Hypothesising a BA Start Collecting! Set

[Frater Antodeniel]

Either the Rule Team have a Teeth against Blood Angels or no creativity....No really, was it hard to do a rule like :

 

"For the Chapter ! : Once per turn/game, your Captain can order your Baal Predator and Tactical Squad to focus their fire power upon one enemy unit. This formation tactical squad count has having the Relentless special rule when charging the focused enemy unit"

 

BAM ! Here is what a fluffy, and not broken rule look like !"

[Damon Nightman]

 

 

"However, where it gets depressing is compared to other Start Collecting! Formation special rules. "

 

Well - it's getting depressing when you can simply take sanguinary prist and have all your fnp and +1 ws for all battle - without need to take a baal which is even more tax in this formation or captain in terminator armour.

 

It's not a 4th edition - captain in 7th edition can have artificier armour and sweeping advance, consider - this captain will be with tactical squad.

But then they can't push the tda Capt that no one has bought cuz they either got it in deathstorm, hate the pose, or don't want a tda Capt in a BA army.

 

The Baal probably isn't selling especially well either which would be easily rectified if we had a formation or squadron benefits or if the didn't take scout away

So maybe (i am not an expert you know) but maybe they should just make an intresting rule that would allow players to enjoy their games?))

Still will buy this box.

Miniature-wise it's a great deal

I completely agree with you on all of it! I was just trying to find some logical reasons which don't really exist besides "we want to sell these models cuz no one is buying them"

 

The rule thing is baffling but my theory is gw must think we are already super strong so giving us s good bonus would put us over the top, which would be ridiculous for them to actually believe that.

 

Or they just don't care about BA really and just threw some rules at it without thinking

[Frater Antodeniel]

You know what ?

 

If the rules are sadly true, then i will email an Open Letter to GW. Telling them that i was interrested to comeback to fantasy alongside 40k, interrested to buy and paint those magnificient Sylvaneth incoming miniatures, but, thanks to the fact that i cannot have fun playing my main army (BA^^), i will delay those buying for a time, that may never come.....

 

I provided Games Workshop with a Blood Angels Errata and a Flesh Tearers Supplement, both work of quality, and yet, the rule team appears to have took care of none.

 

So, it is Sad to say, but, the rule team actually froze me of further investments....i was ready to support the Company, notably after the recent Brexit and its consequences....yet, the rule team froze me.

 

I can barely play, have little to no fun, so why would in invest more ? THANKS TO THE RULE TEAM =).

[Dont-Be-Haten]

There's just isn't any thing positive I can say about this.

 

Someone pass a memo to the writers it is Blood Angels, not Lamenters. ;(

[Hannibaal]

I do like that, the Start Collecting! Lamenters box set.  On another note, could this just be someone having a laugh at our expense? 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I do like that, the Start Collecting! Lamenters box set. On another note, could this just be someone having a laugh at our expense?

I truly hope so.

[Kyrne]

Dunno, it looks legit.

[Phiasco]

... On another note, could this just be someone having a laugh at our expense?

Oh please oh please

[The4thHorseman]

Well, could make a point with our wallets, like people have been doing with Video Game Preorders, unless of course this box ends up being good value, at least as raw minis are concerned.

[Charlo]

Well, could make a point with our wallets, like people have been doing with Video Game Preorders, unless of course this box ends up being good value, at least as raw minis are concerned.

 

It's great value!

 

Just the bonus formation rules are a little poor.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

 

 

Well, could make a point with our wallets, like people have been doing with Video Game Preorders, unless of course this box ends up being good value, at least as raw minis are concerned.

It's great value!

 

Just the bonus formation rules are a little poor.

Maybe I can talk my mates into letting me have a priest in TDA and maybe they'll let me take it permently

[NTaW]

I think I liked it more when the core boxes like this had a little more use. I'll nab up one of these for sure, but two or three? To get a bunch of static-pose TDA Captains?? When I got back into this hobby I had no doubts about buying two of our army boxes at the time. 20 Tacticals, 10 Assault, 10 DC, 2 Rhinos. Worth every penny and a similar deal financially to what we see here. No Formations that crush people's will to play an army, no static pose unique characters re-branded because their rules were that blah...

 

I'm gunna go paint some X-Wing ships, maybe finish my Doom Scythe so I can run some aesthetically pleasing games of Stormcould Attack. Usually I'm a bit more positive than this but today's FAQ draft and SC Formation rule leaks have got me down.

