Brother dean Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Well you're both narrow minded... RWAS (first turn) 4 different (edit: 12" range) DS homers (and Grav) for the DWRF Yes fine, the glass is half empty and "Pure" has gone away... but the glass is half full too and its a nice 18y/o single malt (or beverage of your choice.) Use the detachments... You can run any number of formations/detachments in normal games and most TO's will allow two... None of the above is more than two..... First, there's no reason to be calling someone narrow-minded because they want to play a pure Deathwing army. Second, the solution to not being able to play a pure Deathwing army is obviously not to play a pure Deathwing army. Adding anything to it, by definition, makes it not a pure Deathwing army. I don't think that's news to anyone. Okay, first. Why would you still want to play a "pure" DW army?... Now I say that with 4500 points of DW sitting in my closet. It is hard to play pure and stay competitive and has only gotten worse with Grav.... Second, Well if you see the solution then why are you (in the you as a group not you specifically) still whining about something that has been obvious for not one but TWO codexes?.... Look at what we can do now to wreck face instead of what we have lost. Adapt or die and all that. Its the same song I have been hearing since 3rd completely revamped 40k. Lo there was much gnashing of teeth and ripping off of power fists from assault squads and tac.... Some tactics, rules and characters just go away.. (no! You cannot have my Namaan or Bethor). Please read my earlier post and reconsider your statement. I have. As one of the aforementioned "Purists" you referenced in your post above (and the 4500pts in the closet as proof.) Do none of you other "Purists" not have even ONE bike squadron lying around? Not even a DV set?.... I had a full squadron and a half collected over the 15ish years between my first mini and the advent of "formations". Painting them at the start of 6th got me back into the game. (and a DV set and the DV/DS and the plane kit...) Apologies if I offend. I did not intend to, just was trying to shake the moribund out of their rut. Sometimes holding a mirror up is painful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Ummmm what am I missing here? I don't see any answers that take away from DW, seems like they just gained the ability to actually take a Land Raider now which is a positive. incorrect they just totally didn't In the redemption force now Anyway the faq makes me feel even less interested in playing my angels any longer, after our start collecting box and fenris campaign book happen if things don't change i might jump ship guys, I really will. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin_cse Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Ok I understand that DW only armies taken with the formation/detachment auto lose, but that isn't a change, that is how the rule has always been since the codex came out. That's my point it's not like this FAQ "nerfed" anything, it only allowed the ability to take a LR with the DW now I think the issue is that people were hoping it WOULD change. I, for one, was hoping to be able to play my pure Deathwing again. Well then that's an issue with the people who are hoping for that. These are FAQs, they are not meant to change anything they just clarify rules and in rare cases they issue an errata. In this case I think it's pretty obvious that DW are supposed to be able to take a LR and they just forgot to make that clear in the codex, however it's also clear that their intent was always to have DW be a support force this edition and to not come in turn 1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostrael Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Does anything speak against playing two Ravenwing Strike Force detachments? First detachment contains what I want on the table in the first turn and second contains Flyers and stuff that outflanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian_F_H Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 It still doesn't change the fact that you need special permission to play what is an entirely fluffy game. Heck there should be a way for all loyalist and heretical forces to launch a full Teleport terminator army with varying degrees of success imo. It should be high risk high reward, not entirely disallowed raw... And btw I'm saying this as someone who has never played da, and only have the dv set just cus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Well it is quite a raw deal when most armies have a DS "Alpha" strike formation... Even C:SM does a first turn full DS formation.... It does hurt that the designers TOOK IT AWAY FROM US (yet one more thing stolen) and gave it to the Smurfs.However this is still the "new" reality that never changes.... DA get *Pooped* upon.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbaeza94 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 I feel bad for all the dw purist honestly. DW always been my favorite wing, in 6th, when I started playing I wanted a dw army, but never made one. Seeing you guys not being able to purely play your favorite army, is a shame. I however enjoy the the new faq. Dw has always been my support. 2 squads with an interrogator deepstriking to eliminate those threats, it's almost always worked. Now when I play my lions blade, I get that landraider, for my vets. Like my old days. It's not always what we want, but make the best of what we have :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJB Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Forgive my ignorance, but what (or who) is a KDK? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerociousBeast Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 In short, it misses the point and destroys the theme for those who got into Deathwing for Deathwing - DW and RW are for many veterans armies of their own, mixing them with anything but perhaps eachother is like spending years building a lovingly painted fluffy Chaos army and then getting suggestions to include Centurions painted as Ultramarines to make the army more viable. Then there are more meta reasons and gameplay reasons but the first sentence will sum it up for most Deathwing players - I hope someone not writing from a mobile can elaborate if they wish. One word: Unbound Two more words: Friendly game Three words: no Deathwing Assault "Destroys the theme for those who play Deathwing for Deathwing" and apparently Deathwing Assault. Look, you want to play pure Deathwing? Go for it. Unbound. You want to use Deathwing Assault with pure Deathwing? Sure, play a friendly game. Give your opponent a hundred points or something to compensate. If you want to play pure Deathwing with Deathwing Assault in a tournament? Well I guess you're out of luck... but you would've been the only fluff purist there anyway, and GW's FAQ ruling is sparing you the humiliation of coming in last at the tournament with a fluffy list that falls hard to all the death star lists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426508 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin_cse Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 In short, it misses the point and destroys the theme for those who got into Deathwing for Deathwing - DW and RW are for many veterans armies of their own, mixing them with anything but perhaps eachother is like spending years building a lovingly painted fluffy Chaos army and then getting suggestions to include Centurions painted as Ultramarines to make the army more viable. Then there are more meta reasons and gameplay reasons but the first sentence will sum it up for most Deathwing players - I hope someone not writing from a mobile can elaborate if they wish. One word: Unbound Two more words: Friendly game Three words: no Deathwing Assault "Destroys the theme for those who play Deathwing for Deathwing" and apparently Deathwing Assault. Look, you want to play pure Deathwing? Go for it. Unbound. You want to use Deathwing Assault with pure Deathwing? Sure, play a friendly game. Give your opponent a hundred points or something to compensate. If you want to play pure Deathwing with Deathwing Assault in a tournament? Well I guess you're out of luck... but you would've been the only fluff purist there anyway, and GW's FAQ ruling is sparing you the humiliation of coming in last at the tournament with a fluffy list that falls hard to all the death star lists. Exactly. The cases where an opponent would throw a fit over a small change like this, ESPECIALLY for fluff reasons, would likely only be in a competitive environment, and in that case one probably wouldn't want to take a force of all terminators anyways outside of Grey Knights. Plus unbound seems to be way more accepted lately so again don't really see a problem. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnerBeta Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Well you're both narrow minded... RWAS (first turn) 4 different (edit: 12" range) DS homers (and Grav) for the DWRF Yes fine, the glass is half empty and "Pure" has gone away... but the glass is half full too and its a nice 18y/o single malt (or beverage of your choice.) Use the detachments... You can run any number of formations/detachments in normal games and most TO's will allow two... None of the above is more than two..... First, there's no reason to be calling someone narrow-minded because they want to play a pure Deathwing army.Second, the solution to not being able to play a pure Deathwing army is obviously not to play a pure Deathwing army. Adding anything to it, by definition, makes it not a pure Deathwing army. I don't think that's news to anyone. Okay, first. Why would you still want to play a "pure" DW army?... Now I say that with 4500 points of DW sitting in my closet. It is hard to play pure and stay competitive and has only gotten worse with Grav....Second, Well if you see the solution then why are you (in the you as a group not you specifically) still whining about something that has been obvious for not one but TWO codexes?.... Look at what we can do now to wreck face instead of what we have lost. Adapt or die and all that. Its the same song I have been hearing since 3rd completely revamped 40k. Lo there was much gnashing of teeth and ripping off of power fists from assault squads and tac.... Some tactics, rules and characters just go away.. (no! You cannot have my Namaan or Bethor). Please read my earlier post and reconsider your statement.I have. As one of the aforementioned "Purists" you referenced in your post above (and the 4500pts in the closet as proof.) Do none of you other "Purists" not have even ONE bike squadron lying around? Not even a DV set?.... I had a full squadron and a half collected over the 15ish years between my first mini and the advent of "formations". Painting them at the start of 6th got me back into the game. (and a DV set and the DV/DS and the plane kit...) Apologies if I offend. I did not intend to, just was trying to shake the moribund out of their rut. Sometimes holding a mirror up is painful. I do have Ravenwing, yes. Sadly you're still missing the point that was being made about denying people the right to play their fluff based armies they played for years and are being patronizing about it. Please take your head out of your ass and stop making back handed, condescending apologies. I am sorry for being impolite but such comments are not acceptable to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 The amount of saltiness is choking. Nothing has been lost, people, and expecting an FAQ to give us something we didn't have anyways was not only naive, it was downright foolish. As has been pointed out, there are plenty of ways of getting to play pure DW, you just can't do it at a tournament. Are people everywhere really so stuck up they can't abide by Unbound or asking their opponent for permission to ignore a rule for a bit of fun? If you've got regular opponents, it really shouldn't be that hard. No reason to make a mountain of a molehill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Three people (with several different methods) have pointed out that you are not being FORCED to abandon a "fluffy" army and you still insist you are being forced. I think I am not the