not enough of an issue for it to be a problem.
* It is not uncommon for Stonebound to memorize the lineage of the geneseed they bear until they can, by memory, trace their descent back to the Khan and the Emperor.

-= Battlecry =-

"Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken!"
or, more recently,
"For Kharabor!"


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

EDIT:
Outline updated on 23/3/2016, for the Mountainhome!

Added 'Stormsilver' stuff, replacing 'greed for relics' with 'greed for rare metal', which is pure, undiluted Dwarvishness.

Removed Chaplain and Techmarine involvement in forging; consensus opinion is that that's too much like the Sallies.

Ritualised forging is now reserved for when Kharabor Stormsilver is being used in the act of forging, and even then only after losing the homeworld in the first place.



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
So I read the 'Liberalia Martiale 2016' thread, and...Well, here we are again.
Hopefully everyone's not too tired of me failing to deliver with these guys.

Especially because I recently figured out what I wanted from the Stonebound: MOAR TOLKIEN.
More specifically, I wanted an analogue for the quest to reclaim the Lonely Mountain to be the Chapter's immediate future.

So there's going to be less subtlety and more greed, more pride (especially in their heritage), and more stubborn disavowment of these flaws by the Chapter at large.

I also want their mission to reclaim Kharabor to be THE goal for the Chapter, something that shapes their very personality, and almost every facet of the Chapter is coloured by their yearning for their old homeworld.

See, the Stonebound don't want their homeworld back. They need it, with an intensity that's rapidly approaching unbridled obsession. For some of the Chapter, it is because they pine for the Chapter's lost glory days, and long to rise up once more. For others, it is because they greedily yearn for the lost treasures of their ancestors, and for others still it is simply because Kharabor is their true home. But the main reason, the one all Stonebound can agree on, is that losing their homeworld to the dirty greenskins is an irrevocable stain on their honour, and the honour of their ancestors.

And that blow to their pride is terrible enough that they will risk everything to avenge it as soon as they think they have a real chance of success, which is going to be any day now (in-universe).

I'm keeping the grudge stones and the "Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken!" battlecries though, because they're both amazing ideas. Oh, and the Legacy Saga sidebar, obviously. That probably goes without saying, but hey ho.

As always, all shades of opinion are welcome, be they scornful mockery or polite approval.
C&C is especially welcome, 'cause I bet there's a whole bunch of problems with this Chapter that I haven't foreseen. Again.

[Olis]

C&C is especially welcome, 'cause I bet there's a whole bunch of problems with this Chapter that I haven't foreseen. Again.

I'll cut you a deal: I C&C yours, you C&C mine. Ya dig?

[Ace Debonair]

C&C is especially welcome, 'cause I bet there's a whole bunch of problems with this Chapter that I haven't foreseen. Again.

I'll cut you a deal: I C&C yours, you C&C mine. Ya dig?

These terms are acceptable.

Point me to your topic of choice, and I shall see what can be done.

EDIT:

No wait, I think I found your topic. The Inheritors, right?

[Olis]

These terms are acceptable.

Point me to your topic of choice, and I shall see what can be done.

Excellent. Let the C&Cing commence! Well, maybe tomorrow, actually, it's getting late. :P

[Firepower]

Mountainhome- love it.

 

Imperial relic rediscovery- hmmm.  I'd be careful there.  Aside from being a tiny bit cliche, what would you find in the wake up an Ork presence that wasn't thoroughly defiled, ransacked, disassembled and coated in no less than 3 layers of defecation?  However, I also understand that this is somewhat important to creating their covetous, dwarf-like paranoia and isolation.  If I think of a smoother way to make it happen, I'll let you know.

 

Grudge stones- a good blend of the dwarf theme and Scars' vindictive culture.

 

I like the dreadnought dogtag.  As a technicality, where do they get the dreads, if the parent chapter doesn't have any to bequeath? 

 

Tracing geneseed and intense veneration of the Chapter's lineage as a whole is another good dwarfy tie in, and makes sense.

[Ace Debonair]

Mountainhome- love it.

100% directly looted out of Dwarf Fortress, and I'm not even slightly sorry about it.

Imperial relic rediscovery- hmmm. I'd be careful there. Aside from being a tiny bit cliche, what would you find in the wake up an Ork presence that wasn't thoroughly defiled, ransacked, disassembled and coated in no less than 3 layers of defecation? However, I also understand that this is somewhat important to creating their covetous, dwarf-like paranoia and isolation. If I think of a smoother way to make it happen, I'll let you know.

Yeah, I know. It's a weak link, really, but I can't think of a good alternative. They need to be greedy about something.

I could invent a Warboss who wants to be like the Ork version of The Emperor, who collects Imperial loot as a means of emulation, but that's a crude, awkward solution with as many questions as answers.

Grudge stones- a good blend of the dwarf theme and Scars' vindictive culture.

I wish it had originally been my idea so I could take credit for it!

That's the Liber's genius at work - I'd never have thought of it myself.

I like the dreadnought dogtag. As a technicality, where do they get the dreads, if the parent chapter doesn't have any to bequeath?

Having been around since the 4th or 5th founding gives the Stonebound plenty of time to win a favour or two from the AdMech before they go all paranoid. I can make a point of it somewhere in the IA if needs be.

Tracing geneseed and intense veneration of the Chapter's lineage as a whole is another good dwarfy tie in, and makes sense.

Many thanks! I thought it'd be a nice bit of extra flavour.

EDIT:

Excellent. Let the C&Cing commence! Well, maybe tomorrow, actually, it's getting late.

I like that even grizzled Liber veterans still think sometimes I'll do the sensible thing and get some sleep before I start C&C-ing, despite nearly seven years of experience to the contrary.

Nevertheless, there is wisdom in your words, and I'll make a second run on the Inheritors on the morrow.