[Damon Nightman]

Well, could make a point with our wallets, like people have been doing with Video Game Preorders, unless of course this box ends up being good value, at least as raw minis are concerned.

i feel like people not buying will make them think people are losing interest in BA and give them an excuse to black templar us. I highly doubt they would even factor in the rules portion being the reason. They must not realize how terrible it is or just dont care since it's only a start collecting box. Saving all the good stuff for the new dex/supplement, at least thats what i'm telling myself...

 

box is def still great value 

[Canadian_F_H]

Well... I have the recent space hulk blood angels, and my brothers old blood angels... 2 tactical squads, a predator annihilator (old metal turret with old, now 30k mark rhino chassis) assorted officers and some deathcompany. Plus the contents of deathstorm... maybe if I want to actually turn it into an army I might pick this up... and the codex ×whince×

[ThatOneMarshal]

There's a really simple way to fix this formation. Just make it permanent around an objective. Boom done.

[appiah4]

I just woke up to this news..  Holy crap GW, well done.  This is by far the worst Start Collecting set with by far the worst rules, you truly must hate BA with a passion.

[Charlo]

Right guys, I know I've been guilty of it too, even falling to the rage in one of my previous posts... But!

 

The rules are there. We can't change them. Let's keep it constructive. We are one of the more positive forums (... Normally!) so let's keep our high standards intact.

 

Plus, really, how many competitive players are going to be using those start collecting formations in the army? They're just a bit of fun.

[appiah4]

Right guys, I know I've been guilty of it too, even falling to the rage in one of my previous posts... But!

 

The rules are there. We can't change them. Let's keep it constructive. We are one of the more positive forums (... Normally!) so let's keep our high standards intact.

 

Plus, really, how many competitive players are going to be using those start collecting formations in the army? They're just a bit of fun.

 

Ok, again, being a starter box is not an excuse for being useless.  If anything, it's an even greater sin.  Starter boxes should be useful to induct new players.  It's like Ford made a car for driver newbies that does not have rear mirrors and we are trying to shrug it off because experienced drivers can do without them.

[Jolemai]

Folks, at the end of the day this set and Formation isn't really aimed at us. To quote my opening gambit and one that the jeske wrote in the NR&A:

 

 

*** I should point out that in my opinion, a Start Collecting kit is designed to introduce you to the game, so there wont be a mass of special rules. So I feel the models would all be generic/basic and the Formation would only have one easy to use/remember rule.

 

 

 

 

 

 
I have been wondering, I seems like the starter sets are not actualy ment to be for playing, but to show how a faction is. And truth be told, they do a superior job at it[and no this is not sarcasm]. The marine get extra shoting[and a lot of marine armies are about re-rolls boosting shotinng], the SW has TWC with uber rules[and a lot of SW armies use TWC deathstars], etc. What is more interesting the factions that are bad, do get worse/bad rules and give a perfect feel of how the army feels[not plays, that is impossible to do with so few models]. I do not know if this was intentional, but it is a good thing. Better someone buy a starter set of BA, play with them a few time vs a friend, and then switch to something else, then start up with 1500pts and find out how good those are.

 

This set serves two purposes. The first is that it's a deal to encourage people to buy and the second is to give them an idea of what our Faction is about. So you get a generic HQ (and importantly, the only generic BA one without special rules), a Troop choice (that everyone needs) and a Faction-specific toy. This is then all wrapped up with a rule to give you an idea of our Faction - like it or not, Feel no Pain is synonymous with our Faction (and there's Furious Charge involved as well).

 

Again, this is not meant to be competitive, it's an introduction to our ways. It was never going to be overpowered and personally, I feel that there's little point comparing it to other sets and getting annoyed as quite frankly, nothing another Faction can do affects us.

[Omega-soul]

Folks, at the end of the day this set and Formation isn't really aimed at us. To quote my opening gambit and one that the jeske wrote in the NR&A:

 

 

This set serves two purposes. The first is that it's a deal to encourage people to buy and the second is to give them an idea of what our Faction is about. So you get a generic HQ (and importantly, the only generic BA one without special rules), a Troop choice (that everyone needs) and a Faction-specific toy. This is then all wrapped up with a rule to give you an idea of our Faction - like it or not, Feel no Pain is synonymous with our Faction (and there's Furious Charge involved as well).

