Pask Punisher worth it ?

[Ferox]

Hi
For starter i never feilded a pask punisher combo, but i have seen alot a battle reps with it.
It seems to me that most of the time Pask never get to choose his target. Due to opponents tactic. Most of the time I see him shooting at targets where he ends up giving 3-4 hits in. (Not counting coversave, armor save).

There for you have alot of point spent on that option.

What is your experience ?
Other Leman russ options with pask who would be better ?

[march10k]

I have never used Pask Punisher.  My analysis of him is that on paper, he can glance a land raider to death in a single round of shooting.  However, the short range of his punisher cannon forces you to rush a vehicle with no WS into the face of the enemy...and inevitably surrender your warlord VP, regardless of what you do or don't kill in the process.  My only warlord under the current codex has been Pask, every single game.  But I field him in a vanquisher.  On its own, that makes him pretty survivable, since he has ridiculously long range.  Combine that with the pressure that I put on the enemy with advancing demolishers (sometimes also an eradicator), and even deepstriking melta will ignore him and go for the target that's right in their face.  That allows him to (basically) autopenetrate AV14 with impunity 5-7x a game with little risk.  Now, he's only AP2, so you still need a 6 to one-shot a land raider, but he and his squadron do pretty well, and he's only died once (against a squadron of tomb blades...no, really, just the tomb blades...that one unit ate my whole army while the rest of the necrons sat in bleachers and cheered them on.  My entire firepower-based army shot at the tomb blades until they died, and I removed one model before being tabled.  Okay, the wraiths and stuff ate the veterans once they were dismounted, but the tomb blades ate every vehicle in my list.)

[GreyCrow]

Totally worth it, but it's an anti-infantry tank. He wiped 8 out of 10 Tactical Marines in a squad in one round of shooting and that was an average roll (forgot about the Rending so was out of cover).

 

He's not going to win the game on his own, but he brings a serious area denial when you want to nope an area to enemy infantry, especially when he covers zones that would force the enemy in the open should they come. Typically used to cover an objective right in the middle of nowhere.

 

Compared to the destructive power of the Demolisher against climped targets, the Punisher with Pask works quite well regardless of unit positioning.

[WarriorFish]

Indeed, he's best blatting infantry as he's very good at it - that he can tackle tanks too is a really nice bonus as it means he can always hurt something :)

[Akrim]

They must be rolling poorly Ferrox. Pask in a Punisher is very good. I usually go with multimelta sponsons and a lascannon, that way he can take out armour too. Lead the squadron with another tank closer to the enemy so it can absorb wounds. An Enginseer with a couple Servitors following behind can keep them rolling a long time.

 

Know your enemy; protect the rear armour by filling in troops behind and keeping enough infantry around him so melta weapons cant get close enough or assault. Be aware of haywire attacks.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Plus the note about watching out for CC is almost irrelevant given the nerf to Grenades, so you basically just need to keep it away from anyone packing a Power Fist or big creatures. Sadly, the FAQ also taketh by removing the 'reroll 1s on Gets Hot' side effect of Preferred Enemy, so I'd avoid Plasma Cannon sponsons on him these days in favour of Multi-Meltas. Add a Lascannon and it gives you an anti-vehicle, monstrous creature and elite infantry unit that's pretty solid.

 

He's also hella expensive in that setup, though, and easy to outmaneuver.

[duz_]

I like Pask in a punisher with plasmacutioner

 

But as mentioned CC is their crux but changes to grenades will help

 

Also the FAQ on PE I'm not sure what I'll take as his side kick in future

 

He's a bit of a point sink but it usually frees up my heavy weapon slots to take 2 individual wyvrens

[Akrim]

I'm a fan of an Eradicator w/ HBs as an escort tank, effective and cheap. Alternatively I still like a bare bones Demolisher too, similar range and deadly S10 ordnance.

[nismogrendel]

Do you guys like to load Pask with upgrades or keep it cheap?

 

Pask in punisher with no sponsons/hull gun upgrade and a demolisher squadmate is pretty cheap.  

 

I also like the loaded down pask with camo net/sponsons/hull gun upgrade/stubber/etc.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Why spend 70pts upgrading your tank's BS and making it a fire magnet if you're not going to invest in that cost? 70pts to make a Vanquisher Cannon get +1BS, Twin-Linked and re-roll to Pen is alright at best. Throw a Lascannon on it, and it's good. Get two Multi-Meltas, and it's an anti-armour beast.

 

But then you have to balance that against the danger of over-investing in it. Really, it depends on the kind of list you're putting together tbh.

[Emicus]

And then there's the cammo netting and Bullgryn squad with Slabshields for 2+ cover and....

 

Suddenly the Pask Vanquisher can be substituted for a Shadowsword with points to spare!

[Akrim]

I'm personally a fan of dual Punishers with HBs in Armoured Co, that's a lot of BS4 S5 bullets lol

[HenricusTyranicus]

I'm a fan of an Eradicator w/ HBs as an escort tank, effective and cheap. Alternatively I still like a bare bones Demolisher too, similar range and deadly S10 ordnance.