[Dizzyeye01]

Perhaps something to think about is how the Waaagh managed to beat back the Stonebound even though they (at least to me) developed through their initial contact s they managed to push them out. Did the Waaagh change tactics? Is this an entirely different Waaagh? Perhaps to can show the pride in the Stonebound by their refusal to change their own tactics even though they had before. Even in the "present" they could still be fighting as they have for centuries due to them refusing to believe that the tactics need to change.

 

Also I think it might be overboard to say that one artifact is one of the big artifacts Vulkan hid away. Just saying powerful technology would be enough, which leads me onto something else; what's the view of the Mechanicus on the Stonebound? Because it doesn't sound like a healthy one to me if the Stonebound are telling them they can't have anything. After all, especially ilwith the chapter hit hard, it would be as costly thing for supplies not to show up.

[Ace Debonair]

Perhaps something to think about is how the Waaagh managed to beat back the Stonebound even though they (at least to me) developed through their initial contact s they managed to push them out. Did the Waaagh change tactics? Is this an entirely different Waaagh?

I'm currently thinking of just having immeasurable numbers of orks. Quantity has a quality all of it's own and all that.

With the Stonebound spread thinly to try and protect too much ground, numbers and aggression could easily take a merciless toll on the Chapter.

Does that seem like a workable idea?

Perhaps to can show the pride in the Stonebound by their refusal to change their own tactics even though they had before. Even in the "present" they could still be fighting as they have for centuries due to them refusing to believe that the tactics need to change.

That would be delightfully ironic since they originally won against the orks by changing their methods of warfare.

I'll definitely consider it!

Also I think it might be overboard to say that one artifact is one of the big artifacts Vulkan hid away. Just saying powerful technology would be enough

Agreed.

I'd like to have something tied to the Salamanders' quest, but on reflection having part of one of the relics seems a bit much.

Maybe just some kind of old Legion armaments, or a banner, perhaps? Or possibly a data-slate that has pict-captures of what might be a treasured relic of Vulkan?

which leads me onto something else; what's the view of the Mechanicus on the Stonebound? Because it doesn't sound like a healthy one to me if the Stonebound are telling them they can't have anything. After all, especially ilwith the chapter hit hard, it would be as costly thing for supplies not to show up.

I think initially the AdMech and the Stonebound would be quite friendly, until the Stonebound come over all greedy and paranoid. After that the AdMech would largely be confused by the rash, jealous actions of these foolish meatbags and take a more distant stance, with greatly limited interaction.

Certainly I'd expect the Stonebound to try and extend the olive branch before they attempt to retake Kharabor, but I might make that such a recent development that there's currently no word on if there has been any reconciliation.

I'll certainly think more about this when I'm expanding on the Chapter's history, for definite.

[Lysimachus]

Always nice to see you working on these guys Ace, they're by far one of my favourite DIYs!

 

Looking good so far, the only thing that jumped out at me was the timing of the Ork resurgence at the start of M.41, seems to me that you could make that a little earlier (not by a massive amount, but maybe late M.38/early M.39?) just to give a touch more time for the worlds in question to forget about the Stonebound fortresses built on them. Especially given that the Chapter is so old, 4th/5th Founding would put you somewhere around M.32/33 (if memory serves) which leaves plenty of time for the expansion of their empire.

 

Also, giving it a little more time of their current diminished situation would add to the grimdarkness of the whole thing, i.e. they've now been struggling for some time to regain what they'd lost, with as many failures as successes? Maybe even at this point, Imperial observers are starting to suggest that their goal is a lost cause...

[Ace Debonair]

Your points are good, Lysimachus, and well-made.

I've updated the Outline again to address a couple of points, so hopefully it's an improvement!

I begin to think more than 50% of this IA is going to be the History section... which is, thematically, all kinds of appropriate.

I'm also glad you still like the Stonebound, despite me not writing up a proper IA for them since... well, too long ago!

[Olis]

Part one of two. The next installment will be tomorrow because I'm a slacker.

* Early founding. 4th? 5th? Something like that. I'd like the Stonebound to be an old Chapter.

I think you could be quite broad with your 'Early Founding' catchment. Possibly with an upper limit of the 7th Founding, I reckon. By the time of the 7th, there has been multiple Black Crusades, we've seen the Beast arise, the Primarchs disappear and a further entrenchment of the Ecclesiarchy as a power bloc within the Imperium. Any of these could potentially be good jumping off points.

* Initial, broad objective is to stomp the heck out of an ork empire festering in Segmentum Pacificus.

* The Stonebound take Kharabor (Mountainhome) as a homeworld, and entrench themselves against the massing Ork threat, whose inhabitants call them the 'Stone Giants' for their impenetrable armour. Inspired, the Chapter names itself the Stonebound.

* After surviving the initial greenskin attack, the Chapter goes on the offensive.

* The orks are dug in quite well on their worlds, and fast attacks prove less effective at destroying them than slower-paced but heavier assaults.

* The Stonebound reclaim many worlds for the Imperium, and rediscover many Imperial relics in the possession of the leading Orks, which the brutish greenskins kept as trophies. (MAYBE something that MIGHT be a part of one of Vulkan's legendary relics?)

* The Stonebound establish underground fortresses on these liberated worlds, and use them as a combined fortress and treasury - storing the relics reclaimed from the Orks in their depths, unwilling to forfeit their treasures to others, even their rightful owners.

* Eventually the Stonebound become more isolationist in nature, quick to distrust others and assume any offer of help is a ploy to gain access to their numerous treasuries.

Some things I would like to examine - 1) Do the Chapter rename themselves the 'Stonebound' or maybe use it as a colloquialism? Because, if I'm not mistaken, Chapters are given their names from the outset.

