HeritorA Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Heritor, can you not just accept that people like books that you don't? You don't need to convince people that books they like are bad, just because you dislike them. seems again you misunderstood me - it is not books that bad, it is stories which are growing without any solid point to them and totally unnessessary. The question still stands - how does it happen that Luther does not see Typhon as a self-loving contolling scheming perp? He is not a naive kid. In his years - an old old man, tis a crime of galactic proportions! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4597269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Just because you don't see a point to the story doesn't mean there isn't one. What you find important isn't the same as what others find important. I have no problem with that whole arc, I just wish there were more Blood Angel stories. Also, history is full of people not seeing other people for what they really are while others do. Have you never had a girl friend no one but you liked? And then your friends turned out to be right? It's called Dramatic Irony, knowing the truth as the audience while the character has no idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4597321 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 The tagline of today's advent story actually seems to contradict the "Luther has no misgivings or suspicions about Typhon" argument, doesn't it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4597378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Heritor, can you not just accept that people like books that you don't? You don't need to convince people that books they like are bad, just because you dislike them. seems again you misunderstood me - it is not books that bad, it is stories which are growing without any solid point to them and totally unnessessary. The question still stands - how does it happen that Luther does not see Typhon as a self-loving contolling scheming perp? He is not a naive kid. In his years - an old old man, tis a crime of galactic proportions! I'm very confused by this statement... Surely any story can stand on it's own, they all have a 'point'. Whether they continue the main series is secondary imo. Telling a good story comes first. And in such a huge universe with so many corners there's plenty of interesting stories to tell. Writing off a story as pointless just because it doesn't get us closer to the siege seems silly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4597420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Heritor, can you not just accept that people like books that you don't? You don't need to convince people that books they like are bad, just because you dislike them.seems again you misunderstood me - it is not books that bad, it is stories which are growing without any solid point to them and totally unnessessary. The question still stands - how does it happen that Luther does not see Typhon as a self-loving contolling scheming perp? He is not a naive kid. In his years - an old old man, tis a crime of galactic proportions! I'm very confused by this statement... Surely any story can stand on it's own, they all have a 'point'. Whether they continue the main series is secondary imo. Telling a good story comes first. And in such a huge universe with so many corners there's plenty of interesting stories to tell. Writing off a story as pointless just because it doesn't get us closer to the siege seems silly. The point is not to get to Terra. The point is to get good stories. So far all the Luther stuff was at lest subpar and in general blank and uninteresting. And that's the problem. Add to that how Luther is shown to us - as wise 'all knowing', learning man - that he doesn't see the motives of Lion/Typhon etc. is hilarious at least Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4598030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Couldn't disagree more about "all the Luther stuff was at lest subpar and in general blank and uninteresting". It is one of my most anticipated plotlines. I like the mystery. I like the moral ambiguity of Luther. I like the way Caliban struggles with tradition vs imperial standards, losing their homeworld to offworlder schemes. I like Astelan's power grabs and intrigue. I like the way things might have turned out swaying the arriving Angels if Zahariel hadn't interfered and messed it all up. I like the implications of Typhon having a stake in Caliban in M41. Being wise and learned doesn't give you omnipresence and omniscience, especially not when it comes to a superhuman being such as the Lion who also prides himself on secrecy and is generally a riddle to even his brothers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4598521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Heritor, I think you have a bad case of, "I know what's happening, therefore the characters should know what's happening." If we opened a book called, "The life if Heritors Village" where you in real life were one of the main characters, would you have been right every time? I have a feeling that if we applied your standards to you in the book, we could make the exact same criticisms. "Heritor should have known this! What a pointless story! I thought he was supposed to be intelligent!