Eradicator all the way. It's amazingly cheap, and helps slaughter hordes.

[duz_]

I like my Pask with HBs others prefer lascannon and MMeltas

[morroccomole]

Hi

For starter i never feilded a pask punisher combo, but i have seen alot a battle reps with it.

It seems to me that most of the time Pask never get to choose his target. Due to opponents tactic. Most of the time I see him shooting at targets where he ends up giving 3-4 hits in. (Not counting coversave, armor save).

 

There for you have alot of point spent on that option.

 

What is your experience ?

Other Leman russ options with pask who would be better ?

I'm surprised no one else brought this up. As the Guard, with our endless legions of troops and armor, the ability to fix an enemy on one part of the battlefield can be quite useful. I'm not saying make your expensive HQ Pask into a tarpit, but if your opponent is so focused on that one squad, then use that to your advantage.

[CoffeeGrunt]

I dislike running the Eradicator with Pask in case I fail Gunners Kill On Sight and it has to fire at the same target, which is often a target an Eradicator is useless against. I prefer the vanilla LRBT, because it can feasibly hurt almost anything, so it's not such a loss if it has to fire at Pask's target.

[Akrim]

That's fair, LRBT is relatively inexpensive too.

 

There aren't a lot of bad options, I prob wouldn't use an Exterminator either since it already has the twin link.

[Indefragable]

The Pask-isher is like the meat of a sandwich: it's as much about what else you stuff in there with it that makes all the difference.

 

It's easy to look at things in a vacuum, but I have found that IG in general need army-wide synergy to work. 

 

For example, a single unit of Melta Mech Vets is not going to turn the day. Two of them might get something down, but still, they are NOT SM. However, once you get 4+ of them, suddenly the effect is greater than the sum of its parts. Throw in a mech CCS giving our Orders (basically the Emperor's Blade formation)....and now you have a beast that does work. 

 

Pask-isher is the same. If you take him all by himself, don't expect miracles. Unless you're shooting hordes. Than he is a miracle worker. For me, it's the range more than anything.

If you're plan is to have your tanks be glorified pillboxes sitting back...then the Punisher is not for you. However, if you're looking to play aggressively, then I think 20x S5 Rending, Preferred Enemy shots can deal with quite a few things in the game. 

 

It's as much about when/where/how you use him as it is stats on paper. 

[CommissarZac]

Me I never run him alone I always run him in a squardon of 3 punishers with heavy botlers and stubbers.  This gives me 96 shots.  Mathhammer wins.  The catch......the short range definitely sucks against fellow armor but this squardron makes hoard armies turn tail. 

[CoffeeGrunt]

Mmm, that's a lot of points invested in anti-infantry, and not a lot of those shots hit. :/

[CommissarZac]

I guess it's all in the dice rolls.  I've wiped out a squad of terminators with this as well as a whole mob of orks.  Nids fall even faster to it.

[Emicus]

Well a single Punisher does 20 shots, 10 hits, 6.6 wounds vs Terminators for a statistical 1.1 wounds, add another Punisher, then a third with Bs4 and throw Preferred Enemy on top I can definitively see a statistical probability of slagging a unit of Terminators a turn (without doing the rest of the numbers).

​However the trouble is a single Exterminator is likely to do the same work, if not more, for about a third of the cost :S

[CommissarZac]

Well a single Punisher does 20 shots, 10 hits, 6.6 wounds vs Terminators for a statistical 1.1 wounds, add another Punisher, then a third with Bs4 and throw Preferred Enemy on top I can definitively see a statistical probability of slagging a unit of Terminators a turn (without doing the rest of the numbers).

 

​However the trouble is a single Exterminator is likely to do the same work, if not more, for about a third of the cost :S

your only counting the punisher cannon.  with heavy bolter sponsons and hull weapon plus a heavy stubber thats 12 more shots.

[Akrim]

Yup, I've had Double Pun Pask mow down Riptides on multiple occasions (albeit the MMs/LC did some of the work). The only piece of equipment I tend to go for is Relic Plating.

 

An Enginseer/2 Servitors hiding behind can keep the squadron rolling a long time. It's just important to have good buffer units to prevent fast/DS melta or assault.

[march10k]

Why spend 70pts upgrading your tank's BS and making it a fire magnet if you're not going to invest in that cost? 70pts to make a Vanquisher Cannon get +1BS, Twin-Linked and re-roll to Pen is alright at best. Throw a Lascannon on it, and it's good. Get two Multi-Meltas, and it's an anti-armour beast.

 

But then you have to balance that against the danger of over-investing in it. Really, it depends on the kind of list you're putting together tbh.

 

 

I wouldn't go for the MM sponsons, though...12" range and 48" range are at odds with one another, and if you're willing to deliberately place Pask within 12" of the enemy, you're better off with a punisher.  The whole point of the vanquisher is to autopenetrate (well, virtually) from far outside retaliation range....in fact, when my pasquisher is too far away to supplement the vanquisher cannon with the lascannon, I'm pretty happy about it, it means my warlord points are not at risk!