2) I notice that they have dominion over multiple worlds at this early juncture - this is quite unusual for a Chapter. Is there an explanation for this? Is it some sort of appropriation of the idea of Black Templars keeps? In which case, does the detail further enlighten the reader to the character of the brothers in the Chapter? Would the IA lose something necessary if this detail was not there? How would the article change if you had to edit this part out?

3) Vulkan's relic. I believe the possibility of a relic from another primarch being associated with this (White Scar derivative) Chapter is probably introducing an unnecessary element into the mix. It draws away from the overall setting and theme, imho. There's always a vast myriad of other relics that could be found instead.

* Millenia later, at the start of M41, the Stonebound are spread thinly across their claimed territories, and are completely unprepared for the return of the Waaaaagh. Chapter-held worlds fall all over the sector, including their homeworld, Kharabor.

*Millennia.

[/captionleft]

While I like the standard scheme, I think the 'Redshields' need to be... redder. Either by pigment or by coverage of the colour. Or both.

* The clans forge axes as a coming-of-age ritual/rite of passage (one side of the axe is typically a mining pick, might or might not make it into the IA)

So... pickaxes, then?

Also, I think the sidebar might start with "the world" rather than "the word". I could be wrong though. It also intersect with the Combat Doctrine and the Organisation headers. You may want the half-headers for that.

* Forging an axe is a rite of passage for new battle brothers.

*Forging is considered a sacred art, and is often done as a group activity with Chaplains reciting litanies and Techmarine supervision.

These are oddly Salamander-y traits which you are giving your White Scars successors. Are there any hints or cultural cues that you could tie these points in better with their lineage, if only superficially? I get that the Chapter is supposed to be dwarf-themed but do you think it is possible to lean away from influences that steer the reader too far towards a differing primogenitor?

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Wowee isn't this a blast from the past!

 

I love the Stonebound, very awesome chapter. They were around when I was designing my Blazing Sons and I probably drew a little of the Sons dour, pragmatic to the point of fatalistic influence for them from the Stonebounds dwarven roots.

 

Before I delve into the meat of the now returned Stonebound I'd prefer to touch on a couple of things that I noticed.

 

* The clans forge axes as a coming-of-age ritual/rite of passage (one side of the axe is typically a mining pick, might or might not make it into the IA)

 

 

Now bear with me here, what about a Pick-Hammer? They were designed as bludgeoning/piercing anti-armour weapons and it seems like you'd be getting the best of both worlds, if perhaps you'd have to come up with a slightly different name for them. Just a thought.

 

I do agree it's a little bit Salamanders, but I don't think it's a problem, it just needs to be written around, perhaps not make it resemble the drakes ritual quite so much. A bit of creative licence to work around it would be fine I think.

 

 

I do love the Tolkien inspired roots, it's a great and relatively untapped source for a Space Marine chapters.

 

* Possibly include something about an iron talisman that is worn around the neck of those willing to become Dreadnoughts if the worst should happen?
* Shown to revere the warrior within the dreadnought rather than just the machine.

 

 

I like this a lot. I'd like to see more on it, as it's quite unique really.

 

I'll see if I can grab a little more and post some actual criticism rather than just praise.

 

Great to see these guys back!

[Ace Debonair]

* Early founding. 4th? 5th? Something like that. I'd like the Stonebound to be an old Chapter.

I think you could be quite broad with your 'Early Founding' catchment. Possibly with an upper limit of the 7th Founding, I reckon. By the time of the 7th, there has been multiple Black Crusades, we've seen the Beast arise, the Primarchs disappear and a further entrenchment of the Ecclesiarchy as a power bloc within the Imperium. Any of these could potentially be good jumping off points.

Hmm. I already have an 8th and a 9th founding Chapter, so I think I'd like to skip and break things up a bit.

The 6th Founding could work, though.

Some things I would like to examine - 1) Do the Chapter rename themselves the 'Stonebound' or maybe use it as a colloquialism? Because, if I'm not mistaken, Chapters are given their names from the outset.

I'm of a mind that Chapters name themselves when they find one they like, as that makes more sense than inventing another name just for the sake of changing it immediately when the Chapter grows into it's own identity.

2) I notice that they have dominion over multiple worlds at this early juncture - this is quite unusual for a Chapter. Is there an explanation for this? Is it some sort of appropriation of the idea of Black Templars keeps? In which case, does the detail further enlighten the reader to the character of the brothers in the Chapter? Would the IA lose something necessary if this detail was not there? How would the article change if you had to edit this part out?

Your questions answered in order:

1] Yes, it showcases the Chapter succumbing to their greedy nature by staking claim to many worlds.

2] Yes after a fashion, because the Stonebound are looking to stake a permanent claim to these worlds and want to defend their territory.

3] Absolutely. Greed and duty with only a blurred line between them? Very dwarfy.

4] I'd lose most of the later history, so... yeah.

5/6] I'd lose the greed, both by losing them taking many worlds for their own and by having numerous buried treasure vaults, the ability to have another,lesser world on standby for when Kharabor falls so they can constantly be reminded of what they've lost, the race against time to reclaim their worlds before other nosy factions stick their oar in... virtually everything I like about the new outline, in fact.

3) Vulkan's relic.

Already gone!

* Millenia later

*Millennia.

Dang it.

[/captionleft]

While I like the standard scheme, I think the 'Redshields' need to be... redder. Either by pigment or by coverage of the colour. Or both.

Ah... too late for that, I'm afraid, I've already made a squad of Redshields.

In fact, one of them's my profile pic, not that you can see his shoulders much.

* The clans forge axes as a coming-of-age ritual/rite of passage (one side of the axe is typically a mining pick, might or might not make it into the IA)

So... pickaxes, then?