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4598912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 And it all started with hilarious plot of Emperor nominating Horus as a Warmaster. Surely, being all knowing, super learned and extra intelligent Emperor should have know that Horus was just 'self-loving contolling scheming perp'. HH is so overrated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4598997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Heritor, I think you have a bad case of, "I know what's happening, therefore the characters should know what's happening." If we opened a book called, "The life if Heritors Village" where you in real life were one of the main characters, would you have been right every time? I have a feeling that if we applied your standards to you in the book, we could make the exact same criticisms. "Heritor should have known this! What a pointless story! I thought he was supposed to be intelligent!" Funny and lovely. Should be a nice story. It;s like 'hands off our british stuff. you dont' know :cuss, i'm DC and know everything and Luther story and mystery is epic - cause I say saw, and my tastes in books are the only one in the world'. Why even bother - enjoy 'your victory'. Hope further Caliban plotline - and they wil do more, would be a single bolt of a deathknelt. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4599277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 I don't even have words for those levels of delusion anymore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4599566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 I don't even have words for those levels of delusion anymore. Glad to help. Not everyone enjoy absent storytelling Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4599638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Not worth it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4599642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 And it all started with hilarious plot of Emperor nominating Horus as a Warmaster. Surely, being all knowing, super learned and extra intelligent Emperor should have know that Horus was just 'self-loving contolling scheming perp'. HH is so overrated. LoL, missed that - good healthy sarcasm. At least someone here except Laurie has it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4600418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 To be fair, I just see two sides arguing/expressing differing views...no one is really trying to "convince" the other Chaplain won't be convincing Heritor...Heritor won't be convincing Chaplain I thouht AoC was mediocre...like most of Gav's work. His writing is far less evocative than that of Wraight, Abnett, DB, or French He doesn't draw you into the story the way these writers do. His prose is bland. Curze is a moustache-twirling caricature in AoC...and that's only one problem Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4600438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 To be fair, I just see two sides arguing/expressing differing views...no one is really trying to "convince" the other Chaplain won't be convincing Heritor...Heritor won't be convincing Chaplain I thouht AoC was mediocre...like most of Gav's work. His writing is far less evocative than that of Wraight, Abnett, DB, or French He doesn't draw you into the story the way these writers do. His prose is bland. Curze is a moustache-twirling caricature in AoC...and that's only one problem Yes, yes and yes. It's just really mindblowing for me than someone give praises to the really bad prose and story, instead of praising a truly good one. But yeah - as Laurie sad, we should always use 'In my humble opinion'. It helps Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4600562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 To be fair, I just see two sides arguing/expressing differing views...no one is really trying to "convince" the other Chaplain won't be convincing Heritor...Heritor won't be convincing Chaplain I thouht AoC was mediocre...like most of Gav's work. His writing is far less evocative than that of Wraight, Abnett, DB, or French He doesn't draw you into the story the way these writers do. His prose is bland. Curze is a moustache-twirling caricature in AoC...and that's only one problem Having now read some of his work, I see what you mean about the prose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4602647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceofAllTradez Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 To be fair, I just see two sides arguing/expressing differing views...no one is really trying to "convince" the other Chaplain won't be convincing Heritor...Heritor won't be convincing Chaplain I thouht AoC was mediocre...like most of Gav's work. His writing is far less evocative than that of Wraight, Abnett, DB, or French He doesn't draw you into the story the way these writers do. His prose is bland. Curze is a moustache-twirling caricature in AoC...and that's only one problem It's almost as if Thorpe continuously portrays the lion as being one step away from being super man mixed, and its only when he writes him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4603147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 I honestly think Gav would be better served doing justice to the smaller than life figures like Redloss, Holguin, Astelan and such. I love his handling of them, and less of the primarchs. Curze vs the Lion in Savage Weapons felt more like a Primarch battle than the ending of AoC tbh. Not that the DAs disarming Curze's melts charges wasn't interesting, but was just written poorly. It doesn't feel like the epic ending as in Scars by Wraight when Jaghatai walks up the bridge to apprehend the miscreants in a winner takes all. It felt more like telling rather than showing, which for a BL author, let alone a 7th grade writer, is a sin. Again, I'd be more happy if Thorpe was more involved with the legion, since Alan "Word of God Himself" Bligh isn't