Crazy day of Kill Team

[march10k]

So I played three games of kill team this weekend.   I'm frustrated/confused because I lost two games I should have dominated and tabled my opponent in a game in which I should have been tabled.

 

I ran a veteran squad with chamelioline, carapace, and a chimera.  I gave the chimera a dozer blade (in one mission, I might have to just rush across the table and get off of the far board edge, if the attacker...so a 1/12 chance) and a heavy stubber.  I gave the squad a cover-ignoring autocannon, a preferred enemy plasma gun, and a feel no pain plasma gun.  

 

My first opponent was seven nurgle bikers...I should have been laughed off the table (and T6 should be banned in kill teams, just like 2+ armor is...T6 with no trouble getting a 2+ jink is broken in this format!).  Well, my opponent couldn't make his jinks and couldn't strip hp from the chimera (and a bike driving up to the third floor of a ruin and charging the autocannon team on the end of a beam that's narrower than the bike tire...really?  C'mon, man!), so he lost all seven bikes in five turns.  Luck was with me, it should have gone the other way.

 

Second, I faced eldar...two vypers with 6 S6 shots each, and a bunch of dire avengers.  The cover-ignoring autocannon made short work of the first vyper, but the second one got a flank shot on the chimera, and it was all over after that...none of his infantry broke cover until my men were forced to get out and walk...at that point, they played like tau, walk into LOS, kill a couple guys, and battle focus back out of LOS...two guardsmen lived...The table was like 50% LOS-blocking terrain, that was definitely a factor.  It still might have gone my way if the autocannon hadn't whiffed against the second vyper after the chimera died.  

 

The last game was against some kinda martian list...he had like 6 models for his 200 points, and once they broke cover, they dropped like flies...glass hammers with a gazillion shots and S6 in melee.  We were playing "supply drop," and in the end, his leader was the only one alive, I'd lost 3 guardsmen and the chimera, and yet the objective was contested, neither of us had linebreaker or slay the warlord, he won on first blood (killed the chimera).  One of those games that you dominate and lose anyway...the leader made three 6+ invulnerable saves on turn 5 to avoid being tabled AND contest the objective!

 

I was going to field exactly this list at an upcoming 'con, but now I'm questioning that idea...not that I have any alternative in mind.

[librisrouge]

Interesting report. I've never done kill team so I don't have much to offer except that sentinels have always intrigued me with this.

[march10k]

I was very much tempted to spam three autocannon armored sentinels alongside a dismounted veteran squad...but 3x45=135+60 leaves 5 points to spend on the squad...and only taking 2 armored sentinels...well, it's four HP versus the 3 of the chimera, but the chimera with heavy stubber has 9 shots and it keeps the veterans alive longer...I really think a chimera-load of vets is the way to go with guard in kill team.  If I could, I'd actually just take four armored sentinels and call it a day...maybe 4 ratlings and 4 multilaser armored sentinels?  But really, autocannons>multilasers, so that's not really satisfactory, either, although many people are completely unprepared for AV12...

[N1SB]

Hi, I'm a contributor to the Kill Team Tactica at http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Kill_Team_Tactica_(for_Warhammer_40,000_7th_edition)

 

Before you look at that, let me say I think you did really well against your opponents:

 

- Nurgle Bikers are tough, but so costly that they are few in number, which is their flaw as you successfully found

 

- Eldar are just OP even in Kill Team due to their mobility.  A lot of their units have harassment tricks like you saw

 

- That last battle you described, I think with AdMech Electro Priests, was just your opponent having insanely good luck

 

Veterans in a Chimera are a good choice for exactly the reasons you specified; I completely agree with you and so do the other collaborators in that article.  There, we had an On & Off Relationship with them as the top recommended units for a long time.  What took them off was that Space Marine SCOUTS, for being just a little bit more expensive, offered so much more with the official Kill Team rules you're using (where Infiltrate is now allowed and quite OP), then with the latest SM Codex where Scouts got a huge buff for no points increase.

 

Armoured Sentinel and Ratling Scout Spam is...pretty good, if you have the Armoured Sentinels already.  As you noticed, not many players think about Vehicles and come unprepared.  Even if they remember, they can only fit so many anti-vehicle weapons in their list, so multiple AV12 Vehicles can really screw opponents (myself included) up.  The other benefit of Armoured Sentinels is that, as Vehicles, they don't take Break Tests.  All that said, a SM Scout horde, Swooping Hawks, etc. are a hard-counter to that.

