1500 - RG - Decapitation Strike

[Gyem]

First the list :

 

Legion : XIX Loyalist

 

- HQ1 : Praetor, Jump Pack, Boarding Shield, Paragon Blade, Thunder Hammer, RoW : Decapitation Strike [180pts]

 

- TR1 : Tactical Squad, Rhino [185pts]

- TR2 : Tactical Squad, Rhino [185pts]

- TR3 : Tactical Support Squad, 2 additional marines, Drop Pod [165pts]

 

- EL1 : Mor Deythan, 5 Combi-Weapons, Rhino w/ Dozer Blade [210pts]

- EL2 : 3 Laser Destroyer Array [165pts]

 

- FA1 : Dark Fury Squad, 3 additional Furies, Chooser w/ MBs [270pts]

 

- HS1 : Sicaran Battle Tank w/ Dozer Blade [140pts]

 

So I just started HH two months ago, I haven't played yet and I'm trying to paint everything before playing it. I know there are a few HH players in my area but I don't really know how is the meta and I don't really want to tailor. 

 

I'm looking to build a first balanced list with a decent striking power. My main concern is the AT, I like the Sicaran as an all rounders but is there a better choice than the rapiers ?

 

On the way of playing it, how risky do you play? For exemple in deploying your infiltrators/scouts on very forward positions but risking getting seized on ?

[Nusquam]

 I would drop the hammer or blade on the praetor depending on what you're fighting. If it's an all-comers I suggest the blade and digital lasers(they give +1A in 30k).

 

There is a lot of AT in the legion list, the hardest part is choosing whats right for you. Laser rapiers do a lot of component damage to vehicles with a better chance to explode, grav rapiers do more straight HPs, while shatter shell rapiers do a bit of both. For example if you face a lot of flare shields or super heavies that cant be stunned/lose weapons grav is the way to go.

 

Then theres vehicles. The Sicaran has good coverage against a range of targets. The venator is great against heavier units. Light Strike Fighters can slag things with a rack of Kraken Penetrator missiles. All fast and good at their roles.

 

Then theres heavy support squads. Expensive and don't get direct buffs like other legions, but 5 lascannons infiltrated in side armor is scary.

 

As for style of playing it very much depends on the opponent. Being able to infiltrate into optimal positiosn works both offensively and defensively. With the option to outflank too. The same RG list can play very differently depending on what you need to do. Like offensively in a kill point oriented mission or hidden to bunker down on objectives etc.

[Gyem]

I just realized I went full retard with 2 specialist weapons for the +1 A and the boarding shield prevents that. I'll drop either the TH or the shield for a more conventional invul. I really like the TH (or a PF) though, 6/7A on the charge S9 can wreck a lot of stuff.

On the same subject, I'm considering drop the praetor for a more simple delegatus with TH/Shield. Way less attacks but it frees a lot of points.

 

Concerning the AT I did a little rapier math :

3 lasers (165pts) vs 2 grav (150pts) vs 2 shatter shells (140pts).

 

VS AV14 (no flare shield/hitting the side)

Laser takes ~1.5hp including a ~0.27 expected value of explosion result.

Grav takes ~1.2hp taking 7" as max scatter roll to hit on non-hit roll.

Shatter takes ~1.6hp

 

VS AV11

Laser : ~2.6hp / ~0.86 explosion

Grav : same as above

Shatter : ~4.5hp

 

Shatter Shells have great value but won't be able to scratch through a flare shield. Grav only shines when shooting at the flare shield.

 

Lightnings are awesome but have the same range as doritos and require reserve enhancers. Can dreads intercept on 360° ?

[Nusquam]

When you do go grav/shatter, you go for a full 3 to get maximum effect. This is if you face flare shields regularly, dracosans, spartans etc and want consistent damage. The difference in points is negligible when you're playing at the optimal 2.5k range. At 1.5k it's harder to do anything with the Legion list unless you're play Raids or ZM. The Delegatus Chosen Duty is the exception.

 

Another thing is that there are 3 different profiles for laser destroyers and I still have no idea which one to use. I lean towards the 48" S9 AP1 Ordnance one myself. But I've seen 36" and AP2 on others. The amount of copy paste rules artefacting in the books is horrendous.