A pickaxe spike on one side, and a single-headed battle-axe blade on the other. Like the Dwarf Axes from Discworld, 'cause Terry Pratchett is The Man.

Also, I think the sidebar might start with "the world" rather than "the word". I could be wrong though. It also intersect with the Combat Doctrine and the Organisation headers. You may want the half-headers for that.

Good eye, that man.

It's meant to be 'world', and I haven't spotted that mistake in years.

However, once I write up the IA, there'll be more space between the headers, so I might not need to change the headers just yet.

* Forging an axe is a rite of passage for new battle brothers.

*Forging is considered a sacred art, and is often done as a group activity with Chaplains reciting litanies and Techmarine supervision.

These are oddly Salamander-y traits which you are giving your White Scars successors. Are there any hints or cultural cues that you could tie these points in better with their lineage, if only superficially? I get that the Chapter is supposed to be dwarf-themed but do you think it is possible to lean away from influences that steer the reader too far towards a differing primogenitor?

I'll look into it, but I can't promise anything.

Maybe there's some White Scar style flavour I can add back in here...?

Wowee isn't this a blast from the past!

I love the Stonebound, very awesome chapter. They were around when I was designing my Blazing Sons and I probably drew a little of the Sons dour, pragmatic to the point of fatalistic influence for them from the Stonebounds dwarven roots.

Many thanks, GHY.

Hopefully this time I can actually finish the IA!

Before I delve into the meat of the now returned Stonebound I'd prefer to touch on a couple of things that I noticed.

* The clans forge axes as a coming-of-age ritual/rite of passage (one side of the axe is typically a mining pick, might or might not make it into the IA)

Now bear with me here, what about a Pick-Hammer? They were designed as bludgeoning/piercing anti-armour weapons and it seems like you'd be getting the best of both worlds, if perhaps you'd have to come up with a slightly different name for them. Just a thought.

I do agree it's a little bit Salamanders, but I don't think it's a problem, it just needs to be written around, perhaps not make it resemble the drakes ritual quite so much. A bit of creative licence to work around it would be fine I think.

I'll also read up on the Salamanders' way of doing things, I think, so I can try and identify something the Stonebound can do differently.

* Possibly include something about an iron talisman that is worn around the neck of those willing to become Dreadnoughts if the worst should happen?

* Shown to revere the warrior within the dreadnought rather than just the machine.

I like this a lot. I'd like to see more on it, as it's quite unique really.

I'll see if I can grab a little more and post some actual criticism rather than just praise.

Great to see these guys back!

I don't know how there could really be more on the subject, to be honest, apart from adding something like "Apothecaries always check for the Iron Sign on badly injured battle-brothers".

Glad you like the idea, though!

EDIT:

Left off the most important part:

Thanks to everyone who's read this poorly-planned outline so far, and especially to everyone who's had some C&C to throw at me!

I've got a bunch of extra research to do now, but I'll do my best to update these guys again soon.

[Ace Debonair]

Pardon the double post, but I'm done with my researching.

So my search-fu fails me, and I cannot find anything really detailing the forging rituals of the Salamanders. However! I think I can change things a bit and still keep the legendary craftsmanship of the dwarves alive in the Chapter.
I reckon I'll drop the 'group activity with Chaplain and Techmarine supervision' aspect altogether, for one thing; it's not really needed and gives too strong of a Salamanders vibe.

One thing I could use instead is a Mithril equivalent; some kind of rare, valuable metal found only in the Sector around Kharabor.
Called, I dunno, how about Stormsilver, in High Gothic.

So while the Stonebound wouldn't have a monopoly on Stormsilver, by any means, they could certainly greedily mine out as much as they can find from any worlds they reclaim, especially in the Chapter's youth when they first start to make a name for themselves.

Only the Chapter's greatest smiths would be allowed to use Stormsilver, with which they produce top-flight weapons, and suits of armour that are equal in toughness to traditional ceramite, but are also marvellously worked monuments to the skill of their artisans. Though a precious few of these rare items would have been traded with their allies long ago, for the most part the Stonebound jealously hoard these ornately decorated, proud symbols of the Chapter's prestige and power.

The Chapter, amongst themselves, call Stormsilver 'The Bones of Kharabor', thinking of it as the strength of the Mountainhome's heart itself.

Most of this metal, and of course their stores of prized gear, would be lost with the fall of Kharabor.

So in more recent times, then, things have changed. Stormsilver has become much rarer and more valuable to the Stonebound, and they treat both the raw metal and all equipment made from it with extreme reverence.

It's still used for weapons and armour, but in smaller amounts and alloyed with other materials.

Weapons in particular, will be forged using the 'sanmei' (three-bar) method from Ancient China, since I couldn't find any ancient Mongolian forging traditions to pinch.

Stormsilver is used as the central bar and thus the core of the weapon, it's spine and edge, while the outsides of the weapone are forged from, in this case, lesser metals to prevent unnecessary damage to the Stormsilver and reduce the amount required to make a particular piece of equipment.

So... does that sound like a good idea, or am I just barking up the wrong tree digging myself deeper?

[Conn Eremon]

Having the metal form the core, rather than the spine or edge, makes it sound like it only has sentimental value rather than practical value. Like forging a sword out of meteor rock. Is that intentional?

 

That may be a misunderstanding on my part; I'm as far from a smith expert as it gets. But I'm sure the majority of your readers are like that too.

 

Now, I know Tolkien's dwarves are the primary thematic influence at play here, but how much on the nose do you want that theme to be? I ask because the instant I read the first line, I get a quote that's almost right out of the Hobbit, a quote by a Marine that is all but named Thorin Oakenshield. The rest of the article doesn't let up, to the point where I could hear Peter Jackson's cast sing in my head as I read that excerpt.

