Baal Predator; tactics and which version works best?

[Boudan]

It probably goes without saying but... I'm often moving my Baal into dangerous territory with its puny AV11 because a) it does force some sort of response from my opponent on a timeframe I designate, and b) board control. I plug those movement lanes and more often than not it requires my opponent to use pieces of his army in a manner he wasn't quite intending. Could this be accomplished with a regular Predator? Yes. I use those too. The difference in shots plus rending makes it not quite such a obvious call in favor of the autocannon Pred. in some scenarios. Lastly, I'll easily be in range (most of the time) so that issue seems like a bit of unnecessary concern (speaking only for myself).

[The Unseen]

That's the thing, if you take a regular predator with autocannon and hb sponsons, you can park it in a corner and shoot more than half the table, while not showing anything that av11.

[appiah4]

That's the thing, if you take a regular predator with autocannon and hb sponsons, you can park it in a corner and shoot more than half the table, while not showing anything that av11.

 

Yeah, the problem is that the mediocre S6 autocannon will keep firing all game long and bust a single Rhino and kill a few marines.  If you're lucky.

[CaptainHelion]

S7, actually. The Assault Cannon is S6

[Charlo]

That's the thing, if you take a regular predator with autocannon and hb sponsons, you can park it in a corner and shoot more than half the table, while not showing anything that av11.

 

But we're fast if you want to do that play vanilla :P

 

Baals work nicely with jump infantry, they can screen them or keep up and provide another threat to handle. They also work wonders when screened with rhinos/ razors. They're basically void shields with guns.

[appiah4]

S7, actually. The Assault Cannon is S6

 

My bad. 

 

My point is, 24" 4 S6  Rending does a much better job of putting damage on anything than 36" 3 S7 does while sitting at the board corner.  Yes it's much safer, but also much less useful.

[Jolemai]

Dakkapreds appear quite often in other Marine armies, but the reason they don't appear too often in a BA army is because the Baal Predator exists.

[Paikis]

I plan on having 1-2 predator annihilators and then 2 Baal predators with magnetized everything.

[Xenith]

Love the Baal, get the 5pt storm bolter on it for a little extra anti infantry, it can still move 6" and put out 12 shots. The assault cannons, I believe, are still statistically better than lascannons at anti tank, so you can add the HKM to enhance this...but points go up.

 

As ever, move it up with infantry, to dissuade people assaulting it.

[evildrcheese]

True, when taking a standard Pred, BA are probably better off with the tri-Las variant.

 

EDC

[Jolemai]

True, when taking a standard Pred, BA are probably better off with the tri-Las variant.

 

EDC

 

Horses for courses. Here's something I wrote in the Tactica forum a while back:

 

 

 

There are five configurations for most Predators:

• "Autolas" - autocannon and lascannons, this is useful for popping transports and is arguably the most cost effective option
• "Dakka" - autocannon and heavy bolters, this is cheap and useful for hoards. However, you may well get better bang for your buck elsewhere depending on what army you play
• "Trilas" - As the name sounds, this is a twin-linked lascannon and lascannons. Many people love this for popping armour but again, it can vary depending on your army. It's also the priciest option.
• "Nope" - Twin-linked lascannon and heavy bolters. I don't think this set up has any redeeming features at all. The weapons don't synergise well with each other and it's not particularly cost effective.
• "Cheap" - This option see you take a Predator with no sponsons. Basically, it's an AV 13 Razorback without the transport capacity and arguably, any job you earmark for it can be done better (and cheaper) elsewhere.

 

 

Basically, there are times when the Autolas is better than the Trilas and vica-versa, however given our melta capabilities, we are better with the Autolas in that regard. Similarly I've noted in the above quote that the Dakkapred's value may vary depending on Faction - a hint towards our Baal.

[evildrcheese]

I think where the Tri-Las shines is that with the fast upgrade it's much easier to get those side armour shots, and because of our Melta flex we can more easily saturate a target to get those shots through when it counts. Against Knight is a prime example for this. Nice round up though, really hits the spot.

 

EDC

[Bartali]

That's the thing, if you take a regular predator with autocannon and hb sponsons, you can park it in a corner and shoot more than half the table, while not showing anything that av11.

But we're fast if you want to do that play vanilla

Baals work nicely with jump infantry, they can screen them or keep up and provide another threat to handle. They also work wonders when screened with rhinos/ razors. They're basically void shields with guns.

Yeah.

I like cheap Flamestorm Baals (no sponsons) for this reason, but need to build a list that works with them. No point suiciding them when the rest of your army is in mid/backfield.

At 1500pts (BSF) I quite like:-

Librarian w/ Jump Pack

5x DC w/ Jump Packs, Power Axe

5x DC w/ Jump Packs, Power Axe

5x DC w/ Jump Packs, Power Axe

5x DC w/ Jump Packs, Power Axe

5x Scouts

5x Scouts

3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike

3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike

3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike

1x Baal Pred w/ Flamestorm Cannon

1x Baal Pred w/ Flamestorm Cannon

1x Baal Pred w/ Flamestorm Cannon

Grav 'em/Roast 'em/Punch 'em

[evildrcheese]

That's the thing, if you take a regular predator with autocannon and hb sponsons, you can park it in a corner and shoot more than half the table, while not showing anything that av11.