 

Shatter shells I'm a big fan of because I take things like Lightnings, Knights, Grav dreads and the like for big stuff. The shatter shells can tear apart squadrons, dreads(because our rapiers get infiltrate there's great opportunity to do this)

Speaking of Lightnings and Deredeos. I've only ever seen one on a table. They're quality but not everyone uses them. I see far more LC Mortis dreads. They key to this is clever placement. Get a cover save from ruins or a Darkwing to block it. It's somethign people like to cite to discourage flyers, but that way of thinking is a slippery slope. Everything in this game has a notable counter. Sure some are easier to use/better than others but that shouldn't stop anyone from taking a choice outright.

 

As for the intercept arc it's not clear. I'm in the camp that they can only intercept in their normal arc but YMMV.

 

Also I checked your math, it's late here so I might be off myself

 

@BS4 VS AV14

3 LD: 3 shots twin linked, 2.667 hit, 1.48 HP, 9% chance of explodes

2 Shatter: 8 shots, 4 hit, 1.63 HP

2 Grav Rapiers : (BS4 and 5" blast means you need to scatter at least 10" perfectly in one direction perfectly to miss things like land raiders, which is about a 1.4% chance on a good day so I won't even count it), 1.667 HP

3 Shatter: 12 shots, 8 hit, 2.44 HP

3 GR: 2.5 HP

 

Grav is going to do more consistent damage to big targets, and especially flareshields, even with only 2. Even shatter does a bit more.

 

Once you start factoring in dreads then the sheer HP damage shatter and grav can do will down the dread faster, but shatter and rapiers will do more component damage and cause shakes/stuns. Even then I would lean towards the shatter for doing more HPs to kill it outright more consistently. Shatter/grav costs more points, but they do better. So if you want to maim AA Dreads shatter is the way to go, good chance to force snap shots.

 

The lower the AV the better shatter is going to do thanks to the sheer number of shots.

[Gyem]

I can't say that the difference in point is negligeable @1500pts. My AoD detachment has plenty of room left. I agree it's not the same @2500.

 

I'm totally convinced on using lightning at 2500 with Maun or a Damocles, but not in this list. Like I said I don't know my local meta so better safe than sorry.

 

On the maths, nothing too bad just a few precisions,

0.09 is the chance of explode per hit (1/6 to pen + ordonance and 1/3 to explode with AP1 profile)

8 shots gives 5.34 hits but the hp delt is correct.

You are right with the 10" scatter it's more reasonable given the size of LR/Spartan. I get a larger number (same order of magnitude though) but it depends on how strict you choose your angle.

 

At the end of the day I'm still undecided on my rapiers. Grav are great if you have 2x3 of them. But I can't afford that in this list.

 

I think I'm going to play the pray for explode game with lascan on the sicaran.

 

Edit : in the crusade army list the laser is 36" Ord1 TL S9AP1

[Gyem]

v1.1

HQ1 : Delegatus, Jump Pack, Boarding Shield, MC Thunder Hammer, RoW : Decapitation Strike [130pts]

TR1 : Tactical Squad, Rhino [185pts]

TR2 : Tactical Squad, Rhino [185pts]

TR3 : Tactical Support Squad, 1 additional marines, Drop Pod [150pts]

EL1 : Mor Deythan, 5 Combi-Weapons, Rhino w/ Dozer Blade [210pts]

EL2 : 3 Laser Destroyer Array [165pts]

FA1 : Dark Fury Squad, 4 additional Furies, Chooser w/ MBs [300pts]

HS1 : Sicaran Battle Tank w/ Lascannons [175pts]

Changelog :

- Praetor / + Delegatus

- 1 support marine

+ 1 Fury

- Dozer Blade / + Lascannons

I like the lascannons, more AT !

My main question is should I keep my additional Fury or keep my Praetor. The fury add 4 Talon MC attacks and an additional body vs +1Ld/access to Paragon Blade.

 

Edit : point correction.

[Nusquam]

Even though I was using battlescribe I knew I shouldn't have attempted math in the wee hours of the AM ha.

 

I said it was negligible at 2.5k, not 1.5k. The point I was trying to make was that in 30k you'll eat up points, but so does everyone.

 

At 1.5k I would try the Delegatus first. It's easy to sink too many points into one unit at lower levels and the Delegatus helps fix that. Plus Dark Furies are S5 on the charge, with rending and a lot of attacks. So they can shred some AV if needed.

 

Now with the support marines, are you fighting in 40k or against other 30k lists?