Brothers Help Me Decide

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Brothers of Sanguinuis,

 

I am having a crisis of faith if you will. I will confess I have a loves of Jump Packs that goes to when I first started the game. I don't care that they are "subpar" in many circumstances. I don't care that they are all in FA slots now besides our crammed elite slot.

 

I have figured out ways of making it work yet something doesn't seem to mesh. I don't know if it is the shiny new formations or what but I see what the Ravenspire has and I must admit I am torn not to join them. I know of all the true brother answers. Wait for better rules new supplements etc. My issue though is from a fluff perspective I love them both our brothers in black and those in red as well. As my name implies I am a Dark Angel first but once again a jump pack fetish is for me.

 

So I ask when looking at an army composing of 80 - 90% jump infantry do I stick with draw of blood or do I fade to shadows?

 

Since BandC is my Warhammer home and I have gotten the best advice and seen it given I put it to you  brothers (and sisters) do I join my Jumpers here or to the shadows?

 

Please no flame wars but all opinions welcome.

 

My meta is non existent at the moment and I do not have the money nor time to do both. I also am a fluff player yet still want to TAC and be able to not get steam rolled.

 

So please help me decide Angels or Ravens?

 

[Charlo]

You've come to the Angels section and so I say Angels.

 

Plus there are only two jump units in the marine codex.

 

We get Five:

 

Assault Squad

Vanguard Veterans

Sanguinary Guard

Death Company

Command Squad

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

To be fair and honest to all I posted in both forums.

 

So which formation or Strike Force should I use? Should I even use one or just go CAD?

 

One thing I did not post was my wife got me Dante already and I have a ton of Jump Packers set and ready to go. If I go BA I think it will be as a Flesh Tearer at least in colors.

[Quixus]

On top of that we have nice characters and relics that get them to the enemy more reliably. Mainly Dante (or any HQ with the right warlord trait roll) and the Angel's Wings. One reduces scatter for deep striking jump units and the other allows rerolls for scatter and the mishap table and forces interceptors to snap fire.

 

BSF is great against MEQ, otherwise not so much. It gives an extra elites slot though.

 

With the FTSF you could make an all jumpers list. JP HQ, Rafen's DC and an assault squad as mandatory choices.

[Charlo]

Well it depends!

 

Our formations are.... Eh. Not great. An army of all jumpers will be small (ish) but very mobile, though lack the straight up firepower of normal lists.

 

a CAD won't really offer you much... Unless you go meta with the Veritas for lots of re-rolls to get infiltrate warlrd trait but I digress.

 

The Flesh Tearers strike force isn't bad, only on compulsory troop and one compulsory fast attack & HQ. And an additional 5 Fast attack for assault squad spam.

 

Or the Baal Strike Force will give you the +1 Initiative on the charge that we are known for.

 

Alternatively, mix all three! But the more detachments you have, the more troops you'll need - and they don't jump!

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Here is my optimistic point of view: If ASM is your thing, I would recommend some of the Shield of Baal formations. Flesh Tearers have some great options as you can take the old Descent of Angels list from 5th edition with it. Our 5 man assault squads can take 4x melta 2xplasma guns 2xplasma pistol, as well as Hand Flamers, flamers.

 

There is a lot of utility there, and our death company can hit like a freight train. Not to mention you can splash in power fists and the like and they can't get challenged out. I personally like a strike force Mortalis with a DOA flesh Tearers strike force. The locator beacons on the drop pods allow your Jumpers to DS and nuke stuff. All the while you have a Chappy (which sates your space catholic love as well ;)) with some goodies to boot!

 

Dante is amazing doubly so for this list!

 

Now the down sides; we don't get eviscerators, or the assault from deep strike formations. Our "chapter tactics" are one where you HAVE to win the assault versus getting fleet lite, getting to use your JPs in multiple phases etc from the vanilla dex.

 

Edit: Codex: Space Marines ASM are cheaper by 3 melta bombs, but don't get inferas pistols, or hand flamers, but 1 in 5 can take eviscerators that can't be challenged out if you want a specialist melee weapon that hits hard but worried about being challenged.

 

So it really boils down to what you want out of your ASM list.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Hmmm you gents give me a lot too chew on I appreciate it. I do love Fear to Tread and am starting to lean towards BA if I'm honest. Now with the BSF would the DC from Deathstorm and Cassor (spelling?) the DC dread count for the Troop slot? If so do I put him in a pod and have everything try and come in after he drops like a giant distractofex?