 

It's a good, interesting article, and I love those references, but I'm curious if you intend it to be that obvious. It's not inherently bad, it's all good if you did intend it that way. If it isn't intentional however, I think a lot of work needs to be done.

[Ace Debonair]

Having the metal form the core, rather than the spine or edge, makes it sound like it only has sentimental value rather than practical value. Like forging a sword out of meteor rock. Is that intentional?

That may be a misunderstanding on my part; I'm as far from a smith expert as it gets. But I'm sure the majority of your readers are like that too.

Ah. To clarify, then, in this case the core is both the spine and the edge, the lesser metals are just on the sides of the blade.

I probably won't go into all that much detail in the article itself to be fair, just a passing reference to the technique or something.

Now, I know Tolkien's dwarves are the primary thematic influence at play here, but how much on the nose do you want that theme to be? I ask because the instant I read the first line, I get a quote that's almost right out of the Hobbit, a quote by a Marine that is all but named Thorin Oakenshield. The rest of the article doesn't let up, to the point where I could hear Peter Jackson's cast sing in my head as I read that excerpt.

It's a good, interesting article, and I love those references, but I'm curious if you intend it to be that obvious. It's not inherently bad, it's all good if you did intend it that way. If it isn't intentional however, I think a lot of work needs to be done.

Well, I tried the subtle route with these guys long ago, and... long story short it didn't work out.

In fact it put me off writing IAs for like a year afterwards.

So, I thought I'd try something different and just turn it up to eleven.

Well, maybe up to nine. No Thunderdwarf Cavalry for example.

But yeah, if you can feel yourself getting shorter and growing more facial hair when reading the outline then I'm probably on the right track.

I can always dial it back and put equal emphasis on more generic Space Marine traits if it gets out of hand.

[Conn Eremon]

Fair enough on both points. I just know you're one to generally caution against overtheming, so I thought I'd check if this was intentional or not.

 

If your limits are to avoid the exceptionally over-exaggerating theming like the Thunderwolf Cavalry, then you're good to go. You're more in the realms of Wraight and King's Scars and Wolves, respectively.

[Ace Debonair]

Well, my Stormsilver idea didn't bring down the red-hot scathing wrath of the Liber upon my thread, so...

Guess what's made it into the new outline I've just posted?

So the 'greedily snatching relics' bit is now 'greedily excavating precious metal resources to hoard for themselves', which just seems like a better idea all-round.

[NightrawenII]

Well, my Stormsilver idea didn't bring down the red-hot scathing wrath of the Liber upon my thread, so...

Someone called...?

One thing I could use instead is a Mithril equivalent; some kind of rare, valuable metal found only in the Sector around Kharabor.

Called, I dunno, how about Stormsilver, in High Gothic.

Try Red Adamantium.

IIRC, it's alloy created by mixing hot adamantium with blood of daemon and then cooled in tears of soulless being.

I'm no sure about this one.

Couldn't they be just good ol' greedy without any special snowflake? I mean, they could be hoarding resources for their use only, not giving it to their beleguared allies.

Weapons in particular, will be forged using the 'sanmei' (three-bar) method from Ancient China, since I couldn't find any ancient Mongolian forging traditions to pinch.

The Kök-Türks or Gök-Türks were the *blacksmith slaves* of Juan-Juan. At least, that's how Yujiulü Anagui call Bumin Qaghan, before the later revolts against his masters and drive them across the whole eurasian steppe into Europe, where they become Avars, while the turks establish their first kaghanate.

Also, the Scythians were quite accomplished goldsmiths - though some argue that the scythian objects were made by greeks working in scythian employ.

The *Forges of Sughd* were famous enough to enter Islamic mythology.

-= Chapter History: An Age of Stone =-

* The Stonebound establish underground fortresses on these liberated worlds, and use them as a combined fortress and treasury - the Chapter is prone to mining up the rare, useful metal named 'Stormsilver' when they get the opportunity. Stormilver is only found in large quantities in this particular sector, and The Stonebound are loath indeed to share their prized hoard of it with anyone.

These could be forward bases and temporal at first. Only later turned into mining and processing plants.

*Stormilver* is funny word.

* Eventually the highly successful Stonebound become more isolationist in nature, quick to distrust others and assume any offer of help is a ploy to gain access to their numerous treasuries. Their old friendships with others fall by the wayside and are eventually all but forgotten.

Make it more grimdark - It is true.

Both the resources and technology the Stonebound commands are beyond the means and capabilites of the most human-held worlds. At first, the Stonebound are happy to share their treasures with others. However, as the time press on the petitions and humble requests become demands. When the Stonebound fail to comply either because their mines and manufactories aren't boundless* or because they are offended by such impudent orders, some petty rulers turn to underhanded practices like bribery**, confiscation and even privateering.

* They are fairly occupied by the ongoing war with Ork menace, which was expelled into outer space wilderness, but never truly eradicated.

** These facilites are run by Chapter's serfs, who are, by their very nature, just humans.

* Millennia later, at the start of M39, the Stonebound are spread thinly across their claimed territories, and are completely unprepared for the return of the Waaaaagh. Innumerable orks run rough-shod over the sector, fighting through the Stonebound through sheer numbers. Chapter-held worlds fall all over the sector, including their homeworld, Kharabor.

If the Stonebound are hoarding and keeping the resources, the human-held worlds are quickly overrun.

-= Homeworld =-

* The Stonebound build their monastery in one of the deepest and sturdiest caverns, and are fairly distant from the clans when not conducting recruitment trials.

Don't forget, the Stonebound are going off world to fight the Orks and stuff.

-= Beliefs =-

* Forging an axe is a rite of passage for new battle brothers, taken from Kharabori clan traditions.

Among the steppe nomads, each and every warrior builds and maintains his own bow and arrows.