 

Again, this is not meant to be competitive, it's an introduction to our ways. It was never going to be overpowered and personally, I feel that there's little point comparing it to other sets and getting annoyed as quite frankly, nothing another Faction can do affects us.

 

I'am sorry Jolemai, but you are wrong.

 

First - yes the box IS the greatest (and useful) among the space marines - this is a great deal indeed.

Second - if we pretend that rules serve as introduction to a game faction - beginer will throw away this at his second game calling it a very bad word because this formation will suck againts almost all the other start collections (not to mention a usual games)

Third - maybe someone haven't looked around lately but FNP and Furious charge is not our uniqe rules - moreover we are not best at using it. Iron hands are sinonimous of Feel no pain and It will not die - and they great for 2+ in it. Space wolves have their 6+ FNP that can be in any squad, and a plethora of ways to get a furious charge.

Or a White scars that get 24 inch bubble giving furious charge and fleet only for 30 point. And this guys have all the tools to use that furious charge well.

So Blood angels have no discipline in which they are the best. 

We are space marines without special rules doing things that modern space marines shouldn't do - fight in close combat. And if they do fight - they equip themselves with 5 toughness relyable 12 inch movement and a mix of saves.

 

And Four - it's a lie that this is not mentioned to be played competetively - I herad this earlier in 6-ed when the same thing was told about some codicies. And this is wrong - it's not "not meant to be played competetivly" it's a simply sloppy job that needs to be fixed or reworked. There can't be justification for this. Space wolves WILL use their formationa as competetive, necrons, tempestus- it's a great and intresting formations. There is no rerstriction to do a specificly bad formations for start collecting boxes. As there is no restriction to make them simple - Eldar have faeseers - why is that simplier than a librarian? Or a Tyrant? I wouldn't say that it's an easy to control choices.

 

I can't see a point why you keep justifying a bad work Jolemai?

It's so easy to make a great and simple box - tacticals-dread-drop-pod. So you can make from this formation all you want - you have a faction toy - you can make HQ as Librarian dreadnought - and you have a chapter-most-used transport that will actually help you. And you can give a simpliest rules no need to be a genious - re-rolls in close combats or whatever.

Even to this box - give torrent to flamer weapons (even once per game) it would be SO MUCH MORE synergetic - we will shot with fire weaponary as we approach to the enemy - there is no need to have that special rule more than once per game - that would be a nice and clever touch that force any of us buy a several boxes - so everybody would win.

 

But yeah - no need for a GW bashing for bad work - will just keep acting as nothing happened.

[Damon Nightman]

They wanted to prep the new BA players for how bad the rest of our rules are....

 

The only positive thing I can remotely think of is they are saving all of good rules for the next codex, which is a huge stretch and most likely not true at all.

[Charlo]

 

Folks, at the end of the day this set and Formation isn't really aimed at us. To quote my opening gambit and one that the jeske wrote in the NR&A:

 

 

This set serves two purposes. The first is that it's a deal to encourage people to buy and the second is to give them an idea of what our Faction is about. So you get a generic HQ (and importantly, the only generic BA one without special rules), a Troop choice (that everyone needs) and a Faction-specific toy. This is then all wrapped up with a rule to give you an idea of our Faction - like it or not, Feel no Pain is synonymous with our Faction (and there's Furious Charge involved as well).

 

Again, this is not meant to be competitive, it's an introduction to our ways. It was never going to be overpowered and personally, I feel that there's little point comparing it to other sets and getting annoyed as quite frankly, nothing another Faction can do affects us.

 

I'am sorry Jolemai, but you are wrong.

 

First - yes the box IS the greatest (and useful) among the space marines - this is a great deal indeed.

Second - if we pretend that rules serve as introduction to a game faction - beginner will throw away this at his second game calling it a very bad word because this formation will suck against almost all the other start collections (not to mention a usual games).

This is kind of a ridiculous assumption, after two games a new player wont know enough and probably won't be quick to disregard straight away.

Third - maybe someone haven't looked around lately but FNP and Furious charge is not our uniqe rules - moreover we are not best at using it. Iron hands are synonymous of Feel no pain and It will not die - and they great for 2+ in it. Space wolves have their 6+ FNP that can be in any squad, and a plethora of ways to get a furious charge.

Or a White scars that get 24 inch bubble giving furious charge and fleet only for 30 point. And this guys have all the tools to use that furious charge well.