one with cranial rectumitus. And if you are reading my tone in the quoted post as patonizing, that is a problem with the way you read because I wrote it sincerely. (Now however, read with a lot of snark) Quite frankly you are being insulting now because you have thown the lolly out of the pram. The truth is that the fluff has NEVER been represented correctly in the rules. The truth is that Black and Tan lists are JUST AS FLUFFY as "pure". The truth is that this is the new reality and if you cannot adapt to it, then sell your army and leave the hobby because you are no true son of the Lion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 If anything, Mixwing is the purest, fluffwise. RW find the traitors, DW are then called in to purge the site. That has been a red thread through the fluff all the way back to 2nd edition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 +++Guys! Be NICE! Failing that be constructive.+++ Carry on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabbala Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Forgive my ignorance, but what (or who) is a KDK? As your question got buried/ignored, KDK is Khorne Daemonkin. For me, this FAQ and the others, have only had a few answers of interests. Some of the questions are simply answered by reading the rules and addressing more wish listing than anything. But as it's been said, having a conversation with your opponent is always a start if you want to do something. I've been playing DA since early 4th, have a complete 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Companies, the DA have the tools, you just have to play to their strengths. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnerBeta Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Three people (with several different methods) have pointed out that you are not being FORCED to abandon a "fluffy" army and you still insist you are being forced. I think I am not the one with cranial rectumitus. And if you are reading my tone in the quoted post as patonizing, that is a problem with the way you read because I wrote it sincerely. Quite frankly you are being insulting now because you have thown the lolly out of the pram. The truth is that the fluff has NEVER been represented correctly in the rules. The truth is that Black and Tan lists are JUST AS FLUFFY as "pure"... Not only does unbound removes various canonical abilities of Deathwing removing the fluff as mentioned earlier it's not accepted in many places and tournaments - "it's ok where I live so there is no issue and people who are actually experience an issues should not complain" mindset is basically the approach. And I'm sorry to break it to you but if you write a patronizing message saying others are narrow-minded and two people point out this issue please don't write another message chastazing others on how they are reading it wrong because you're proving them right. EDIT: " The truth is that this is the new reality and if you cannot adapt to it, then sell your army and leave the hobby because you are no true son of the Lion. " And you're seriously claiming you're not patronizing and condescending ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 +++SinnerBeta, No more retaliations, just discuss the topic. That. is. all.+++ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Raeven Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 No real suprises with the FAQ, but I'm satisfied that the issue with the deepstriking Landraider is finally solved. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
twopounder Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Its about what I expected it would be. Kinda sad there wasn't an update to librarious conclave, but that is hoping for a lot. It answers some critical questions, misses others. As for deathwing, an all tda force isn't viable in anything other than a friendly game anyway. If you want to run it in a tourney, you lose by turn 3. I'd use it to drop 2 units of knights anywhere I want, any turn I want, without scattering. Or a couple heavy flamers. I've got the entire first company on my shelf, so I've got options. Also, its possible for another DW formation to release when they want to move more terminators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Raeven Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Also, its possible for another DW formation to release when they want to move more terminators. I'll be waiting for that one. Terminators in general could use an update. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingDeth Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 In general if I wanted to run a purr DW army I'd use our previous codex, it works a little better. That solution obviously won't work for everyone, especially those in competitive environments, but if you're being competitive pure DW would be a death sentence even if you could run it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherthefallenangel Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Well I'm happy they cleared up the shrouded + stealth argument for the RWSS. Had a laugh at some of the questions. I swear a lot of them were a joke. Did people actually think that when the demi-company hq requires either the company master or a chaplain that somehow that ment an interrogator chaplain was an option? Lol. Oh my fave was the company master doesn't have the option to take a bike. Can I take him with a bike? Really people? Lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I have a question about that, why can't you take a company master on a bike? And is interrogator chaplins just more specialized and therefore less likely to lead a Demi company than a regular Chaplin? They are the guys who like cutting on people instead of inspiring their men to greatness right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Kinda disappointing, if only because I played most of, if not all of these rules as the faq states them. Poor DW players. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323399-new-draft-faq/page/2/#findComment-4426708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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