* The Stonebound strongly venerate the Emperor and the Khan. They take immense pride in their lineage and history.

Tengri, just saying.

* The Stonebound believe that they were always in the right to lay claim so many worlds, because they are of the line of The Emperor, the Great Uniter, and they seek to bring humanity together under His rule once more.

Well, while this is technically true, the Legiones Astartes were never intended to be rulers and lords of Emperor's domain.

Also, the Mongols believed that they were divinely-ordained to rule the world.

-= Organisation =-

*More recently, Reserve Companies have seen a lot more action since the Chapter is still under-strength.

Elaborate.

The Reserve companies are here to support and reinforce the battle companies, it doesn't mean they are sitting in Fortress-Monastery, poking their noses.

Especially because I recently figured out what I wanted from the Stonebound: MOAR TOLKIEN.

More specifically, I wanted an analogue for the quest to reclaim the Lonely Mountain to be the Chapter's immediate future.

So... Where is The Dragon?

On the serious note.

The Dwarves of Lone Mountain were once powerful and wealthy, each and every one of them lord in his own right. Now they poor and miserable fugitives, forced to eke out their existence while working as traveling blacksmiths and freelance warriors. That's why they long for Lone Mountain, to return to these days of might and prosperity.

I think, you should, if you really want them to be Lone-Mountain-dwarves, add the fugitive, miserable vibe to them.

~ NightrawenII

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

So while the Stonebound wouldn't have a monopoly on Stormsilver, by any means, they could certainly greedily mine out as much as they can find from any worlds they reclaim, especially in the Chapter's youth when they first start to make a name for themselves.

 

 

Are you going to be mixing in more of the 'dwarven mining lust/curse' that is evident in most fantasy versions of Dwarven character, not least of which being your Hobbit inspiration. Maybe something for initiates to do while their implants are maturing? It gives them something physically and mentally taxing to perform, being driven to mine deeper, to find more and more of the silver... err... gold. I can see instances of some stronger initiates saving their bretheren from cave ins, or having natural talent for spotting weak spots and how the rock runs.

 

It could tie in to their forging of their own weapons, where initially they are shown how to forge their own tools to use, which is indicative of natural forging talent at the beginning, but they can also reforge those tools later into their weapons of war as they emerge from initiate to full-fledged battle-brother.

 

 

I think I'm working too much as a spare writer for your IA here Ace, apologies. However, take it as a positive that your guys inspire such imaginings, if they were boring they'd inspire nothing and I'd get tired of thinking about them.

[Ace Debonair]

Well, my Stormsilver idea didn't bring down the red-hot scathing wrath of the Liber upon my thread, so...

Someone called...?

I knew that would work!

One thing I could use instead is a Mithril equivalent; some kind of rare, valuable metal found only in the Sector around Kharabor.

Called, I dunno, how about Stormsilver, in High Gothic.

Try Red Adamantium.

IIRC, it's alloy created by mixing hot adamantium with blood of daemon and then cooled in tears of soulless being.

I'm no sure about this one.

Couldn't they be just good ol' greedy without any special snowflake? I mean, they could be hoarding resources for their use only, not giving it to their beleguared allies.

I suppose they could just be greedy without their own rare metal, but I'd like to have something rare to start them on the path of greed.

I don't intend for Stormsilver to be anything special; but the Stonebound think it is and so only let their best craftsmen use it.

Weapons in particular, will be forged using the 'sanmei' (three-bar) method from Ancient China, since I couldn't find any ancient Mongolian forging traditions to pinch.

The Kök-Türks or Gök-Türks were the *blacksmith slaves* of Juan-Juan. At least, that's how Yujiulü Anagui call Bumin Qaghan, before the later revolts against his masters and drive them across the whole eurasian steppe into Europe, where they become Avars, while the turks establish their first kaghanate.

Also, the Scythians were quite accomplished goldsmiths - though some argue that the scythian objects were made by greeks working in scythian employ.

The *Forges of Sughd* were famous enough to enter Islamic mythology.

I bow to your greater knowledge on the topic!

There's bound to be some small details I can add to the Stonebound, then, to tie them more to their White Scars roots.

* The Stonebound establish underground fortresses on these liberated worlds, and use them as a combined fortress and treasury - the Chapter is prone to mining up the rare, useful metal named 'Stormsilver' when they get the opportunity. Stormilver is only found in large quantities in this particular sector, and The Stonebound are loath indeed to share their prized hoard of it with anyone.

These could be forward bases and temporal at first. Only later turned into mining and processing plants.

*Stormilver* is funny word.

That's a good idea!

Stormsilver is a funny word. I looked up the literal translation of Mithril from Tolkien elven language, which was 'grey-glitter', and decided it needed to sound more... fierce, and wondrous.

I admit, it's not the best thing I've ever come up with, but it'll do for now.

* Eventually the highly successful Stonebound become more isolationist in nature, quick to distrust others and assume any offer of help is a ploy to gain access to their numerous treasuries. Their old friendships with others fall by the wayside and are eventually all but forgotten.

Make it more grimdark - It is true.

Both the resources and technology the Stonebound commands are beyond the means and capabilites of the most human-held worlds. At first, the Stonebound are happy to share their treasures with others. However, as the time press on the petitions and humble requests become demands. When the Stonebound fail to comply either because their mines and manufactories aren't boundless* or because they are offended by such impudent orders, some petty rulers turn to underhanded practices like bribery**, confiscation and even privateering.

* They are fairly occupied by the ongoing war with Ork menace, which was expelled into outer space wilderness, but never truly eradicated.

** These facilites are run by Chapter's serfs, who are, by their very nature, just humans.

Nightrawen, you're a genius.

The best part is, they don't all have to be after the Stonebound's loot. Once the first attempted theft is discovered, the Chapter is going to be suspicious of everyone, even the rare people they could most likely trust!