But we're fast if you want to do that play vanilla

Baals work nicely with jump infantry, they can screen them or keep up and provide another threat to handle. They also work wonders when screened with rhinos/ razors. They're basically void shields with guns.

Yeah.

I like cheap Flamestorm Baals (no sponsons) for this reason, but need to build a list that works with them. No point suiciding them when the rest of your army is in mid/backfield.

At 1500pts (BSF) I quite like:-

Librarian w/ Jump Pack

5x DC w/ Jump Packs, Power Axe

5x DC w/ Jump Packs, Power Axe

5x DC w/ Jump Packs, Power Axe

5x DC w/ Jump Packs, Power Axe

5x Scouts

5x Scouts

3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike

3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike

3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike

1x Baal Pred w/ Flamestorm Cannon

1x Baal Pred w/ Flamestorm Cannon

1x Baal Pred w/ Flamestorm Cannon

Grav 'em/Roast 'em/Punch 'em

That actually looks like a super fun list. What powers so you roll for on the Libby, and what is his role?

Have you tried concatenating 2 of the DC squads together and switching out the Libby for a Chappy?

EDC

[appiah4]

My list with Baals is below:

 

1x Librarian (Power Axe)

 

1x Tactical Squad (Heavy Flamer, Meltagun, Grav Pistol, Drop Pod)

1x Tactical Squad (Multi-Melta, Plasmagun, Veteran Sergeant, Power Sword, Drop Pod)

1x Cassor the Damned (Drop Pod)

 

7x Death Company (Boltguns, 1x Power Fist, Drop Pod)

1x Furioso Dreadnought (Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod)

 

5x Bike Squad (Veteran Sergeant, Power Fist, 2x Plasmagun)

 

1x Baal Predator (TL Assault Cannon, HB Sponsons)

1x Baal Predator (Flamestorm Cannon, HB Sponsons)

 

It's basically a Drop Pod list that can either concentrate on one flank or force the enemy to split by virtue of being two of every element..

[Bartali]

That's the thing, if you take a regular predator with autocannon and hb sponsons, you can park it in a corner and shoot more than half the table, while not showing anything that av11.

But we're fast if you want to do that play vanilla

Baals work nicely with jump infantry, they can screen them or keep up and provide another threat to handle. They also work wonders when screened with rhinos/ razors. They're basically void shields with guns.

Yeah.

I like cheap Flamestorm Baals (no sponsons) for this reason, but need to build a list that works with them. No point suiciding them when the rest of your army is in mid/backfield.

At 1500pts (BSF) I quite like:-

Librarian w/ Jump Pack

5x DC w/ Jump Packs, Power Axe

5x DC w/ Jump Packs, Power Axe

5x DC w/ Jump Packs, Power Axe

5x DC w/ Jump Packs, Power Axe

5x Scouts

5x Scouts

3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike

3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike

3x Bikes w/ 2x Grav; MM Attack Bike

1x Baal Pred w/ Flamestorm Cannon

1x Baal Pred w/ Flamestorm Cannon

1x Baal Pred w/ Flamestorm Cannon

Grav 'em/Roast 'em/Punch 'em

That actually looks like a super fun list. What powers so you roll for on the Libby, and what is his role?

Have you tried concatenating 2 of the DC squads together and switching out the Libby for a Chappy?

EDC

I like to keep it all fast MSU and flood the field with targets - I don't think BA work that well with big units.

If I'm being honest, the Libby is there because he's a cheap(er) mandatory HQ. If he manages to pull off a few powers in game, it's a bonus. If I could rustle up a spare 10pts, I'd put him on a bike so he isn't an obvious 'warlord' point.

I'm not a fan of most of the BA HQs I'm afraid.

[NTaW]

How about a Priest on a bike?

[Xenith]

How about a Priest on a bike?

 

I was going to suggest that. Toughness boost, adds FNP to 5 T5 wounds.

 

I'd also be tempted to run that as a Flesh Tearer Strike force, but your meta may vary.

 

Otherwise, awesome army!

[Charlo]

.........I need some Flamestorm Baals.

[Xenith]

.........I need some Flamestorm Baals.

 

You need some magnets.

[Charlo]

 

 

.........I need some Flamestorm Baals.

You need some magnets.

Sadly no, my current Baal is the 3rd edition one that is a metal and plastic combo. Everything is very glued down :P

 

Some new turrets would do me fine though :D

[appiah4]

.........I need some Flamestorm Baals.

 

For whatever reason this post got me singing Baaaaaals oooof Fiiiiire to the Survivor - Hearts of Fire tune..

[SM1981]

New song write / rewrite brothers???

[Charlo]

New song write / rewrite brothers???

 

Mayhaps we finish the old one first ;)

[SM1981]

Didn't Servant of Dante do that for us?