We still have priests that grant a better FNP than wolves. Sure IH have it but we had it first. EVERY ONE of our models have Furious charge without a pre-requisite banner or formation bonus too, so pretty synonymous!

So Blood angels have no discipline in which they are the best. 

We have great reserve manipulation and accurate deep strikes. We have army wide furious charge without upgrades. We have the most special jump troops of anyone. Ball Predator is arguably the best one. We can take a Dreadbought Troops choice. Our LoW is an absolute monster.

We are space marines without special rules doing things that modern space marines shouldn't do - fight in close combat. And if they do fight - they equip themselves with 5 toughness relyable 12 inch movement and a mix of saves.

 

And Four - it's a lie that this is not mentioned to be played competetively - I herad this earlier in 6-ed when the same thing was told about some codicies. And this is wrong - it's not "not meant to be played competetivly" it's a simply sloppy job that needs to be fixed or reworked. There can't be justification for this. Space wolves WILL use their formationa as competetive, necrons, tempestus- it's a great and intresting formations. There is no rerstriction to do a specificly bad formations for start collecting boxes. As there is no restriction to make them simple - Eldar have faeseers - why is that simplier than a librarian? Or a Tyrant? I wouldn't say that it's an easy to control choices.

Do try to remember that not every rule made by GW is made for top-tier competetive play. It's as simple as that really, it's not their modus operandi. And the eldar one DOES have a restriction, it needs to be a farseer on jetbike, like ours needs to be a captain in TDA.

 

I can't see a point why you keep justifying a bad work Jolemai?

It's so easy to make a great and simple box - tacticals-dread-drop-pod. So you can make from this formation all you want - you have a faction toy - you can make HQ as Librarian dreadnought - and you have a chapter-most-used transport that will actually help you. And you can give a simpliest rules no need to be a genious - re-rolls in close combats or whatever.

Even to this box - give torrent to flamer weapons (even once per game) it would be SO MUCH MORE synergetic - we will shot with fire weaponary as we approach to the enemy - there is no need to have that special rule more than once per game - that would be a nice and clever touch that force any of us buy a several boxes - so everybody would win.

 

But yeah - no need for a GW bashing for bad work - will just keep acting as nothing happened.

Again, a lot of the rules designers/ writers may not have control over this or maybe it had to be made in less than an hour. Or maybe it is like Lemartes said and they don't want to give anything away about the new codex.

 

Keep a cool head, keep it constructive. Don't get offended because a small group of models which, lets face it, were you REALLY going to use aren't up to snuff.

 

You aren't going to see a load of Eldar players spamming thier formation just to get twin linked on a single fire prism.

 

Replies in red.

[Damon Nightman]

I get what you mean charlo, but if they were actually given an hour or less to make these rules... Idk that is just lazy and unorganized and not an excuse by any means. That just says "we can't waste too much time on what new BA players will be using for the first time ever, who really cares about rules anyway?"

 

Not that that is what even really happened just wanted to point out how awful that sounded to me.

[Bukimimaru]

Come on fellas!

I know we've been dealt a cruddy had again and again over the last couple of years, but we are Blood Angels!

 

We take the unfair curse that's been cast upon us and we stand proud with dignity and grace!

We disregard the handicap that plagues us and we fight on!

Salvation in the form of a new 'dex is on the horizon and until then we must seize the opportunities we have been given this week!

 

We've battled and seized victory countless times since the current 'dex dropped, and we are stronger now, with improved scouts and dreadnoughts, that at any other time in the last 2 years!

[Frater Antodeniel]

 

 

Folks, at the end of the day this set and Formation isn't really aimed at us. To quote my opening gambit and one that the jeske wrote in the NR&A:

 

 

This set serves two purposes. The first is that it's a deal to encourage people to buy and the second is to give them an idea of what our Faction is about. So you get a generic HQ (and importantly, the only generic BA one without special rules), a Troop choice (that everyone needs) and a Faction-specific toy. This is then all wrapped up with a rule to give you an idea of our Faction - like it or not, Feel no Pain is synonymous with our Faction (and there's Furious Charge involved as well).

 

Again, this is not meant to be competitive, it's an introduction to our ways. It was never going to be overpowered and personally, I feel that there's little point comparing it to other sets and getting annoyed as quite frankly, nothing another Faction can do affects us.

 

I'am sorry Jolemai, but you are wrong.