If the Stonebound are hoarding and keeping the resources, the human-held worlds are quickly overrun.

You're right about that!

I'll try and make that more clear when I write it up.

* The Stonebound build their monastery in one of the deepest and sturdiest caverns, and are fairly distant from the clans when not conducting recruitment trials.

Don't forget, the Stonebound are going off world to fight the Orks and stuff.

That's actually one of the really old bits I haven't updated in a while. Well spotted, though, because it's badly worded.

Especially since the Stonebound are obsessed with their homeworld, so they'd probably be much more involved on Kharabor.

I'll take another look at this.

* Forging an axe is a rite of passage for new battle brothers, taken from Kharabori clan traditions.

Among the steppe nomads, each and every warrior builds and maintains his own bow and arrows.

I can make use of that.

Maybe I should make each battle-brother build and maintain their own bolter?

* The Stonebound strongly venerate the Emperor and the Khan. They take immense pride in their lineage and history.

Tengri, just saying.

I know I've already said this in this post, but it bears repeating:

Nightrawen, you're a genius!

* The Stonebound believe that they were always in the right to lay claim so many worlds, because they are of the line of The Emperor, the Great Uniter, and they seek to bring humanity together under His rule once more.

Well, while this is technically true, the Legiones Astartes were never intended to be rulers and lords of Emperor's domain.

Also, the Mongols believed that they were divinely-ordained to rule the world.

I'm definitely going to bear both these points in mind when I write up this section.

-= Organisation =-

*More recently, Reserve Companies have seen a lot more action since the Chapter is still under-strength.

Elaborate.

The Reserve companies are here to support and reinforce the battle companies, it doesn't mean they are sitting in Fortress-Monastery, poking their noses.

Elaborate? With pleasure!

So, following the codex guidelines, initiates become scouts, who become battle-brothers that go into the reserve companies and receive further training, before being added to the battle companies.

After the Stonebound lose Kharabor and make their stand at Kagara, they're understrength, but don't change from the way they've always trained marines, so there are more fresh faces in the reserve companies and the battle companies are still under-strength.

As a result, whenever a big mission comes up, the reserve companies are usually tasked to take the main role in the fight, with the Battle Companies instead acting as support because of their limited numbers.

Does that make sense?

Or should I just take this idea out?

Especially because I recently figured out what I wanted from the Stonebound: MOAR TOLKIEN.

More specifically, I wanted an analogue for the quest to reclaim the Lonely Mountain to be the Chapter's immediate future.

So... Where is The Dragon?

On Mars!

On the serious note.

The Dwarves of Lone Mountain were once powerful and wealthy, each and every one of them lord in his own right. Now they poor and miserable fugitives, forced to eke out their existence while working as traveling blacksmiths and freelance warriors. That's why they long for Lone Mountain, to return to these days of might and prosperity.

I think, you should, if you really want them to be Lone-Mountain-dwarves, add the fugitive, miserable vibe to them.

~ NightrawenII

You raise a good point!

Once Kharabor falls there should definitely be more desperation, and misery.

Many thanks, Nightrawen, you've given me plenty to research, think about and adapt.

[Ace Debonair]

Excuse the double post, there were apparently 'too many quotes' for merely one reply.

So while the Stonebound wouldn't have a monopoly on Stormsilver, by any means, they could certainly greedily mine out as much as they can find from any worlds they reclaim, especially in the Chapter's youth when they first start to make a name for themselves.

Are you going to be mixing in more of the 'dwarven mining lust/curse' that is evident in most fantasy versions of Dwarven character, not least of which being your Hobbit inspiration.

If you're talking about the 'Dragon-sickness', then I'm just sticking with good old fashioned Greed instead. It's basically the same thing, after all!

Maybe something for initiates to do while their implants are maturing? It gives them something physically and mentally taxing to perform, being driven to mine deeper, to find more and more of the silver... err... gold. I can see instances of some stronger initiates saving their bretheren from cave ins, or having natural talent for spotting weak spots and how the rock runs.

That could be quite good!
Mixed with your typical Space Marine initiate combat training, of course, but there's definite potential there.

It could tie in to their forging of their own weapons, where initially they are shown how to forge their own tools to use, which is indicative of natural forging talent at the beginning, but they can also reforge those tools later into their weapons of war as they emerge from initiate to full-fledged battle-brother.

Ooh, I approve of this.
It's a small detail, but a good one!

I think I'm working too much as a spare writer for your IA here Ace, apologies. However, take it as a positive that your guys inspire such imaginings, if they were boring they'd inspire nothing and I'd get tired of thinking about them.

Well, a lot of this Chapter is other people's work by now, to be honest!
I'm just pleased the idea is still well-liked enough that people are willing to read it, and very pleased that the Stonebound continue to inspire ideas.

[NightrawenII]

I bow to your greater knowledge on the topic!

There's bound to be some small details I can add to the Stonebound, then, to tie them more to their White Scars roots.

Inner Asia & Steppe Warriors are my hobby, so if you want to know something just ask.

* The Stonebound establish underground fortresses on these liberated worlds, and use them as a combined fortress and treasury - the Chapter is prone to mining up the rare, useful metal named 'Stormsilver' when they get the opportunity. Stormilver is only found in large quantities in this particular sector, and The Stonebound are loath indeed to share their prized hoard of it with anyone.

These could be forward bases and temporal at first. Only later turned into mining and processing plants.

*Stormilver* is funny word.

Stormsilver is a funny word. I looked up the literal translation of Mithril from Tolkien elven language, which was 'grey-glitter', and decided it needed to sound more... fierce, and wondrous.

I admit, it's not the best thing I've ever come up with, but it'll do for now.

Ahem.