there to make the legion awesome cool-sauce just yet. Don't want to be a jerk, but I can't handle Lion Edgy-McEdgelord El'Johnson anymore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4603202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 To be fair, I just see two sides arguing/expressing differing views...no one is really trying to "convince" the other Chaplain won't be convincing Heritor...Heritor won't be convincing Chaplain I thouht AoC was mediocre...like most of Gav's work. His writing is far less evocative than that of Wraight, Abnett, DB, or French He doesn't draw you into the story the way these writers do. His prose is bland. Curze is a moustache-twirling caricature in AoC...and that's only one problem It's almost as if Thorpe continuously portrays the lion as being one step away from being super man mixed, and its only when he writes him. Not super man mixed - but supergirly and batman mixed I honestly think Gav would be better served doing justice to the smaller than life figures like Redloss, Holguin, Astelan and such. I love his handling of them, and less of the primarchs. Curze vs the Lion in Savage Weapons felt more like a Primarch battle than the ending of AoC tbh. Not that the DAs disarming Curze's melts charges wasn't interesting, but was just written poorly. It doesn't feel like the epic ending as in Scars by Wraight when Jaghatai walks up the bridge to apprehend the miscreants in a winner takes all. It felt more like telling rather than showing, which for a BL author, let alone a 7th grade writer, is a sin. Again, I'd be more happy if Thorpe was more involved with the legion, since Alan "Word of God Himself" Bligh isn't there to make the legion awesome cool-sauce just yet. Don't want to be a jerk, but I can't handle Lion Edgy-McEdgelord El'Johnson anymore. Indeed. His Redloss and Holguin are deep and interesting knigthly characters. But Astelan... He is like Doctor Evil, lol. 'Curze vs the Lion in Savage Weapons felt more like a Primarch battle than the ending of AoC tbh' - and one of the best primarchs brawls ever. 'since Alan "Word of God Himself" Bligh isn't there to make the legion awesome cool-sauce just yet.' = HH book 9 from Forge World! Simply can't wait. Sad that it only follows after book 8 about Signus. Knowing how 'often' Forge World HH books are released I could only see that release for 2018 'But I can't handle Lion Edgy-McEdgelord El'Johnson anymore' - same here. Please give me A D-B Highlander/Shao Khan Lion every day Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4603323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 As no fan of Curze or the NL, I was OK with the outcome of the Lion utterly thrashing Curze in AoC ...but it was not written well It's also a but unnecessary. In Prince of Crows, the Lion already destroys Curze and sends him to the emergency room. Did we really need yet another fight with Curze utterly defeated but not dead? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4605186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 As no fan of Curze or the NL, I was OK with the outcome of the Lion utterly thrashing Curze in AoC ...but it was not written well It's also a but unnecessary. In Prince of Crows, the Lion already destroys Curze and sends him to the emergency room. Did we really need yet another fight with Curze utterly defeated but not dead? Exactly. I think A D-B would have done it much better Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4605209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceofAllTradez Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 As no fan of Curze or the NL, I was OK with the outcome of the Lion utterly thrashing Curze in AoC ...but it was not written well It's also a but unnecessary. In Prince of Crows, the Lion already destroys Curze and sends him to the emergency room. Did we really need yet another fight with Curze utterly defeated but not dead? Agreed. At this point the curze vs lion rivalry is a bit overdone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4605278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 As no fan of Curze or the NL, I was OK with the outcome of the Lion utterly thrashing Curze in AoC ...but it was not written well It's also a but unnecessary. In Prince of Crows, the Lion already destroys Curze and sends him to the emergency room. Did we really need yet another fight with Curze utterly defeated but not dead? Agreed. At this point the curze vs lion rivalry is a bit overdone. A bit is overstated I would say massively overused, lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4605284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceofAllTradez Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 As no fan of Curze or the NL, I was OK with the outcome of the Lion utterly thrashing Curze in AoC ...but it was not written well It's also a but unnecessary. In Prince of Crows, the Lion already destroys Curze and sends him to the emergency room. Did we really need yet another fight with Curze utterly defeated but not dead? Agreed. At this point the curze vs lion rivalry is a bit overdone. A bit is overstated I would say massively overused, lol Lol definitely Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4605286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 It's alright, we can be the ones to be right when we say "my dad can beat up your dad." :P Humorously and anecdotally enough, I haven't noticed too many NL players hanging around the heresy forum since that book.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/19/#findComment-4606856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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