 

Now that I think on it BA do have some awesome options if I want to go Drop pod heavy later on when I can afford them.

 

Don't Be: Sorry but what is the DOA Flesh Tearers force? Also what is the Mortalis force? I am way behind on supplements though I know a bit.

 

Truthfully I just found out the SHield of Baal is space bugs vs. BA and my kids would probably love space bugs when they get bigger (what kids don't like space dino's?)

[Charlo]

To answer your first question, yes, Rafens death company and cassor the dammed are both troop choices.

 

Cassors pod will take up a separate fast attack choice though.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

DOA is descent of Angels. You scatter 1 less D6 from deep strike.

 

In 5th edition you could deep strike all your troops/ASM and they would only scatter D6. Strike force mortalis is 1 storm Raven, 2 death company dreads 2 units of death company and a chaplain with no restrictions. They gain crusader, and fury of the forlorn which is basically rampage lite. Any battle in which the aforementioned models are out numbered in close combat they get +1 to their attacks as long as they don't have rampage. You can take drop pods (if you wish) for the dreads and give them locator beacons.

 

So basically the army is built around your deep strike having pin point accuracy. And you can control the movement of your boys in red as they are super fast etc. it isn't as strong as it used to be, but it is brilliantly fun!

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

That sounds excellent. I do believe Flesh Tearers will be my thing. Now comes the question of BSF or FTSF. Mortalis looks good but I think I will have to wait a bit on it.

 

Now my drop pod senses are tingling and I'm pouring over the codex lol. Wife is looking at me with a weird eye I do believe the Rage is coming over me.

[Quixus]

Edit: Codex: Space Marines ASM are cheaper by 3 melta bombs, but don't get inferas pistols, or hand flamers, but 1 in 5 can take eviscerators that can't be challenged out if you want a specialist melee weapon that hits hard but worried about being challenged.

Codex ASM don't even get Meltaguns. IIRC there is a thread in the Adeptus Astartes section saying that Eviscerators are not that great and overpriced.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

 

Edit: Codex: Space Marines ASM are cheaper by 3 melta bombs, but don't get inferas pistols, or hand flamers, but 1 in 5 can take eviscerators that can't be challenged out if you want a specialist melee weapon that hits hard but worried about being challenged.

Codex ASM don't even get Meltaguns. IIRC there is a thread in the Adeptus Astartes section saying that Eviscerators are not that great and overpriced.

 

I disagree, but that's me. I think they are good, as it gives you reliable strength 8 that can't be challenged out. I just look at it as a power fist that's not on a sergeant, much like death company and power fists. I realize they don't get as many attacks, but its subjective, and based on experience with using them or not.

[Xenith]

 

I disagree, but that's me. I think they are good, as it gives you reliable strength 8 that can't be challenged out. I just look at it as a power fist that's not on a sergeant, much like death company and power fists. I realize they don't get as many attacks, but its subjective, and based on experience with using them or not.

 

On a basic guy, that's 2S8 attacks on the charge, for 5 melta bombs. 20 would put them in an interesting place, and 15 would be an auto take for me.

 

Regarding the OP...

 

Fluff wise, what chapter do you like the most?

 

Paint up a test marine from each. You might go BA, but realise you hate painting red. Likewise, you might find your black flat and boring.

[Charlo]

 

 

I disagree, but that's me. I think they are good, as it gives you reliable strength 8 that can't be challenged out. I just look at it as a power fist that's not on a sergeant, much like death company and power fists. I realize they don't get as many attacks, but its subjective, and based on experience with using them or not.

 

On a basic guy, that's 2S8 attacks on the charge, for 5 melta bombs. 20 would put them in an interesting place, and 15 would be an auto take for me.

 

Regarding the OP...

 

Fluff wise, what chapter do you like the most?

 

Paint up a test marine from each. You might go BA, but realise you hate painting red. Likewise, you might find your black flat and boring.

 

 

For those 5 melta bombs you get a melta gun and inferno pistol.

 

Spread across two wounds (well, 1.5 as you are doubling up pistols...) plus they don't have to charge, so can potentially be effective from deep strike with a pack or pod etc.

