Common errors when writing Space Marine characters

[Welcheren]

As a sidebar, I love how this thread has evolved into something that might benefit prospective writers.

[bluntblade]

Thank you. He's probably the Astartes character I've put the the most time into, and it's been fun to develop him over time

[Badass_Spaz]

Marines, for me anyway, have always been a peculiar bunch of characters in themselves. I see how some might perceive them as asocial recluses while others could easily characterize them as your or me. Honestly, I'd lean more towards the pragmatic side of things. Marines are all about efficiency, in or out of warzones. They're obviously fearless, overbearing individuals yet seem humble at the same time. They know what they are and know what role they play. So, I think personally would derive from their experiences and Chapter culture itself. Years of fighting and witnessing Dark Eldar atrocities could desensitize a Marine's to a point that unaugmented humans might be akin to simple prey while fighting beside brave Guardsmen would bring about a degree of pride for humanity as a whole. That's where I think you can begin building character and how one might react to others... Food for thought.

This might have been mentioned but I'm only just beginning to read everything in this thread, and I must say, it's damn fascinating.

[bluntblade]

Seeing as people asked for exactly what had happened to Odyssalas, here's the scene I've written with him for the ambush: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/320524-brotherhood-of-the-lost-the-stories/page-2?do=findComment&comment=4373227

[Welcheren]

Thanks Bluntblade. Will get to such as soon as RL permits. I have been engaged in the (to me) exacting business of changing primarch from Guilliman to the Lion.

[simison]

Thanks Bluntblade. Will get to such as soon as RL permits. I have been engaged in the (to me) exacting business of changing primarch from Guilliman to the Lion.

 

Come again?

[Welcheren]

Apologies for the opacity.

 

I just meant that I would read Bluntblade's piece when real life permits.

 

Also, I just mentioned as an offhand remark that after four years' loyalty, I am changing from a vanilla Novamarine force to a DIY successor of the Dark Angels.

[bluntblade]

Rereading MoM drew my attention to something that goes for some Chapters and Legions as well as Custodes - calm in chaos, an ability to compartmentalise when it would just overwhelm mortals.

 

You know the Battle of Stirling (you forgot about the Bridge bit) in Braveheart? You know how Mel Gibson is bellowing "hold... hold!" A space doesn't need that. He is told to hold once, he holds.

[Brother Emund]

Sorry if my view has already been covered but I have been away for a (long) while.

Having served in the military, I would class Space Marines as elite-level (or those who think they are elite) troops. I think of British para's and Marines. The SAS or SBS are not counted because they are usually far different, as I will cover shortly.

 

My experiances with para's or Marines is that if you have not done the training that they have done then you are not worth a second look. Non-Para's/marines are known as 'Crap hats'. These guys only mix with their own and treat the rest with distain. There are exceptions here of course, but that is generally how they are. They are also closer and tight-knit than most other units.

 

The specialists in the SBS/SAS have no need to prove anything what-so-ever and are generally more easy-going and easier to get along with... if you can find them!

 

Space Marines would not mix with 'mortals' generally because they have so little in common and are far ahead and beyond them. That saying, I am sure some of them could be approached... except the Wolves of course, who would just rip you to pieces!

Also, I think in exposed and prolonged combat where Marines and mortal troops are side by side there would be common ground and experiances so the bridge between mortal and trans-human would probably be bridged. They are all (technically) brothers-in-arms afterall.

[Welcheren]

Always useful to hear from someone with real world experience.

[bluntblade]

Remembered something that echoes the above observation - in Horus Rising, Loken is vaguely troubled - wrestling with an urge to disgust? - when a man expresses irrational fear.

[Welcheren]

I remember. That was a great scene.

[Lucifer216]

A few of my personal bug-bears:

 

Why are Chaplains, who are supposedly selected for their charisma and stirring rhetoric, so often presented as unlikeable gits, who act like the type of commissar who gets instantly fragged in the trenches? How often do we get to see them tend to the spiritual anguish of their flock? The infantryman's tragedy is that so much of his sense of self is defined by his physicality, and yet unlike athletes he continually is put into situations where all that hard-won toughness and skill can be lost in an instant. If that's the case for mortal men, how worst must it be for a crippled Astartes, one that's too broken to keep up with his peers but not broken or famed enough to be made dreadnought? What of the loss of one's battle-brothers or a sacred relic, perhaps a banner that embodies the honour of a company or whole chapter? Chaplains offer a great way for a protagonist to give voice to his fears and doubts and can be used as part of a redemptive plot-arch but their potential is never really realised. 

 

One of the other things that I dislike is when chapter politics occupies too much of the dialogue, especially if it starts to undermine the feel of the chapter. Space Marines are the Angels of Death, not whiny high school girls vying to be prom queen. However, this can very much depend on prose-style and other factors. For example, James Swallow's first Blood Angels trilogy focuses on an incredibly divisive moment in their history, while Legion of the Damned by Rob Sanders focuses on a character who has lost the good-will and respect of his own men. The politicking in the first was painful to read, in part because it just didn't feel like a good fit for the Blood Angels chapter. In contrast, I loved the brutality, surliness and insubordination of the Excoriators in Sanders' novel because it felt like part of a consistent vision of how the chapter works. 

 

On the positive side, one of the things that in my opinion made Ian Watson's Space Marine such a great read is the way that its homo-eroticism and the way that its characters had severe personality flaws made it more realistic. We are talking about men who have been killing to survive (or for thrills) for as long as they can remember, who were brutalised and underwent traumatic surgical procedures as adolescents and have their sex-drive assimilated and redirected into veneration of their primarch, brotherhood and the joy of the kill. 

 

Regarding making Imperial Guard and other humans feel relevant to a space marine focused story – there's quite a few literary levers at our disposal. Specialist knowledge and training are one – perhaps there's a specific environmental or psychic hazard that the space marines need a local guide to navigate through or their job is to escort a tech-priest of the Mechanicus to perform a rite of activation. Another issue is the sheer size of space marines. It might be that human specialists have to accompany them in some environments just to deal with areas where Astartes can't go. 

[bluntblade]

Lucifer, excellent points. Can I ask who you're thinking of in particular viz Chaplains?

[Lucifer216]

I'm not really thinking of any specific chaplain, but one of the more glaring examples of this issue are the Blood Angel Wardens in Fear to Tread.

 

However, there's also Iron Father Gdolkin in the rather painful Iron Hands by Jonathan Green.

 

I feel a bit bad in using Swallow to highlight examples of poor writing so often - he did a great job with Flight of the Eisenstein.

 

I will always have a chip on my shoulder as because he got assigned the Blood Angels by Black Library, it may be that the legion/chapter will never get the HH Ultramarines/White Scars/World Eater/Night Lord treatment (in which the spark of life is breathed into the legion through the combination of excellent prose and an author willing to explore and develop its soul).

[bluntblade]

My main issue with Swallow is that he didn't delve into the DG as Wraight did. I can picture more interesting ways to handle them in FotE, albeit coloured by hindsight.

 

You've given me food for thought regardless, as so far the only Chaplain I've written is a grumpy chap who gives the lead (from a different Legion) an insensitive hearing. Now I'm wondering how to make him look to his own warriors and justify his position.