Pay attention to detail.

Nightrawen, you're a genius.

The best part is, they don't all have to be after the Stonebound's loot. Once the first attempted theft is discovered, the Chapter is going to be suspicious of everyone, even the rare people they could most likely trust!

That was the idea, yeah.

However, the grimdark part is the fact that the Stonebound are/were not greedy, it's just what humans think.

* Forging an axe is a rite of passage for new battle brothers, taken from Kharabori clan traditions.

Among the steppe nomads, each and every warrior builds and maintains his own bow and arrows.

I can make use of that.

Maybe I should make each battle-brother build and maintain their own bolter?

Well, it would make more sense since they are successors of Space Mongols. To be honest, I threw it here as pointless trivia.

Just a funny thought.

Couldn't they just send their neophyte/scouts to steal retrieve weapons from the hidden troves in their former Fortress-Monastery on Kharabor? As a rite of admission. I mean, the dwarves in Hobbit did have a thief with them.

Elaborate? With pleasure!

So, following the codex guidelines, initiates become scouts, who become battle-brothers that go into the reserve companies and receive further training, before being added to the battle companies.

After the Stonebound lose Kharabor and make their stand at Kagara, they're understrength, but don't change from the way they've always trained marines, so there are more fresh faces in the reserve companies and the battle companies are still under-strength.

As a result, whenever a big mission comes up, the reserve companies are usually tasked to take the main role in the fight, with the Battle Companies instead acting as support because of their limited numbers.

Does that make sense?

Or should I just take this idea out?

Well, I think I understand what are you saying, but... When the Battle Company is understrenght then it receives fresh marines from Reserve Company. So, in theory, the Battle Co. is the last company which should be understrenght. (That's why veterans in Reserves make no sense.)

You raise a good point!

Once Kharabor falls there should definitely be more desperation, and misery.

Well, after some pondering.

I don't think they should claim Irol/Kagara as their homeworld. The bastion-hold here could function just as gene-seed repository and implantation&indoctrination facility, while the rest of Chapter is practically fleet-based. Basically, they deny to acknowledge the loss of Kharabor.

In fact, you could make the tribes of Kagara a refugees/escapees from the Kharabor (a thriving Hive/Industrial World), who over the centuries regressed to a state of techno-barbarians.

Also, in HH IV book there is planet which is, at regular period, exposed to season of lethal radiation from its star. During this time the humans seek refugee in subterranean havens. You could use this.

Many thanks, Nightrawen, you've given me plenty to research, think about and adapt.

I'm glad to help.

~ Nightrawen

[Conn Eremon]

I agree with Nightrawen on the subject of Battle/Reserve Companies. It seems like a particularly poor tactical decision to maintain full strength Reserves while your more capable and flexible Battle Companies are undermanned.

 

It either needs an explanation why (schism among company officers, the Reserves refuse to forward warriors?) or a change-up.

 

If you're trying to portray the Chapter as on its last legs, down to its reserve forces, I'd still have the Battle-Companies brought back to full-strength, or as near as able. You can bring attention to the fact that this process has forced the Chapter to forward their Marines through the Reserves at an undesirable pace.

 

For example, a proper battle-company will have Assault Squads who have had full Assault, Devastator, Tactical and Vehicle training. The Stonebound, on the other hand, are forced to forward Marines directly from the Assault Company, leading to inflexible (a nice, Dwarven trait) squads.

[Ace Debonair]

Ahem.

Pay attention to detail.

...Oh.

Well spotted!

Just a funny thought.

Couldn't they just send their neophyte/scouts to steal retrieve weapons from the hidden troves in their former Fortress-Monastery on Kharabor? As a rite of admission. I mean, the dwarves in Hobbit did have a thief with them.

I might just have them do that.

Does that make sense?

Or should I just take this idea out?

Well, I think I understand what are you saying, but... When the Battle Company is understrenght then it receives fresh marines from Reserve Company. So, in theory, the Battle Co. is the last company which should be understrenght. (That's why veterans in Reserves make no sense.)

That makes more sense.

I'll have the Reserves as under-strength then.

I don't think they should claim Irol/Kagara as their homeworld. The bastion-hold here could function just as gene-seed repository and implantation&indoctrination facility, while the rest of Chapter is practically fleet-based. Basically, they deny to acknowledge the loss of Kharabor.

In fact, you could make the tribes of Kagara a refugees/escapees from the Kharabor (a thriving Hive/Industrial World), who over the centuries regressed to a state of techno-barbarians.

Also, in HH IV book there is planet which is, at regular period, exposed to season of lethal radiation from its star. During this time the humans seek refugee in subterranean havens. You could use this.

Oooh, I especially like the idea they don't call Kagara their homeworld. Very dwarfy!

I agree with Nightrawen on the subject of Battle/Reserve Companies. It seems like a particularly poor tactical decision to maintain full strength Reserves while your more capable and flexible Battle Companies are undermanned.

It either needs an explanation why (schism among company officers, the Reserves refuse to forward warriors?) or a change-up.

If you're trying to portray the Chapter as on its last legs, down to its reserve forces, I'd still have the Battle-Companies brought back to full-strength, or as near as able. You can bring attention to the fact that this process has forced the Chapter to forward their Marines through the Reserves at an undesirable pace.

For example, a proper battle-company will have Assault Squads who have had full Assault, Devastator, Tactical and Vehicle training. The Stonebound, on the other hand, are forced to forward Marines directly from the Assault Company, leading to inflexible (a nice, Dwarven trait) squads.

I like it.

It's a nice blend between Dutiful Space Marine and Dwarvish Stubbornness.

Between you and Nightrawen I am thoroughly convinced the Battle Companies should be fine and the Reserves should be the ones that are under-strength, so I'm definitely changing to that when I next write up the outline!