 

Remember though, you can always make a successor too of your own colours! 

[Bukimimaru]

Take the Flesh Tearers detachment.

HQ - chaplain, captain, librarian, priest or any number of names characters all have access to jump packs.

Elites - Death Company, Sanguinary Guard, Vanguard vets and command squads all have access to jump packs.

Troops - We only have one troop option that has jump packs - Raffen's Death Company. fortunatly you only need one troop choice in the FT detachment.

Fast attack - Assault Marines.

 

Behold; an all jumpers list. It's not going to win a national tourney, but you'd be hard pressed to find any other army that lets you play all jumpers and still have such a variety of awesome looking models to play with. :)

[Charlo]

Well now I want to do this.

 

• Take Dante
• Deep strike everything
• ?????
• Profit!

[Boudan]

Also: BLOOOOOOOD

[CaptainHelion]

 

Well now I want to do this.

 

• Take Dante
• Deep strike everything
• ?????
• Profit!

 

 

All I can say is

 

 

 

 

 

BRING IT

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Lol nice! Now a question I have is do VV do anything for us that Sang Guard don't? I was thinking maybe as a Captain Command squad since our Command Squad is a bit meh I believe. Or is the FNP buff worth it over SS for VV?

 

I always wanted a flying landraider.

[Xenith]

Lol nice! Now a question I have is do VV do anything for us that Sang Guard don't? 

 

Stormshields, grav pistols, basic dudes to absorb bullets.

[Charlo]

Lol nice! Now a question I have is do VV do anything for us that Sang Guard don't? I was thinking maybe as a Captain Command squad since our Command Squad is a bit meh I believe. Or is the FNP buff worth it over SS for VV?

 

I always wanted a flying landraider.

 

With a little searching you'll find numerous topics on VV and what they mean for us.

 

Generally, they are VERY expensive, espeically now that the vanilla codex gets power weapons for 5 points and we pay 15....

 

So what do they bring? Storm shields & special pistols (GRAV).

 

They can use a grav pistol or two to concuss an enemy monstrous creature and then assault it with high Strength, low initiative weapons with impunity, while talking it's hits with storm shield 3++

 

They can also do this (and I use any excuse to post this squad as the other BA dudes will tell you):

 

That is 9 Hand Flamers and a Relic Blade

 

http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah177/nevscorner/20151115_163759_zpsumqrfkx7.jpg

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

To quote my best 300 voice "Glorious!" One of my favorite things was the Hand Flamers good to know they are getting used heavily.

 

So if I plan to give my Captain a Relic Blade and SS Attaching him to a VV squad with SS and another Relic plus a few Grav Pistols would be a decent escort unit? Do you think adding a Sang Priest to said unit is too many eggs in one basket? My other big squad I believe would be a Large (about 10) DC squad that I may or may not add a Chappy too (Mortalis is looking better by the minute) and possibly a unit of Sang Guard. I might just live with a squad of Tac's in BBQ mode with Moriar in pod then as many Assault Marines as I can fit. Possibly a few five man DC's for flavor.

 

What Say you all?

[Servant of Dante]

 

Lol nice! Now a question I have is do VV do anything for us that Sang Guard don't? I was thinking maybe as a Captain Command squad since our Command Squad is a bit meh I believe. Or is the FNP buff worth it over SS for VV?

 

I always wanted a flying landraider.

 

With a little searching you'll find numerous topics on VV and what they mean for us.

 

Generally, they are VERY expensive, espeically now that the vanilla codex gets power weapons for 5 points and we pay 15....

 

So what do they bring? Storm shields & special pistols (GRAV).

 

They can use a grav pistol or two to concuss an enemy monstrous creature and then assault it with high Strength, low initiative weapons with impunity, while talking it's hits with storm shield 3++

 

They can also do this (and I use any excuse to post this squad as the other BA dudes will tell you):

 

That is 9 Hand Flamers and a Relic Blade

 

http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah177/nevscorner/20151115_163759_zpsumqrfkx7.jpg

Whenever Charlo posts this picture, I have to post this one. ALL THE PLASMA!!!

 

[Damon Nightman]

That plasma squad would be so scary for me to run personally lol. I'm always worried about using plasma because I'm gonna melt my own guys die to poor rolling haha

[Quixus]

I wonder when someone builds a squad with grav gunslingers.