helterskelter Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 It's alright, we can be the ones to be right when we say "my dad can beat up your dad." :P Humorously and anecdotally enough, I haven't noticed too many NL players hanging around the heresy forum since that book.... The corpses of your xenos trucking filth will litter the bases of my men!!! Ahem.. The NL have become the heresy bond villain. I think 5 different authors have had a Curze fight or a decently sized NL action at the very least I'm all for coverage, it's great to have more fluff added to the pile, it might be getting to a "stop that, it's silly" point buuuut I think they've been spread too thinly and things have been forgotten that they're capable of. Especially Curze as I've mentioned a couple of times here and there Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4606862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Haven't read all depictions of Curze but imho I prefer ADBs and McNeils Dark King. ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4606933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 McNeill's Dark King was good, but it would've been a better conversation for a command deck instead of on the ground. Instead of being coldly impersonal like Ralph Feinnes shooting the Jewish Engineer in Schindler's List ('We're not going to argue with these people, tear it down and repour the foundation') he's vacillating between prancing around like the joker describing his master plan and making some half-way decent points on the nature of occupation and conquest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4607003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 It's alright, we can be the ones to be right when we say "my dad can beat up your dad." :P Humorously and anecdotally enough, I haven't noticed too many NL players hanging around the heresy forum since that book.... This is attributable to lack of ADB writing them, they have never looked good in the heresy, always getting beat up... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4607184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceofAllTradez Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 It's alright, we can be the ones to be right when we say "my dad can beat up your dad." Humorously and anecdotally enough, I haven't noticed too many NL players hanging around the heresy forum since that book.... This is attributable to lack of ADB writing them, they have never looked good in the heresy, always getting beat up... I think the most humiliating defeat for the NL during the heresy was on pharos. The only one who can truly do them justice is A.D.B It's alright, we can be the ones to be right when we say "my dad can beat up your dad." Humorously and anecdotally enough, I haven't noticed too many NL players hanging around the heresy forum since that book.... Although the Lion did come out on top him and Curze had some extremely good duels up until gav thorpe got a hold of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4607254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 In no way was Pharos a humiliating defeat. Yeah stuff was lost but what was achieved however long it took to occur is more than enough Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4607277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Man, every battle was 'the NL lost 4 or 5 to our single UM' It was ugly. :p I'm not complaining either (watch that clock Laurie) I think its great to see factions sometimes get the short end of the stick. I am quite serious that if ADB released anything NL, they would pick up again in popularity, even if they got smashed in the story. I hope he gets some kickbacks from all the mini's I have bought due to his books... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4607291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceofAllTradez Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 In no way was Pharos a humiliating defeat. Yeah stuff was lost but what was achieved however long it took to occur is more than enough Fair enough I didn't look at it like that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4607292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 It's alright, we can be the ones to be right when we say "my dad can beat up your dad." Humorously and anecdotally enough, I haven't noticed too many NL players hanging around the heresy forum since that book.... This is attributable to lack of ADB writing them, they have never looked good in the heresy, always getting beat up... Didn't they get beaten up in basically every NL book ADB wrote? The trilogy is the fall of the company, with characters dying left and right. Savage Weapons is a brawl where Curze and co get literally beaten up and Curze gets stabbed in the back. Prince of Crows has Curze stabbed into a coma and the fleet gets defeated, with the final charge leading to another big defeat and capture. If anything, in Pharos they are doing massive damage, indulging their appetites and tear down the Pharos itself. They were vile and terrifying, and had to retreat in the end, but oh boy did they do a number on Sotha. Even in Corax: Weregeld they're forcing the Raven Guard into a costly retreat, because they outmaneuvered and outnumbered them. It really isn't as black and white as it may seem on first glance. The Night Lords do their thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4607298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 DC, yes, and it's a testament to his writing that a bunch of losers spike in popularity every time he writes them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4607302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceofAllTradez Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 I think it really comes down to how they get written as ADB happens to write the NL very well in my opinion although they do get smacked in every one of his books. Now that I think of it do they ever have a decisive victory in the heresy so far? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4607305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 I think it really comes down to how they get written as ADB happens to write the NL very well in my opinion although they do get smacked in every one of his books. Now that I think of it do they ever have a decisive victory in the heresy so far? Not that we actually see. They do some things in that story with Vulkan (is it Vulkan Lives?? lol) but you dont actually see anything. Ultimately, lets be honest, their way of making war is not suited for fighting Astartes, they shine against mortals. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4607319 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 They're like a fantasy football team. They put up amazing stats but they lose every week. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4607472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 They're like a fantasy football team. They put up amazing stats but they lose every week. This makes me sad, because the NFL season is drawing towards the end... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4607475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCagh Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 DC, yes, and it's a testament to his writing that a bunch of losers spike in popularity every time he writes them.They beat up the Blood Angels every single time they fought in their omnibus. Two of them kill a whole squad and some initiates of BA's in the very beginnning of the omnibus. Then in the climax battle they are boarded by 30 Blood Angels and a dreadnaught while only having 30 of their own Astartes on board as well as their own dreadnaught. Every Blood Angel is killed and only 2 night lords die (including the NL Dread). The Blood Angles also kill a ten year old girl. Maybe ADB just felt like the Blood Angels needing a good grounding and made them pants-on-head retarded in his Omnibus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4607505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Haven't read all depictions of Curze but imho I prefer ADBs and McNeils Dark King. ^^ Same - and ever will. In no way was Pharos a humiliating defeat. Yeah stuff was lost but what was achieved however long it took to occur is more than enough From the point of view of the HH at the time and 20000 dead Night Lords I sincerely don't think so, lol They're like a fantasy football team. They put up amazing stats but they lose every week. Just lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4610215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Well, sincerely, you're talking wet. The iron warriors lose more than that number for breakfast and still "win" What happens at Pharos: Skraivok gets himself a demon blade (which subsequently leads to him uniting a portion of Night Lords and him being able to lord it over on the Nightfall ) Ultras lose 2 key assets (pharos engine and dantioch) At least as many ultras/fists/DA dead, it looks weighted against the NL because there's more of them than there were NL. The human population of Sotha Terrorised, as any good NL should do. Just because they haven't planted a flag and are sat lording it over a planet it does not mean that a victory was not achieved. And how many more night lords are still about the galaxy? More than enough to go and make a bloody mess somewhere before kicking it back on tsagualsa. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4610288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Well, sincerely, you're talking wet. The iron warriors lose more than that number for breakfast and still "win" What happens at Pharos: Skraivok gets himself a demon blade (which subsequently leads to him uniting a portion of Night Lords and him being able to lord it over on the Nightfall ) Ultras lose 2 key assets (pharos engine and dantioch) At least as many ultras/fists/DA dead, it looks weighted against the NL because there's more of them than there were NL. The human population of Sotha Terrorised, as any good NL should do. Just because they haven't planted a flag and are sat lording it over a planet it does not mean that a victory was not achieved. And how many more night lords are still about the galaxy? More than enough to go and make a bloody mess somewhere before kicking it back on tsagualsa. Nobody cares about Skraivok and his ability to lead anything. At least as many ultras/fists/DA dead - not even close - Ultrasmurfs lost 1 company 'Aegida' and 1 frigate, 1 cruiser - and 500 legionarries wirh them. DA lost 1 strike cruiser - in total loses of loyalist SM are in range of 3000 SM. Nobody cares abou human colonists. Night Lords lost 20k and 4 heavy cruisers + 12 frigates. 'And how many more night lords are still about the galaxy? More than enough to go and make a bloody mess somewhere before kicking it back on tsagualsa.' - after Thramas Crusade and Sotha - a 30k at maximum. The most small Legion after TS now. Your imagination and behavior leads to the resolution - that you are like a small kid, who lost his toys and who rage cause his lovely Legion wasa broken and put into dirt. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4610304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Haha! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4610310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Then in the climax battle they are boarded by 30 Blood Angels and a dreadnaught while only having 30 of their own Astartes on board as well as their own dreadnaught. Every Blood Angel is killed and only 2 night lords die (including the NL Dread). In Blood Reaver (the next book), the NL take a post-battle tally of nearly 30 dead warriors among the NL ...that's about the same number of dead NL as dead BA The kills are just all off-screen so the BA only appear to be incompetent at first glance Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4610385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah32 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 For the record I really liked Skraivok and love the new short story that was released 'The Painted Count'. A conniving, sneaky, slimy character like Skraivok is a perfect fit for leading the night lords, who is better to lead the night lords in the absence of Sevatar and Kurze? My favourite new night lord characters in Pharos however were the twins, bloody loved them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4610415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 For the record I really liked Skraivok and love the new short story that was released 'The Painted Count'. A conniving, sneaky, slimy character like Skraivok is a perfect fit for leading the night lords, who is better to lead the night lords in the absence of Sevatar and Kurze? My favourite new night lord characters in Pharos however were the twins, bloody loved them They were written brilliantly. Skraivok on other side - just an arrogant scum. Then in the climax battle they are boarded by 30 Blood Angels and a dreadnaught while only having 30 of their own Astartes on board as well as their own dreadnaught. Every Blood Angel is killed and only 2 night lords die (including the NL Dread). In Blood Reaver (the next book), the NL take a post-battle tally of nearly 30 dead warriors among the NL ...that's about the same number of dead NL as dead BA The kills are just all off-screen so the BA only appear to be incompetent at first glance Exactly. Bowden himself said that he pinpointed that for readers to see that it was a hard fight. Cause in his first book it looked really one-sided Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4610435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCagh Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 That makes much more sense. I was forgetting they got reinforced by the Warbands they picked up from the surface. So at the end they had about the same numbers as they did in the beginning. (I think Talos says something like 60 Astartes). But that's because they lost 30 to the BA, but then gained 30 from the other Warband. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4610829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 That makes much more sense. I was forgetting they got reinforced by the Warbands they picked up from the surface. So at the end they had about the same numbers as they did in the beginning. (I think Talos says something like 60 Astartes). But that's because they lost 30 to the BA, but then gained 30 from the other Warband. Void Reaver had a good point mentioning that. And additional warband took direct losses instead of Talos Claw Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4611506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Point stands, Night Lords get punked hard but due to the writing standard applied to them often, they remain popular. I actually think they are the most self aware legion when written well, and the fans of the legion get that vibe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322826-angels-of-caliban-spoilers/page/20/#findComment-4612208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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