 

First - yes the box IS the greatest (and useful) among the space marines - this is a great deal indeed.

Second - if we pretend that rules serve as introduction to a game faction - beginner will throw away this at his second game calling it a very bad word because this formation will suck against almost all the other start collections (not to mention a usual games).

This is kind of a ridiculous assumption, after two games a new player wont know enough and probably won't be quick to disregard straight away.

Third - maybe someone haven't looked around lately but FNP and Furious charge is not our uniqe rules - moreover we are not best at using it. Iron hands are synonymous of Feel no pain and It will not die - and they great for 2+ in it. Space wolves have their 6+ FNP that can be in any squad, and a plethora of ways to get a furious charge.

Or a White scars that get 24 inch bubble giving furious charge and fleet only for 30 point. And this guys have all the tools to use that furious charge well.

We still have priests that grant a better FNP than wolves. Sure IH have it but we had it first. EVERY ONE of our models have Furious charge without a pre-requisite banner or formation bonus too, so pretty synonymous!

So Blood angels have no discipline in which they are the best. 

We have great reserve manipulation and accurate deep strikes. We have army wide furious charge without upgrades. We have the most special jump troops of anyone. Ball Predator is arguably the best one. We can take a Dreadbought Troops choice. Our LoW is an absolute monster.

What the point of accurate deep strikes when the Jump Pack units die before being able to charge ? How can we compare Furious charge with Hit and Run + Furious Charge bubble ? We have the most special jump troops ELITE that in fact die as kicly as other Jump Pack units......and the Dreadnought Troop Choice isn't even in the codex....

Only true point, our LOW are indeed true beast, but like the others, they barely Survive to see the Assault Phase...

We are space marines without special rules doing things that modern space marines shouldn't do - fight in close combat. And if they do fight - they equip themselves with 5 toughness relyable 12 inch movement and a mix of saves.

 

And Four - it's a lie that this is not mentioned to be played competetively - I herad this earlier in 6-ed when the same thing was told about some codicies. And this is wrong - it's not "not meant to be played competetivly" it's a simply sloppy job that needs to be fixed or reworked. There can't be justification for this. Space wolves WILL use their formationa as competetive, necrons, tempestus- it's a great and intresting formations. There is no rerstriction to do a specificly bad formations for start collecting boxes. As there is no restriction to make them simple - Eldar have faeseers - why is that simplier than a librarian? Or a Tyrant? I wouldn't say that it's an easy to control choices.

Do try to remember that not every rule made by GW is made for top-tier competetive play. It's as simple as that really, it's not their modus operandi. And the eldar one DOES have a restriction, it needs to be a farseer on jetbike, like ours needs to be a captain in TDA.

 

I can't see a point why you keep justifying a bad work Jolemai?

It's so easy to make a great and simple box - tacticals-dread-drop-pod. So you can make from this formation all you want - you have a faction toy - you can make HQ as Librarian dreadnought - and you have a chapter-most-used transport that will actually help you. And you can give a simpliest rules no need to be a genious - re-rolls in close combats or whatever.

Even to this box - give torrent to flamer weapons (even once per game) it would be SO MUCH MORE synergetic - we will shot with fire weaponary as we approach to the enemy - there is no need to have that special rule more than once per game - that would be a nice and clever touch that force any of us buy a several boxes - so everybody would win.

 

But yeah - no need for a GW bashing for bad work - will just keep acting as nothing happened.

Again, a lot of the rules designers/ writers may not have control over this or maybe it had to be made in less than an hour. Or maybe it is like Lemartes said and they don't want to give anything away about the new codex.

Maybe they will remember some work i sended them month ago and already use it as a basic ? (You know, the Flesh Tearers Supplement ? and maybe also the BA Unofficial Errata ?....)

Keep a cool head, keep it constructive. Don't get offended because a small group of models which, lets face it, were you REALLY going to use aren't up to snuff.

With Jolemai deleting all my post, even the less raging ones were i only ask how we actually could be constructive about the BA new formation that is the Worst of all Get Started range.....Far far away from the Double Shooting phase of the C:SM or the Run and Charge of the SW one.....

You aren't going to see a load of Eldar players spamming thier formation just to get twin linked on a single fire prism.

No indeed, they do not need it, since they already are the Best, unlike Blood Angels that, like you and me, just demand to at least benefits of some good/average rules...

 

Replies in red.

 

 

Correction in green. =)