 

IMHO, you seem to be a really good Guard player, succeeding with the Veteran Squad + Chimera setup.  It seems to work for you better than other people.  Maybe if you can take out the plasma guns and some other upgrades, you can fit just 3 Ratling Snipers like you were thinking about?  In the scenarios you described, the Snipers would have really threatened the Nurgle Bikers and AdMech.  The idea is now they have to deal with a decent-sized Infantry squad, then a Vehicle, then Marksman in the back; problems everywhere for them.  Or if you can somehow fit just 1 Armoured Sentinel alongside your Vets and Chimera, now they have 2 Vehicles they have to deal with.

 

TL;DR - I think you play really well with your Vets + Chimera setup, just swap the plasma guns (which IMHO never gets the bang for the buck in our experience) and try to squeeze in some Ratling Snipers or an Armoured Sentinel for an added dimension of threat.

[MagicHat]

 

 

- That last battle you described, I think with AdMech Electro Priests, was just your opponent having insanely good luck

 

 

Sounded like Sicarian Infiltrators with taser and flechette blasters.

[WarriorFish]

Such is the nature of the game, and the whims of the dice gods :P Chimera Vets are good in KT with the limited points, but Sentinels are also good especially Armoured ones. The main issue with KT is that it's easy to abuse for some armies, and some people always will. I think you did well all things considered and I'm tempted to try Ratlings next game so this might make me see if anyone is interested in a bit of KT again :)

[march10k]

Hi, I'm a contributor to the Kill Team Tactica at http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Kill_Team_Tactica_(for_Warhammer_40,000_7th_edition)

Before you look at that, let me say I think you did really well against your opponents:

- Nurgle Bikers are tough, but so costly that they are few in number, which is their flaw as you successfully found

- Eldar are just OP even in Kill Team due to their mobility. A lot of their units have harassment tricks like you saw

- That last battle you described, I think with AdMech Electro Priests, was just your opponent having insanely good luck

Veterans in a Chimera are a good choice for exactly the reasons you specified; I completely agree with you and so do the other collaborators in that article. There, we had an On & Off Relationship with them as the top recommended units for a long time. What took them off was that Space Marine SCOUTS, for being just a little bit more expensive, offered so much more with the official Kill Team rules you're using (where Infiltrate is now allowed and quite OP), then with the latest SM Codex where Scouts got a huge buff for no points increase.

Armoured Sentinel and Ratling Scout Spam is...pretty good, if you have the Armoured Sentinels already. As you noticed, not many players think about Vehicles and come unprepared. Even if they remember, they can only fit so many anti-vehicle weapons in their list, so multiple AV12 Vehicles can really screw opponents (myself included) up. The other benefit of Armoured Sentinels is that, as Vehicles, they don't take Break Tests. All that said, a SM Scout horde, Swooping Hawks, etc. are a hard-counter to that.

IMHO, you seem to be a really good Guard player, succeeding with the Veteran Squad + Chimera setup. It seems to work for you better than other people. Maybe if you can take out the plasma guns and some other upgrades, you can fit just 3 Ratling Snipers like you were thinking about? In the scenarios you described, the Snipers would have really threatened the Nurgle Bikers and AdMech. The idea is now they have to deal with a decent-sized Infantry squad, then a Vehicle, then Marksman in the back; problems everywhere for them. Or if you can somehow fit just 1 Armoured Sentinel alongside your Vets and Chimera, now they have 2 Vehicles they have to deal with.

TL;DR - I think you play really well with your Vets + Chimera setup, just swap the plasma guns (which IMHO never gets the bang for the buck in our experience) and try to squeeze in some Ratling Snipers or an Armoured Sentinel for an added dimension of threat.

Thanks for the positive reinforcement, I've been playing guard since 1998, I would hope not to suck by now As for the plasma, 30 points is a huge chunk out of the 200, I see your point, and AP3 is probably wasted a lot of the time...but it did win me the nurgle game, so I'll have to think long and hard on dropping them. The idea of three ratlings instead of 2 plasma guns is VERY attractive. The cover-ignoring autocannon was the star of the show, though, no doubt about that...more effective, yet cheaper. I might consider dropping the forward sentries doctrine, as well, except that I deployed the autocannon (and only the autocannon) outside the chimera in ruins in two of three games...the ten points were well spent just to bump that one unit from 4+ cover to 3+, IMHO. (5+ cover in night fight for men in the open was nice, too, as was 4+ cover for intervening models)

- That last battle you described, I think with AdMech Electro Priests, was just your opponent having insanely good luck

Sounded like Sicarian Infiltrators with taser and flechette blasters.

Yes, they were called infiltrators, now that you mention it...